Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Nov 10, 2010 14:56
I'll add some of my own thoughts to this software versus hardware debate.
There is no advantage to either soft or hard. The reason modern music sounds the same is that people want to sound like what they know because they consider it as good. So today it's possible - they just download the the softsynth the other guy used, and tweak some of the presets instead of making their own (because that's what the other guy did) and they end up with the same sound. It doesn't have to do anything with the method being software based. Well, it is - but only indirectly. The oldschool guys with the hardware had 2 major limitations:
1. They invented this sound, so they had noone to copy so they don't sound like anyone else.
2. They couldn't just "download" a synth. No one could get all synths, and there were no presets so they had to make new sounds on different synths, which obviously sounded different.
Point is - don't blame the software! Blame the user! Software just gives the possibility for artists to copy easily and be lazy (and we all do it, don't lie to yourself).
The solution is artist discipline - they (we) should force ourself to use just a few synths and learn it inside out and that's it.
That's what I did, got a few VSTis which I like (and for some reason they are not that popular among the psy community), payed for them, and printed the manual. Also got myself a Waldorf microQ (yea I know it's a va aka vst in a box, stfu). I'll limit myself to these and a few specific sound processing plugins (which I can afford). This way I will not use the pirated waves/urs stuff everyone uses and sound like everyone but find my own sound. Looks like it's working so far.
Anyway, bottom line - blame the users, not the system.
aXis
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
116
Posts :
2562
Posted : Nov 10, 2010 17:10
rubbish music in the vid.
garbage.
Xamanist
Xamanist
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
938
Posted : Nov 10, 2010 17:19
Quote:
On 2010-11-10 14:56, Mike A wrote:
I'll add some of my own thoughts to this software versus hardware debate.
There is no advantage to either soft or hard. The reason modern music sounds the same is that people want to sound like what they know because they consider it as good. So today it's possible - they just download the the softsynth the other guy used, and tweak some of the presets instead of making their own (because that's what the other guy did) and they end up with the same sound. It doesn't have to do anything with the method being software based. Well, it is - but only indirectly. The oldschool guys with the hardware had 2 major limitations:
1. They invented this sound, so they had noone to copy so they don't sound like anyone else.
2. They couldn't just "download" a synth. No one could get all synths, and there were no presets so they had to make new sounds on different synths, which obviously sounded different.
Point is - don't blame the software! Blame the user! Software just gives the possibility for artists to copy easily and be lazy (and we all do it, don't lie to yourself).
The solution is artist discipline - they (we) should force ourself to use just a few synths and learn it inside out and that's it.
That's what I did, got a few VSTis which I like (and for some reason they are not that popular among the psy community), payed for them, and printed the manual. Also got myself a Waldorf microQ (yea I know it's a va aka vst in a box, stfu). I'll limit myself to these and a few specific sound processing plugins (which I can afford). This way I will not use the pirated waves/urs stuff everyone uses and sound like everyone but find my own sound. Looks like it's working so far.
Anyway, bottom line - blame the users, not the system.
I agree, nice to read your point of view I'm all for exploring the amazing free VSTs (free, not cracked) and choose the few ones that touch my soul with its sound.
Sérgio Xamanist
facebook.com/xamanist
soundcloud.com/xamanist
Nomolos(Zenon Rec.)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
2027
Posted : Nov 10, 2010 20:07
Quote:
On 2010-10-27 17:59, disco hooligans wrote:
they had a way of arranging tunes where you'd get lost in the music and then it took just a few notes of them classic ripping X-Dream leads, that sent me to the outer rings of saturn and back in a flash, they simply destroyed the dancefloor with bombs of acidic megatons...I don't expect people on here to share my views.
The minimal arrangements where absolutely storming and it is in there where I find their brilliance...
Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Nov 11, 2010 11:03
Quote:
On 2010-11-10 17:19, Xamanist wrote:
I agree, nice to read your point of view I'm all for exploring the amazing free VSTs (free, not cracked) and choose the few ones that touch my soul with its sound.
I got enough paid ones in the meanwhile (thank god for student's discount, and having a job).
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 18, 2010 06:28
something else about that software and hardware discussion ,it just some thought i was thinking about and could be totally bulshit but there is some truth imo...
One problem is making music is popular today , lot of smart ass went into making plugins to take advantage of this and make money,probably many of them don t even have put their hands on some hardware, or have no clue about electronics or are not even good coders, or maybe don t have well trained ears (how do you want to make something sounding good when you have no idea about what sounding good is about)or maybe they just know they make crap plugins and sell them shameless lying in their sell speach ...but they really know how to duplicate the hardware gui.
the problem with hardware and software is probaly first the lack of good coders ,they are a lot that are there just to take your money ,you think the plugs sound like the hardware it emulate, they make money, everyone happy with plugs lol.cause i think technically there is no reason (except maybe cpu) to have software sounding worst than hardware . (i m not coders and know nothing about all that so i might be wrong)
to prouve this ,feeeware plugs are sometimes better that what you pay for and are often made by amateurs just for fun, when you see a freeware plug with a crappy gui sounding better than the last plugins costing 200 $$ it make me wonder if they dont take ppl for idiots with their gui and marketing bullshit.
