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Trance Forum  Forum  Production & Music Making - 432 Hz tuning: The Music of SUPERCONSCIOUSNESS
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432 Hz tuning: The Music of SUPERCONSCIOUSNESS

shamantrixx


Started Topics :  7
Posts :  549
Posted : Dec 18, 2006 07:29
My dear Colin!

Links I've gave you are here for a reason. If you take a look at them you'll find much more than one argument about why should we use 27 Hz. It's pointless that I waste my time translating my own toughts to english when you have a web site that covers this topic far better than I could ever do it. My post is only the intro for the topic. Provided links will give you all the explanations you could possibly want.

Site is also explainig about the 8 Hz mirroring effect. So please do me a faveour and read your "homework" on the subject before you make another paranoid statement. As you can see other users had no problem with understanding it so...

tnx!           "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"

Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity
shamantrixx


Started Topics :  7
Posts :  549
Posted : Dec 18, 2006 07:34
Quote:

On 2006-12-18 02:01, Terrafractyl wrote:

um i disagree with this though. I would Definatly know if a track was being mixed in that was 1/3 of a tone lower over a track in 440. it wouldn't sound very nice(to me)...

nonetheless this is a topic I have been interested in for a long time, I have often wondered if prehaps a better system than equal temperment exists... maybe there does after all



People who make music often can hear pitch changes less than 0.1, but the average partygoer can't hear such small changes. So I was talking about them... not about producers or musicians.

I'm sure that the problem of equal temperament can be managed... it's only a matter of finding out how to do it

          "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"

Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity
Trip-
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  101
Posts :  3239
Posted : Dec 18, 2006 12:35
- 144Hz would be D, instead of C.

Let's ask what is a Herz? A whole cycle of a wave in one second.
What is a second then? 1/60 of a minute or as it's definition - the fraction 1/31,556,925.9747 of the tropical year for 1900 January 0 at 12 hours ephemeris time?

As for our tuning issue,

Let's say A = 432.
This will mean the following octave of frequencies:

E = 432 x 3 / 2 = 324
B = 324 x 3 / 2 = 486
F# = 486 x 3 / 2 / 2 = 364.5
C# = 364.5 x 3 / 2 / 2 = 273.375
G# = 273.375 x 3 / 2 = 410.0625
D# = 410.0625 x 3 / 2 / 2 = 307.546875
A# = 307.546875 x 3 / 2 = 461.3203125
F = 461.3203125 x 3 / 2 = 345.990234375 (~346)
C = 346 x 3 / 2 / 2 = 259.5
G = 259.5 x 3 / 2 = 389.25
D = 389.25 x 3 / 2 / 2 = 291.9375
A = 291.9375 x 3 / 2 = 437.9

Let's say A = 440.
This will mean the following octave of frequencies(using opposite direction of division by 3):

D = 440 / 3 * 2 = 293.3333...
G = 293.3333... / 3 * 2 * 2 = 391.1111...
C = 391.1111... / 3 * 2 = 260.740740...
F = 260.740740... / 3 * 2 * 2 = 347.6543...
A# = 347.6543... / 3 * 2 * 2 = 463.539
D# = 463.539 / 3 * 2 = ~309
G# = 309 / 3 * 2 * 2 = 412
C# = 412 / 3 * 2 = 274.6666...
F# = 274.6666... / 3 * 2 * 2 = 366.2222...
B = 366.2222... / 3 * 2 * 2 = ~488
E = 488 / 3 * 2 = 325.3333...
A = 325.3333 / 3 * 2 * 2 = 433.777....

Notice the similar C notes, and notice the other notes - esspecially A.

So maybe the 3/2 way of doing these things is wrong...

Which tone is 1 Hz?

Why A should be 432Hz?

Let's bring this A to its first tone by dividing by 2 untill we reach a fraction point:

432 / 2 / 2 / 2 / 2 = 27

Should I use 3/2 method again?

to reach D I'll divide by 3:

27 / 3 = 9

to reach G I'll divide by 3 again:

9 / 3 = 3

to reach C I'll divide by 3 once again:

3 / 3 = 1

Does this mean C will be the tone of 1Hz?

