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Aren't online mixes stolen music?
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EYB
Noized
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Posted : Dec 7, 2005 13:13
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This is the same for mp3 groups.
So they are also good people?
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KakoOlalaJwal
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 7, 2005 13:39
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Well in my opinion it's not if they are good people or not, it's about what the "simple" listener do with the music he has downloaded..
If he buys some stuff he enjoyed, then they did right.. don't you agree ?
If he doesn't care at all, well.. honnestly, are they responsible of that ?
I wonder..
But we're getting far from online mixes now..
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"Get your dose of BoOgie !"
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aje
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 7, 2005 14:47
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On 2005-12-07 13:13, EYB wrote:
This is the same for mp3 groups.
So they are also good people?
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Yes, everyone is good people, dont you read the bible, my son?
"He who is without sin cast the first stone" spoke our savior Jesus Christ, who are you to judge the poor lost souls of the MP3 groups? I am sure you have partaken in some immoral activity, you are not any better than they are.
Get off your high horse EYB, the LORD knows all your sins, he knows ALL the content of your harddrive. What do you think the poor Sheep feel like when when they are not properly fed, just because you did not pay for "Sheep Sluts 3" and illegally downloaded it? You were to embarassed to pick it up in person at the store? You didnt want your girlfriend to see the credit card receipt?
Wait until the End of Days, and the LORD will pass judgement on you just like you pass judgement on the poor MP3 groups. And beware, the LORDS judgement will be merciless!!!! 
Check out my album: http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/gay-satanic-hippie-tiefenrausch |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
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2849
Posted : Dec 7, 2005 15:13
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On 2005-12-07 13:39, KakoOlalaJwal wrote:
Well in my opinion it's not if they are good people or not, it's about what the "simple" listener do with the music he has downloaded..
If he buys some stuff he enjoyed, then they did right.. don't you agree ?
If he doesn't care at all, well.. honnestly, are they responsible of that ?
I wonder..
But we're getting far from online mixes now..
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Good point. In the end the decision and resposibly is on the listeners site. And it is also written down in all releases 'buy this if u like it, support the artist'. So we should do it this way and i think it is the best promotion for artists at the moment.
@aje hehe, i am no white sheep, my friend. I didn't write anything against mp3 groups in this threat. just some thoughts about downloadable mixes and mp3s. I don't judge anyone here.
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Forest dreams
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 7, 2005 15:25
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On 2005-12-07 13:39, KakoOlalaJwal wrote:
it's about what the "simple" listener do with the music he has downloaded..
If he buys some stuff he enjoyed, then they did right.. don't you agree ?
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well i kinda agree with whats being said here, but what does a simple listener mean?
well, what do you think a simple listener would have on his mind before downloading a mix?
i,for instance mostly prefer downloading a mix, when i know atleast a few/most tracks in the track list of the mix-set coz it gets easier to give a judgement of how well the track were mixed n stuff.
well....what im tryin to say is,that isnt an uploaded mix online more about the person whos posted it than about the artist whose tracks are being used(coz mostly we know the artist/tracks)
ofcoarse if an unheard track comes by....then for sure its promotion of the compilation n artist, one might go ahead n order a cd given the right link.
Nothing is said that has not been said before. |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 7, 2005 15:43
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On 2005-12-07 15:25, Forest dreams wrote:
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On 2005-12-07 13:39, KakoOlalaJwal wrote:
it's about what the "simple" listener do with the music he has downloaded..
If he buys some stuff he enjoyed, then they did right.. don't you agree ?
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well i kinda agree with whats being said here, but what does a simple listener mean?
well, what do you think a simple listener would have on his mind before downloading a mix?
i,for instance mostly prefer downloading a mix, when i know atleast a few/most tracks in the track list of the mix-set coz it gets easier to give a judgement of how well the track were mixed n stuff.
well....what im tryin to say is,that isnt an uploaded mix online more about the person whos posted it than about the artist whose tracks are being used(coz mostly we know the artist/tracks)
ofcoarse if an unheard track comes by....then for sure its promotion of the compilation n artist, one might go ahead n order a cd given the right link.
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Lets add some practical real life experiences into this debate.
Recently I had the pleasure of getting one of my sets broadcasted on di.fm - therefore I was in a forum thread about the broadcast chatting with the listeners.
Read this thread, and you will see how I relate to promoting artists, labels and such in conjunction with presenting a dj set.
http://forums.di.fm/archive/index.php/t-92602.html
You will see I praise the artists, the labels and so forth. Only thing I do not do is give psyshop or saikosound links since I want to be fair to all of them in that situation.
Best Wishes
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Dec 7, 2005 16:49
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Basically I think there is no black and white answer here.
I think no one denies that DJ mixes is good promotion a lot of the time.
And most people seem to realise that mp3 downloads also generates sales.
But most people seem to also agree on that mp3 downloads does not only work to find out about music to buy, but also as a replacement for buying.
For sure DJ mixes can have that effect as well, although possibly to a lesser extent.
But for a lot of people that just like to listen to some trance at home sometime and is not collectors, free downloadable mixes is very appealing compared to buying CD's.
So the question is not really if it's good or bad for the sales for the artists, because it's both.
The question is if it's mostly good or mostly bad.
I would say that both P2P and DJ mixes is mostly good for promotion.
Without having trance accessible by other means than the records store it would not have the global spread that it does.
The amount of Russians, Indians and south americans that listen to trance would be very marginal compared to what it is now.
