consciousness
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Posted : Jan 28, 2011 06:09:26
Enjoy!
Don't forget to like and favorite! Spread the word! Make it viral!
XuN
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Posted : Jan 28, 2011 20:36
Watched it 3 times already... a MUST see for everyone www.xun.dk / myspace.com/xundk
!!PLUR!!
mk47
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Posted : Jan 30, 2011 12:51
boring
Kaz
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Posted : Jan 30, 2011 15:23
It's a shame this quasi-rationality gets mistaken for the real thing. Another load of garbage made to strike at the easily influenced wannabe intellectual crowd, just like the rest of the series.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222
consciousness
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Posted : Jan 31, 2011 00:06
Quote:
On 2011-01-30 15:23, Kaz wrote:
It's a shame this quasi-rationality gets mistaken for the real thing. Another load of garbage made to strike at the easily influenced wannabe intellectual crowd, just like the rest of the series.
If the application of the scientific method for social concern isn't rational I don't know what is...
What's "the real thing"? And what better system do you propose that is sustainable AND progressive? World peace and abundance for all or I won't hear it!
mk47
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Posted : Jan 31, 2011 05:37
he`s right man , this is a load of bullshit , there were many lulz all thru the movie but i don't have the time or the inclination to do a rewatch and rip it apart again as i did in realtime , yup .. rubbish
consciousness
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Posted : Jan 31, 2011 07:36
Already 1,309,950 views!
Aluxe
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Posted : Jan 31, 2011 07:45
Quote:
On 2011-01-31 05:37, mk47 wrote:
he`s right man , this is a load of bullshit , there were many lulz all thru the movie but i don't have the time or the inclination to do a rewatch and rip it apart again as i did in realtime , yup .. rubbish
They actually touch on a lot of very interesting points throughout the movie. Its not without flaws and kind of boring (will have to watch some of it again since I fell asleep).
But to dismiss the entire thing as rubbish clearly speaks more about the critic than the movie itself. At least point to some specifics, cuz there are a lot of ideas presented in the movie.
mk47
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Posted : Jan 31, 2011 07:55
no , i mean , sure , they trying to say good things , be nice , don't be greedy , take care of the planet bla , im with ya there , but the pseudo intellectual ominous voice talking about the monetary system ... soo full of flaws , but like i said , no time or inclination to do a point by point dissection , the target audience for this one is clearly uneducated (about economics) disenfranchised , gullible folk , no more credible than this guy
Pavel
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Posted : Jan 31, 2011 14:42
Everyone in the world is doing something without me
mk47
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Posted : Jan 31, 2011 15:27
consciousness
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Posted : Jan 31, 2011 20:43
Kaz
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Posted : Jan 31, 2011 22:43
Quote:
On 2011-01-31 00:06, consciousness wrote:
Quote:
On 2011-01-30 15:23, Kaz wrote:
It's a shame this quasi-rationality gets mistaken for the real thing. Another load of garbage made to strike at the easily influenced wannabe intellectual crowd, just like the rest of the series.
If the application of the scientific method for social concern isn't rational I don't know what is...
What's "the real thing"? And what better system do you propose that is sustainable AND progressive? World peace and abundance for all or I won't hear it!
I'll stay away from nitpicking. Screw all the small points. Here is a long, well thought out explanation, which I doubt you will accept, because it shows the underlying logic behind the entire movie as irrelevant, aiming at people who want to be skeptic but can't apply skepticism without being told what to be skeptic about.
Application of the scientific method requires creating a thesis, testing it extensively, seeing how it fits into the larger models which it intends to detail, and give a compelling explanation. After all that, scrutiny of international academic community is a necessary validation. None of these have been done with any depth. The explanations are shallow, and without context. The result is therefor, according to scientific methodology, meaningless. So what this movie actually is, would be philosophy.
The modern market system, capitalism etc, is flawed. It is easy to point out the flaws. A deep understanding of the power of the abstractions used in it (while carefully ignoring their immense benefits), can show some of the glaring inconsistencies. The facts pointed out so well, that the cutting edge of technology is years ahead of consumer products, that there is a huge gap between the poor and the rich, and so on - are just bi-products. The fact is that while you can say that the market system enforces slavery, keeps the cutting edge out of the mainstream, destroys the environment, keeps the power in the hands of a few people, etc. I will not bother arguing these points.