And if D is 9Hz, then let's multiply it by 2 to reach a higher D tone:

9 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 = 288Hz

We want to reinvent the evenly tempered scale of tones? What frequncy table do you suggest we shall use with the 'new' 432Hz of A? I'd appreciate the input.           Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA
Trip-
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  101
Posts :  3239
Posted : Dec 18, 2006 14:58
another link:

http://www.earthmatrix.com/piano/octave.htm           Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
AgalactiA
shamantrixx


Started Topics :  7
Posts :  549
Posted : Dec 18, 2006 16:22
I've seen this page... it's an excelent studdy. Unfortunaly we're not trying to tune the piano or determine is 432 Hz an A or an F tone... Not that it doesn't matter but it doesnt help us with sequencers and plug ins.

By the way... I agree with this article. It's obvious that many people during the past have been pointing out that standard should be lowered to 432 Hz. But it seems that the western "culture" is based mostly on ignorance and cares only about thing that can be sold of goods that can be harvested and again sold.           "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"

Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity
0hz
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  261
Posted : Dec 19, 2006 02:51
http://www.mtvdance.com/philoscience/432page.html
NikC
BeatNik

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  601
Posted : Dec 19, 2006 03:39
Good post Trip.

I have two friends studying music at the Royal College here in England with absolute perfect pitch - both sing as well.

Never once have I heard them complain about 440 being an A

I have however, when I was playing in a concert with them, heard them complain about the Organ in Westminster abbey being tuned down by a quarter tone due to a slightly odd stop, and them finding it practically impossible to sing to.

I will tomorrow call them up and ask whether they prefer a 432 A to a 440 one... and I'm virtually 100% they won't.


It seems to me like it's another numerological excuse for pseudo-psychology babble.

In any case, the key to music which sound good is how each not is tempered...
Before the piano forte, harpsichords would be tempered to the scale - so you would have an insturment only able to play one major scale and its relative minor.

The notes on piano forte's nowadays are just averages of the notes which make them tempered for any key. A good or a bad thing depending on what your ears are like           www.myspace.com/beat_nik
piko_bianko
Oxya

Started Topics :  57
Posts :  974
Posted : Dec 19, 2006 04:31
interesting          extreme
Psynaesthesian
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  30
Posts :  557
Posted : Dec 19, 2006 10:13
subscribed!!



B'om Shankara!!!           "... b'om ..."
shamantrixx


Started Topics :  7
Posts :  549
Posted : Dec 19, 2006 15:15
Quote:

On 2006-12-19 03:39, NikC wrote:
I have two friends studying music at the Royal College here in England with absolute perfect pitch - both sing as well.

Never once have I heard them complain about 440 being an A
I will tomorrow call them up and ask whether they prefer a 432 A to a 440 one... and I'm virtually 100% they won't.



If they have "perfect pitch" they can't possibly hear the 440 Hz equal tempered scale. Why? Simply because it's not natural. So one can train to recognize equal tempered tones and 440 cycles per second, but person who was born with perfect pitch will hear the NATURAL (phytagorian) scales and will ask the band to tune down to 432 Hz. Almost all links that other users have posted also mention this fenomena.

You see, musical standards are invented by man and since they're not in accordance to the nature you can't be born with the skill to recognize that kind of musical standard without prior knowledge and training. So people with "perfect pich" will not agree with you. That's for sure. But once we're used to hear the equal tempered scale it's easy to train our ears and became (almost) "perfect pitch"... it's just a matter of practice.

Quote:

On 2006-12-19 03:39, NikC wrote:
It seems to me like it's another numerological excuse for pseudo-psychology babble.



To me it seems like you never bothered with reading some of the links. Otherwise you would not make this statement. Lot of experts, scientist, musicians and composers are pointing this up for more than a 100 years. Most of them had no contact with one another and have come to this conclusion just by following "perfect pitch".