Anyer
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
696
Posted : Nov 18, 2010 10:46
Holly S#$% this video it's Amazing!!! thank You So Much for Sharing this Window to the Past, it's REALLY INSPIRING ... thx Again!!! (when they PLAY RADIO...AND THEY GOT A LOT OF GEARRRR!! , now some producer LOOK really Lazy with that think of the Laptop only but, it's just my Opinion...)
THX AGAIN AND AGAIN, this Really made my Night...
TimeTraveller
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
80
Posts :
3207
Posted : Nov 18, 2010 12:49
an emulation will never sound like the original.It is not possible for software.When for instance a guy has a tb 303 that was maybe 10 years on jamaica in full sun,it willl sound different than a 303 from england.Each part alters,the transistors etc and there you find differences in sound.
You can emulate with software maybe an algorythm based on the type of original you have in front of you but this wont be the typical or original sound of this synth not even an avarage.
For me this is the difference why hardware will keep its charme.
Apart of it,plug ins are having more advantages.
But with hardware you can easier construct an 'own' sound colour.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden
Mike A
Subra
Started Topics :
185
Posts :
3954
Posted : Nov 18, 2010 13:04
Quote:
On 2010-11-18 12:49, TimeTraveller wrote:
But with hardware you can easier construct an 'own' sound colour.
So maybe that's where the problem is?
With hardware, all you need to get a different sound is change the temperature.
With software, you actually have to work!
And for some reason people's basic assumption is that "software should emulate hardware", and the criterion for which software is judged, is how close it sounds to the original hardware. You can't go any more wrong than that.
Hardware sounds a specific way before this was the only thing that was available 15 years ago. So it is treated as "best" only because the variety was low and there was nothing better. Now software, instead of trying to sound better, tries to emulate, sometimes unsuccessfully.
So people go "oh, phoscyon doesn't sound like a real tb!". Who cares? It sounds amazing on it's own. It doesn't need to sound like anything else.
Xamanist
Xamanist
Started Topics :
49
Posts :
938
Posted : Nov 18, 2010 16:32
PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 18, 2010 17:14
now i don t know if it s true cause i m so used to plugins and they are better quality these days but when i was using all hardware the first thing that i didn t like in plugs is most of them lacked dynamics to me (except reaktor) could be placebo i never did more carefull testing but i doubt it.. my guess is we re are so used to use these tools and listen music made with them that we don t care anymore about that .
plugins like albino vanguard were a big joke to me(even if it s possible to make great sounds with them) but maybe we got used to these tools and we think they are ok cause we dont have anyhting better to compare them with ? and maybe cause of more experience we can still manage to make great sound with them.
(+ there is always some placebo efects with hardware that could surprise many,it really need carefull a/b ing to really compare with software)
rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 00:16
Quote:
On 2010-11-10 20:07, Nomolos(Zenon Rec.) wrote:
Quote:
On 2010-10-27 17:59, disco hooligans wrote:
they had a way of arranging tunes where you'd get lost in the music and then it took just a few notes of them classic ripping X-Dream leads, that sent me to the outer rings of saturn and back in a flash, they simply destroyed the dancefloor with bombs of acidic megatons...I don't expect people on here to share my views.
The minimal arrangements where absolutely storming and it is in there where I find their brilliance...
Well Said!
I agree. As to the hw/sw discussion, what I hear dh describing here is not just the sound, but the composition, which x dream did in a powerful way (maybe from the heavy metal background?). They knew what to do with their sound. How to place it just right.
willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 02:37
With all the discussion of hardware vs software, I am surprised to see no one make mention of sampling non-synth sources
the outside world has so many effin cool sounds in it that you would have a pretty hard time making in a synth or would just be impossible....and with the software world you can do some really crazy shit with samples
like for instance....water. water drops and drips and that stuff processed just a tiny bit really trip me out.
Seems like with the advent of the in-the-box studio there is less sampling from outside the computer, leading to a more sterile and synthetic sound to my ears sometimes (though I know some producers are going for a very synthetic sound...not necessarily sterile though )
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records
rich
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
103
Posts :
2184
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 03:04
One of my best trips was at an outdoor party finding myself 'swimming' around to the sound of water in some track (I've never heard since).
Sampling real sounds and tweaking them slightly is a sweet treat for a tripping head for sure.
goaren
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
1151
Posted : Nov 19, 2010 12:36
heh rich i can definately relate
this happend to me in a festival 6 months ago - during a set by prometheus - i actually felt like i was swimming thru a sea of sound - dunno if youd find it ironic or not - but one of his tracks:
... thx Again!!! 
, now some producer LOOK really Lazy with that think of the Laptop only but, it's just my Opinion...)
)