Despite ignoring all the good the current system does, let's just accept this as the basis of the philosophical discussion.
Let's say everyone today would just make a world-wide plan for a better system and adopt it. Would it improve the world? No doubt, and very easily. Can it be done? Of course. All it takes is a decision, nothing more.
It's also a decision to create world peace, stop arms development, make important drugs cheap and affordable to everyone, give everyone a high quality education, fix the environmental flaws, build better stuff. Would it improve the world? A whole lot. How long would it take? Much shorter than you think. Can it be done? Of course, all it takes is a decision.
But it won't. The basic flaw in Marxism was that it assumed that people would want to go along with a better system. It ignores human nature. The same reason we don't have world peace is the reason Zeitgeist is garbage, what Marx referred to as the poverty of philosophy.
Blaming the intrinsic human want of getting ahead on an economic system is retarded. It works the other way around. Humans are greedy, hence the world works the way it does. Not the world works the way it does, hence humans are greedy. Slavery existed before the world bank. Better technology was always in the hands of the powerful. Being rich was always awesome, and being poor always sucked. This goes back at least to the earliest records of humanity. To say that a change to the economic system would somehow change this fundamental piece of humanity is laughable.
So, let's say that Zeitgeist is not about science OR philosophy. I'll be a large man, and say, what Zeitgeist really wants to point out (in a really confused, round-about manner) that the current financial model in the world is that every man should work for himself and not give a crap about others (a short explanation of the "highest flexibility for localized solutions" system we use), and that is a pre-Nash model. It is mathematically proven as not the most efficient.
Surprisingly though, you can make a point that the Nash model (working together for a common cause while retaining individual incentives is a superior way of achieving goals) has been adopted more and more strongly in the past 50 years, if only you'd bother to check out the list of reforms in the financial sector in this time. If you look in political reforms in the most capitalist countries, you would see that this model is being largely adopted. It just happens slowly. Humanity changes at a snails pace.
But we can't have it any other way. This is not something invented in this movie, and this system won a Nobel prize for it's revolutionary brilliance. It's just taking us a long time to adopt it. Just as I pointed out before - humanity theoretically could solve all the big problems today. But it won't happen. Humans don't work that way. Zeitgeist is calling for a financial change that is already underway for decades.
So, scientifically, philosophically, and financially, the points of the movie are moot. Beyond that, collecting faults of the way things work and pointing them out does not create part of the solution. On the contrary, it is a symptom of the very flaws which cause the problems put in this movie. This is the intellectual equivalent of a kid who sucks at everything, but just points out why everything sucks. The system we have today is evolving towards something better, and is better than anything we have had in the past. The end goal is humanity working together for the common good. We're a long way away, but hey, humanity is not going to go forward any faster, so why bitch and moan?
consciousness
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Posted : Feb 2, 2011 05:34
Kaz,
Seems to me like you didn't pay any attention or you haven't actually seen "Zeitgeist: Moving forward".
Your "review" could just as well be about "Capitalism: A love story"...
"Zeitgeist: Moving forward" is all about the possibilities and solutions.
Humans are NOT born evil and the current system is not even sustainable. If you can't acknowledge this you're the one who's uninformed and/or won't think critically.
pr0fane
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Posted : Feb 2, 2011 09:47
Quote:
On 2011-02-02 05:34, consciousness wrote:
Humans are NOT born evil and the current system is not even sustainable. If you can't acknowledge this you're the one who's uninformed and/or won't think critically.
No, the system isn't sustainable in it's current state - but that's not a new thing, or something that the Zeitgeist movement has found out. This is a fact that has been clear for both politicians, economists, companies and people around the world for a while. Heck, "The Limits To Growth" (although not perfect) was published almost 30 years ago...DJ pr0fane (Iboga Records) | Multiphase
www.sunrisesupplies.com | www.iboga.dk | www.soundcloud.com/pr0fane
