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Acidance's latest cover issue
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DWH
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
52
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 22:38
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I looked at those picture now, and I can't see what's the fucking fuzz is about.. For sure it looks like a bunch of vegan-al-qaida-extreme-left-protestorfucks from the middle east with their ak47's and stuff, but nothing else that really discusted me.
You wimps are fucking lucky not to know Henrik Björkk. |
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floatyhippyflower
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
538
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 23:18
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On 2006-02-01 19:45, Evil Fucker wrote:
So, Do you watch Horror movies and read Horror books ?
If yes, why? Why do you read them ? or see them
Are you also disgusted by them ? they contain blood and other brutal stuff don’t they !?
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Difference is these are real pictures of real people suffering or dead as a result of real events, not images of horror you know in advance aren't actually happening. I'm not pro-censorship by any stretch of the imagination but I am pro-choice. And I'll tell you a true story of something this thread reminded me of that might demonstrate what I'm getting at.
When I was in my early twenties a rather horrible person I used to know showed me and my then boyfriend a movie. He was a film student who was interested in special effects and he told me before we all sat down to it that it was 'just' a horror flick, but one that had been banned for how realistic it was. The resolution of the video itself was very ropey and I assumed it was copied as a result. Anyway I sat for an hour and watched a young girl get her limbs cut off one by one before finally being decapitated. I could hardly bear to watch and spent much of it hiding behind my hands. I later found out it was a real snuff movie and the girl in the video had died before my eyes.
It took me and my boyfriend weeks to get over that; we both felt stupid and guilty for having believed it was just a horror film and the difference in my attitude towards my viewing it was very much different knowing it happened in real life. I didn't stay in touch with the guy long after the that but I still think about it nearly ten years later.
The point I'm trying to make here is that whatever "message" is being promoted by the release of this CD if any, the fact that it includes these images without a suitable level of warning means some people, who maybe don't already know of it's contents, have no choice but to view pictures of disturbing, real life events that they would otherwise choose not to see. I would think that a parental advisory sticker in the corner isn't really enough for some of the things being described here.
I understand what you say mist and I have no reason to suspect your motives were other than genuine. However I'd be interested to know if you are trying to make a statement about some of the world's ills, if any of the proceeds for this album are going to relevant charities connect with the events you depict? Were any of the families of the victims asked if it was OK to use such images of their loved ones? (I ask because I know I would be devastated if someone used pictures of someone I loved in that way, or even pictures of my own death for anything other than medical/research purposes, especially without my permission.) Do you campaign for the issues you are highlighting with your artwork in any other, external way? Or have personal experience of such events that might authenticate your message? Otherwise, with all due respect, I'm inclined to think the primary reason behind your inclusion of the photos was one of raising awareness for your new release, not awareness of the crimes themselves, by causing this kind of controversy. Clearly you're not stupid so you'll have been aware when agreeing to the contents that more people are likely to buy it just to see what the fuss is all about, like the curiosity people seem to feel when driving past a car accident for example.
Perhaps I'm wrong and just feeling a little cynical today though.
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Surrender
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
506
Posts :
5388
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 23:23
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offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
928
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 23:43
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On 2006-02-01 20:00, mist wrote:
so, one can only protest through rock music, and never psy music? we must continue to be the blind man? you can only have happy happy drug drug in your psy? i say, make your voice heard however you can best express it.
the images contained within the cd were supposed to be shocking. are they supposed to be enjoyed? i would hope not. they were created to cause a reaction, to get you to feel something. if you are feeling disgust, that's better than feeling nothing at all. and disgust is what should be felt. this world we live in, it needs some serious fixing. how long to do wish to continue wearing rose colored glasses, and ignore what happens all around us? you think by ignoring the atroicities, they will go away? only when people, good people, stand up for what they believe in can we even begin to make a difference, to begin to make small changes, to try and make this world a better place. this compilation was one of our ways to make a stand, to make our voice heard, to say "hey, wake up! things are wrong and these problems need to be addressed!". it is an anti-war message. we are not advocating violence, but decrying it. i see some people receive this message, and others are too caught up in the viseral experience.
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Hi Mist 
I think the intentions were good, but the semantics from the design were not clear enough. Specially since there has been releases no long ago like Hate Ppl just did not know how to take it, hence all this pages of outcry. |
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Acidhive
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
76
Posts :
2014
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 23:48
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On 2006-02-01 20:00, mist wrote:
so, one can only protest through rock music, and never psy music? we must continue to be the blind man? you can only have happy happy drug drug in your psy? i say, make your voice heard however you can best express it.
the images contained within the cd were supposed to be shocking. are they supposed to be enjoyed? i would hope not. they were created to cause a reaction, to get you to feel something. if you are feeling disgust, that's better than feeling nothing at all. and disgust is what should be felt. this world we live in, it needs some serious fixing. how long to do wish to continue wearing rose colored glasses, and ignore what happens all around us? you think by ignoring the atroicities, they will go away? only when people, good people, stand up for what they believe in can we even begin to make a difference, to begin to make small changes, to try and make this world a better place. this compilation was one of our ways to make a stand, to make our voice heard, to say "hey, wake up! things are wrong and these problems need to be addressed!". it is an anti-war message. we are not advocating violence, but decrying it. i see some people receive this message, and others are too caught up in the viseral experience.