I would say in that respect P2P have done more than downloadable DJ mixes.
And I can see what Forest dreams is saying.
There is no denying that DJ mixes can be promotion for artists, but it also goes both ways.
For me personally it's usually the tracklist that make me check out a mix, not the other way around.
So what we really have is what seems like a win-win situation. The artists get promotion from the DJ and the DJ from the artists.
The only one possibly loosing some from it would be the artists and the labels because some people will who suffice with freely downloadable mixes instead of being forced to instead by the CD's.
For the DJ I can't see a risk that people download his mixes and he don't get bookings because his downloadable mixes is played on the parties instead.
In the end therefore the decision has to be the artists, or in effect the labels.
But I do think it's a shame that it's so rare with licenses that are a bit more permissive and accept the fact that trance needs to have channels to make the music reach out to people.
In the mainstream music industry you have to bribe radio stations and shops and put a lot of effort into getting the music heard before you get people to buy it.
Sure there is a system in place where the stations pay for playing the material as well, and a distribution that make it possible for me to buy a CD when I go to buy food in the local shopping mall.
In this scene there is not systems like that in place.
We simply can't rely on royalty organisations to collect the money in a way that is fair for a tiny scene like this, and unless you know where to look you don't get exposed to trance for sale.
So I think we should be grateful that the licenses the lables stipulate is repeatedly disregarded by fans, DJ's and release groups, otherwise this scene would be very small indeed and live gigs pretty much non-existent.
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 7, 2005 17:59
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Everyone benefits from online mixes. Artists, labels, and the DJs themselves all receive exposure. Fans get some free music and find out about new stuff they might otherwise have missed out on.
I would argue that DJs buy the most psytrance and therefore support the scene the most. Mixes are how DJs get their sound out there and are often a prerequisite for finding gigs. The DJ who applies his or herself and starts to play out regularly becomes a steady customer at the shops, fueling the industry as a whole. Everyone benefits.
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Forest dreams
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 8, 2005 21:44
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On 2005-12-07 16:49, Spindrift wrote:
I would say that both P2P and DJ mixes is mostly good for promotion.
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tottally agree. i have been introduced to a lot of great artists thru p2p n mixes, prolly wouldnt have known of other wise,espeacially when ure down here in india...very very few people around you share your music tastes!
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On 2005-12-07 16:49, Spindrift wrote:
So I think we should be grateful that the licenses the lables stipulate is repeatedly disregarded by fans, DJ's and release groups, otherwise this scene would be very small indeed and live gigs pretty much non-existent.
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indeed 
@krell surely get ure point. and that set mustve been fun!
...i guess dj's posting mixes online should make it as musically personal as possible with thier listeners...so that it'l be more or less advantagoeus for everyone involved!
Nothing is said that has not been said before. |
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robomarket
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 9, 2005 03:26
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There is nothing sweeter than finding out that somewhere on the internet there is a recorded set from a party you have attended.
Is that same as the mix concept? Sure it is. If somebody deems it illegal i would laugh untill i cry.
According to the law mixes might be illegal("might be" because i don't know how far the law goes in terms of mixes) but it would be a shame of somebody gets punished for sharing or distributing mixes or sets.
Let's also not forget that there is a HUGE difference between a mix done by some DJ and a mix CD that is copywrited. And there is even a greater difference between a mix and a full lenght CD Album melted into a single file mix.
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colon
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Posted : Dec 9, 2005 18:09
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i guess it may depend on the laws of the country in question but in belgium the local department of the IFPI actually has been going after dj's who put mixes online, warning them they could get prosecuted if they didn't take them offline
they consider mixes to be a 'collage' of individual audiovisiual works that are copyrighted, which means you need to pay a fee for those |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 9, 2005 19:36
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On 2005-12-09 18:09, colon wrote:
i guess it may depend on the laws of the country in question but in belgium the local department of the IFPI actually has been going after dj's who put mixes online, warning them they could get prosecuted if they didn't take them offline
they consider mixes to be a 'collage' of individual audiovisiual works that are copyrighted, which means you need to pay a fee for those
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Exactly, thats what its like here as well.
Its illegal. Enforcing the law however often depends on it being feasible for who ever is hurt by the crime committed OR if someone stands to gain from the prosecution of the offenses.
I think any psytrance label would commit PR suicide if they started a witch hunt on anyone using the law.
The law doesnt dictate what is right or wrong - it just says what is legal and illegal.
Whats positive and negative in its effect is what dictates whats right or wrong in my world.
If I apply my thinking in regards to what has a positive & negative effect in our culture - then illegal distribution of music (in every form)is not negative (meaning I agree with what Spindrift wrote earlier).
I think its really a waste of time focusing on it when there are the more pressing problematic issues of drug use & the overall security at events (people loosing their lives or getting hurt in one way or the other).
Best Wishes
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Sid/OoRjA
Started Topics :
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104
Posted : Dec 10, 2005 12:53
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well its kinda contradicting...few say posting online mixes helps in promoting artists and generating sales and few say its in a way piracy..
i guess wat we need here is that the industry should come up with some guidelines and bylaws which is even and help promoting sales of originals and at the same time limiting ways which encourage piracy..
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 11, 2005 06:21
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On 2005-12-10 12:53, " pseudonymous " wrote:
well its kinda contradicting...few say posting online mixes helps in promoting artists and generating sales and few say its in a way piracy..
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The one doesnt exclude the other...
Meaning, it IS piracy (no doubt about it), and it DOES help promote artists, labels etc.
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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