Also in it's very description equal temperament scale has a calculation for shortening each interval for about in order to prevent spiraling of fifths and to provide a cyclic movement trough the scales. Since you're not the first one that wants to believe in 440 Hz here is a copy/paste of this description:

Middle C in equal temperament with A = 440 would be 440 * 2^(-3/4), which is about 261.6255653 cycles/second. At this pitch for middle C, the equal tempered fifth reduction would give a lowered frequency of 440*exp(-log(2)*0.75)/exp(log(3^12/2^19)/5) or about 260.9174659 cycles per second, which is a reduction of 440*exp(-log(2)*0.75) - 440*exp(-log(2)*0.75)/exp(log(3^12/2^19)/5) cycles/second, or about .708099372 cycles per second. So the tuner must aim for a beat of around 0.7 cycles per second.

It is interesting to note that the tempered fifth correction ((3^12/2^19)^(1/5)) is not a natural interval, although the Pythagorean comma (which is 5 times as large) is a natural interval, namely 3^12/2^19.

If all of the 12 fifths are shortened by the same amount, the result is equal tempered tuning, which is quite different to well-tempered tuning. For equal temperament, the shortening of the fifth must be (3^12/2^19)^(1/12), which is about 1.00112989. The equal temperament correction compared to a semitone is log((3^12/2^19)^(1/12))/log(16/15), which is about .017497345 of a semitone. That's about 1.75 cents, or 1.75% of a semitone. It is not a coincidence that this is exactly 5/12 of the correction (about 4.2%) for the well-tempered fifths.


Damn ignorance... that's how we got here in the first place
          "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"

Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity
shachar
Basic

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  402
Posted : Dec 20, 2006 11:48
yesterday i made just for fun a hip-hop beat but the bass sound kinda weird to me , so i tune the bass 31 cent down and suddenly it all sounded so fit to my ears!

Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  60
Posts :  3708
Posted : Dec 20, 2006 13:17
this is for sure a interesting topic!

shamantrixx


Started Topics :  7
Posts :  549
Posted : Dec 20, 2006 17:21
Quote:

On 2006-12-20 11:48, shachar wrote:
yesterday i made just for fun a hip-hop beat but the bass sound kinda weird to me , so i tune the bass 31 cent down and suddenly it all sounded so fit to my ears!



It's funny... the way we don't hear the obvious. It's like when you first get some linear monitors. Until that day your "sony-like-super-woofer" stereo system was just fine. But soon you realise that this "super-woofer" in fact makes a lot of noise and resonance that covers half of the music beneath that "woofing". In a matter of days you can no longer stand that woofing and you wonder how could you even consider it to be good at all

It's the same with 432 Hz tuning. Once you try it you'll find out how huge the difference is... In a matter of days you'll be able to hear that difference without looking into the analyser. And not only that... Once you try it... it will become a permanent basis of your work. It's not just the beauty of the sound, 'cause you can ignore that if you want to. This tuning is hardwared in our body... we all resonate on this frequency. Those who can will understand this, but we can all feel it           "It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"

Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity
Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  60
Posts :  3708
Posted : Dec 20, 2006 17:28
shamantrixx - you should become a pastor!

hehe

i will try this for sure, can you again tell me the procedure..

lets say i start with everything tuned to 440, some synths its possible to change this, like V-station, if im not wrong...

so i tune the synth to 432hz and those that dont have this universal tuning i have to detune manual? and from 440 down to 432 its 8hz, is that like 8 cents or is it 31 cents?
you notice i need to brush up my knowledge, hehe..

is it good practise to use something like Voxengo SPAN to find the right freq?

i think i must re-read this thread and check the links, lol sorry
psylevation
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  52
Posts :  841
Posted : Dec 21, 2006 04:48
Great information here, gave me chills when first reading it. I'm very interested in this and I'm going to try it out in the very next piece I work on.

I know I heard you complaining about sequencers set up how they are currently, being a major issue.

I'm not sure what would need to be done, but I bet if you contacted or began posting as a request, to the developer of energyXT, being that it's still in it's semi early development stages, may be able to implement something to fill the desired space.

He is very open to suggestions and new Ideas, if you can get the user base interested in this, then it will definitely be added at some point. The whole program is built on it's users.

He is finishing up version 2 right now, so new requests will have to wait until the full release. But don't forget, check it out. The program is going to surpass many others in many ways as I see it. Why not this way as well.
Trance Forum  Forum  Production & Music Making - 432 Hz tuning: The Music of SUPERCONSCIOUSNESS
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