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I basically said the same, but no one is listening ... 
 "Subconscious unravels at the point of death, and all time it has known erupts into a moment. As death extinguishes us, so we become it."
[Esoteric: Subconscious Dissolution Into The Continuum] |
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mist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
68
Posts :
642
Posted : Feb 1, 2006 23:59
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hello, rina - thank you for your post.
i will try to answer as best as i can....
the first thing that must be understood is that i am one of a team of people, and that i did not work with the graphic artist on this particular release. i was on vacation the end of last year, and actually didn't see the finished product until it arrived at my door. however, i am proud of what the label accomplished with this one. i think it brings our releases to a whole new level.... is it graphic? definately. is it thought provoking? hopefully. does it get the message across? i think so. i think that the design of the comp and it's artwork go hand in hand with the tracks and the message behind this release, which of course has been discussed here.
now, as for my personal involvement in working to make the world a better place, i haven't done anything as drastic as fight a war, as i am above all a pacifist. however, i have spent a deal of time campaigning against bush here in the states, going to a protest or few, and i was even deputized this past election term so that i could register people to vote. so, i did my best to take action in this peacefull way. my wife and i also regularly donate to environmental charities.
regarding other aspects/questions of your post, i would have to let someone else take the reigns and answer on those. however, you can trust me when i say that our message is genuine.
Are you connected to yourself?
http://soundcloud.com/justincaseboy |
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Weird guy in a pink hat
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
172
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 00:09
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On 2006-02-01 23:59, mist wrote:
hello, rina - thank you for your post.
i will try to answer as best as i can....
the first thing that must be understood is that i am one of a team of people, and that i did not work with the graphic artist on this particular release. i was on vacation the end of last year, and actually didn't see the finished product until it arrived at my door. however, i am proud of what the label accomplished with this one. i think it brings our releases to a whole new level.... is it graphic? definately. is it thought provoking? hopefully. does it get the message across? i think so. i think that the design of the comp and it's artwork go hand in hand with the tracks and the message behind this release, which of course has been discussed here.
now, as for my personal involvement in working to make the world a better place, i haven't done anything as drastic as fight a war, as i am above all a pacifist. however, i have spent a deal of time campaigning against bush here in the states, going to a protest or few, and i was even deputized this past election term so that i could register people to vote. so, i did my best to take action in this peacefull way. my wife and i also regularly donate to environmental charities.
regarding other aspects/questions of your post, i would have to let someone else take the reigns and answer on those. however, you can trust me when i say that our message is genuine.
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Therapy... FAST!!!
We're talking about pictures of corpses of children that came with the CD...
Who am I to judge but there has to be more dellicate way to bring out a "message"...
As far as people know, corpses are a bad sign and if those pictures associates with the cd it cant be good...
Actually those are the kind of things that people who love this music are called freaks.
{0_o}-{0_o}-{0_o}-{0_o}-{0_o}-{0_o}-{0_o}-{0_o}-{0_o}-{0_o}-{0_o}-{0_o}- |
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mist
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
68
Posts :
642
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 00:23
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oh, and since i'm talking about my personal life and need therapy and such there is one more thing i need to get off my chest.
i am psynina.
there. i said it.
wow, that's a load off of my shoulders.
Are you connected to yourself?
http://soundcloud.com/justincaseboy |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 00:29
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Damn i i´ve read half this damn topic and a conclusion to this so far is to Put the label that says
"Parental advisory explicit lyrics/ Pictures"
Because there might be kids that buy the cd and we DO need to protect them , since children are our most precious resource,,, besides petroleum
Can someone contact "National Parent Teacher Association" and the Parents Music Resource Center, so all the labels can put a sticker on the cover.
I mean we DO need to protect children like June.
COME ON PPL we need to get started now, think about what will or can happen, they see theese pictures and try to imitate them.
Can someone contact "National Parent Teacher Association" and the Parents Music Resource Center, so all the labels can put a sticker on the cover.
I mean we DO need to protect children like June |
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Justin Chaos
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
117
Posts :
3086
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 00:35
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On 2006-02-01 23:18, floatyhippyflower other However I'd be interested to know if you are trying to make a statement about some of the world's ills, if any of the proceeds for this album are going to relevant charities connect with the events you depict? Were any of the families of the victims asked if it was OK to use such images of their loved ones? (I ask because I know I would be devastated if someone used pictures of someone I loved in that way, or even pictures of my own death for anything other than medical/research purposes, especially without my permission.) Do you campaign for the issues you are highlighting with your artwork in any other, external way? Or have personal experience of such events that might authenticate your message? Otherwise, with all due respect, I'm inclined to think the primary reason behind your inclusion of the photos was one of raising awareness for your new release, not awareness of the crimes themselves, by causing this kind of controversy. Clearly you're not stupid so you'll have been aware when agreeing to the contents that more people are likely to buy it just to see what the fuss is all about, like the curiosity people seem to feel when driving past a car accident for example.
Perhaps I'm wrong and just feeling a little cynical today though.
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You tell'em Rina!!!
I love you!!!
My fake plants died, because I did not pretend to water them. |
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Ott^
OTT
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
488
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 00:48
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Re: The topic - I haven't seen the cover and don't care either way.
Re: Floatyhippyflower - Brilliant post Rina. Go you. Etc.
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Nomolos(Zenon Rec.)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
2027
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 01:00
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Oran
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
1362
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 01:21
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i will just quote Pavel from another thread:
"Mirror mirror on the wall, who's the killest of them all?"
grow up kids!!!it's so sad to see where this scene is heading..
i also have to agree with CP (twice in two days)
tsk...tsk...tsk...not cool.
Always agressive never progressive. |
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woutski
Zen Mechanics
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
275
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 01:31
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Raising awareness...
Maybe it's me, but making 'hippies' aware of the fact that war is bad is kinda like preaching to the converted innit? |
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floatyhippyflower
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
538
Posted : Feb 2, 2006 01:36
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On 2006-02-01 23:59, mist wrote:
the first thing that must be understood is that i am one of a team of people, and that i did not work with the graphic artist on this particular release. i was on vacation the end of last year, and actually didn't see the finished product until it arrived at my door. however, i am proud of what the label accomplished with this one.
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I see. Interesting that you should start with a disclaimer about your own personal involvement, despite the fact you have previously been happy to answer on behalf of all involved.
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| i think it brings our releases to a whole new level.... is it graphic? definately. is it thought provoking? hopefully. |
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Included were pictures of dead babies. I'd say that was a given.
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| does it get the message across? i think so. |
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Do you? Read through the thread again mist; the fact that as many postees question your motives as defend them demonstrates quite clearly that this is not the case and your message hasn't come across to a large number of people for whom it was intended. (Sadly I fear that this will be counter-balanced sales-wise with some curious folk who probably wouldn't have bought the CD without knowing what was inside it, and will now go out and purchase it just for the controversial images.)
Of course, that's given the assumption your message ran deeper than any shallow attempt to shock people into debate. Either way, I see many holes in your argument that need addressing before I'll be convinced ether way. The truth is I don't see any evidence of a specific, clear message. What is it? What exactly are you campaigning for? Which people? For which cause? You say “anti-war”…Ok then, which one?
I mean, even if your motives are 100% genuine, they are still just that; your motives, your aims. Don't you think others have a right to decide what they want to see? To all those who say “don’t like it don’t buy it” – ordinarily I’d agree with you but in June’s case, she purchased the album for the music from a website and didn’t have any idea beforehand she’d see the photos in question. Do you think you have the right to subject people to real images of torture and death without their prior consent and an appropriate level of warning? I think it’s patronising to assume that it’s your duty to raise awareness - that people ‘need’ to see these things before they understand that they happen. (Especially within a scene that’s so full of fluffy, left-wing, socially ‘switched-on’ hippy-types, being totally honest about the targeted demographic here.) Would you subject unknowing participants to pictures of hard-core porn without their prior approval? Even in the name of art? Or a campaign? No, you wouldn’t because it’s a taste and decency thing, for which every person has different levels of acceptance, especially when we’re talking about such extremes. Come on, don’t tell me you don’t know that already, that you don’t know what I’m getting at.
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| i think that the design of the comp and it's artwork go hand in hand with the tracks and the message behind this release, which of course has been discussed here. |
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Again, would you be good enough to refresh my memory on what that actually is then? I would genuinely like to understand but despite all your words, I clearly must be missing something. Anti-war…yes I got that part…
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| now, as for my personal involvement in working to make the world a better place, i haven't done anything as drastic as fight a war, as i am above all a pacifist. however, i have spent a deal of time campaigning against bush here in the states, going to a protest or few, and i was even deputized this past election term so that i could register people to vote. so, i did my best to take action in this peacefull way. my wife and i also regularly donate to environmental charities. |
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That's all great stuff definitely. Keep up the good work, for sure!
However every one of my questions related to the release itself. Charities, proceeds, campaigning, protesting, permission from the families, any benefit the families might be receiving...these are all perfectly valid questions relating to your alleged message that you have chosen to overlook or redirect.
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| regarding other aspects/questions of your post, i would have to let someone else take the reigns and answer on those. |
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But my questions were directed at you, not anybody else, and to be fair you have only answered some of the more convenient ones, and not wholly satisfactorily at that (see above.)
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| however, you can trust me when i say that our message is genuine. |
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Can I?
With respect, I'll be the judge of who - and what - I can trust.
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