| Author
|
Witch Hunting
|
exotic
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
200
Posts :
5057
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 17:44
|
so who qualifies as the modern day witch is what i'd llike to know 
  missing plug-in |
|
|
|
MercuryFall
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
711
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 17:44
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 16:32, Krell wrote:
Sounds like your mixing up an adventure of your own consisting of the legends of arthur, celtic druids and the spanish inquisition.
Not to say that gatherings in some respects to what you describe havent taken place, but most of the witch hunting took place during and after the spanish inquisition which was formed 1478 and dispanded 1834.
This puts most of what you talk about after the middle ages.
However, there were instances of the inquisition before that, which were actually more about eradicating other christian sects than it was about fighting old time beliefs.
I think, for the most part, it would not have been knights roaming around chasing down witches.... that stuff primarily happened after the middle ages and took form of informants turning in their fellow people as "witches".
However - You are right, those in power, and those wanting to impose their views & beliefs on others are at the same time the people who crack down on any successfull minority. Afterall, any belief, value & lifestyle system which is successfull is a threat to their own, as far as I am concerned - The Christians and other religious fractions are still, by far, the most dangerous in human culture.
So it can and will happen to us, therefore we need to be carefull 
- Krell
|
|
Actually, as ear^ly as tenth century scenes like I imagined actually took place. Of course I do a lot of shortcuts in order to be more visual
YOu see, in ancient south-american tribes, the shamans were ruling the society. They were the people you would go to for any problem. But since christianity hit the european soil, european shamans were called witchs, sorcerers...
Mind-altering experiences became devil worshiping,and all the ancient knowledge were destroy by the fire...
The last witch to be burned in Switzerland, for instance, was kiled in the middle of the 19th century!!! That's only 8/9 generations from now... It's still rooted in the collective unconscious.
WHy are psychedelic underground parties so well persecuted nowadays? Because we are the heirs!!! We do collective hallucination in the forest using mind-altering substances. We are the alternative. Modern-time knights (cops, justice,...) can't allow our way of living!!!
Just imagine how it would be like in Europe today, if the so-called witches and sorcerers were the people that had ruled the society all this time.... |
|
|
|
MercuryFall
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
711
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 17:57
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 17:44, exotic wrote:
so who qualifies as the modern day witch is what i'd llike to know
|
|
The chemists? |
|
|
|
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 18:18
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 17:44, MercuryFall wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 16:32, Krell wrote:
Sounds like your mixing up an adventure of your own consisting of the legends of arthur, celtic druids and the spanish inquisition.
Not to say that gatherings in some respects to what you describe havent taken place, but most of the witch hunting took place during and after the spanish inquisition which was formed 1478 and dispanded 1834.
This puts most of what you talk about after the middle ages.
However, there were instances of the inquisition before that, which were actually more about eradicating other christian sects than it was about fighting old time beliefs.
I think, for the most part, it would not have been knights roaming around chasing down witches.... that stuff primarily happened after the middle ages and took form of informants turning in their fellow people as "witches".
However - You are right, those in power, and those wanting to impose their views & beliefs on others are at the same time the people who crack down on any successfull minority. Afterall, any belief, value & lifestyle system which is successfull is a threat to their own, as far as I am concerned - The Christians and other religious fractions are still, by far, the most dangerous in human culture.
So it can and will happen to us, therefore we need to be carefull
- Krell
|
|
Actually, as ear^ly as tenth century scenes like I imagined actually took place. Of course I do a lot of shortcuts in order to be more visual
YOu see, in ancient south-american tribes, the shamans were ruling the society. They were the people you would go to for any problem. But since christianity hit the european soil, european shamans were called witchs, sorcerers...
Mind-altering experiences became devil worshiping,and all the ancient knowledge were destroy by the fire...
The last witch to be burned in Switzerland, for instance, was kiled in the middle of the 19th century!!! That's only 8/9 generations from now... It's still rooted in the collective unconscious.
WHy are psychedelic underground parties so well persecuted nowadays? Because we are the heirs!!! We do collective hallucination in the forest using mind-altering substances. We are the alternative. Modern-time knights (cops, justice,...) can't allow our way of living!!!
Just imagine how it would be like in Europe today, if the so-called witches and sorcerers were the people that had ruled the society all this time....
|
|
Well, I dont think you can draw parallels like you do.
Of course, the ones who have the power to control are in control - but lets not forget, the power no longer lies solely with the pope and the royalty but is distributed by the use of democracy (at least in europe).
So, I dont think its fair to draw those kinds of parallels between the inquisition and our current Justice / Law & Order system.
The differences, especially in effect, are far more dominant than the similarities are in my view.
This is especially true when putting focus on the intent behind why you would persecute a minority and also who might choose to do so.
Cops & the Justice system, thats not who I see try to crack down on minorities in my country. Neo Nazis, Islamic Extremists, Danish National Socialists and perhaps a very few politicians form the core of what you describe, but they in no way dictate life in Denmark since they are held in check by the rest of the population.
- Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
|
|
|
MercuryFall
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
711
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 20:05
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 18:18, Krell wrote:
Well, I dont think you can draw parallels like you do.
Of course, the ones who have the power to control are in control - but lets not forget, the power no longer lies solely with the pope and the royalty but is distributed by the use of democracy (at least in europe).
So, I dont think its fair to draw those kinds of parallels between the inquisition and our current Justice / Law & Order system.
The differences, especially in effect, are far more dominant than the similarities are in my view.
This is especially true when putting focus on the intent behind why you would persecute a minority and also who might choose to do so.
Cops & the Justice system, thats not who I see try to crack down on minorities in my country. Neo Nazis, Islamic Extremists, Danish National Socialists and perhaps a very few politicians form the core of what you describe, but they in no way dictate life in Denmark since they are held in check by the rest of the population.
- Krell
|
|
Of course you are technically right! I'm not accusing the system in power in the western democraties to consciously witch-hunting us!
I'm saying that UNCONSCIOUSLY they do. They stand up against our beliefs and way of life for no reason at all. They want and try hard to prevent us from our own responsible choices, don't they?
So ok, the parallel is a bit harsh, but I maintain it exists in the realm of subconscious... This society cannot just shake up one thousand years of history in a few generations... |
|
|
|
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Sep 5, 2006 23:22
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 20:05, MercuryFall wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 18:18, Krell wrote:
Well, I dont think you can draw parallels like you do.
Of course, the ones who have the power to control are in control - but lets not forget, the power no longer lies solely with the pope and the royalty but is distributed by the use of democracy (at least in europe).
So, I dont think its fair to draw those kinds of parallels between the inquisition and our current Justice / Law & Order system.
The differences, especially in effect, are far more dominant than the similarities are in my view.
This is especially true when putting focus on the intent behind why you would persecute a minority and also who might choose to do so.
Cops & the Justice system, thats not who I see try to crack down on minorities in my country. Neo Nazis, Islamic Extremists, Danish National Socialists and perhaps a very few politicians form the core of what you describe, but they in no way dictate life in Denmark since they are held in check by the rest of the population.
- Krell
|
|
Of course you are technically right! I'm not accusing the system in power in the western democraties to consciously witch-hunting us!
I'm saying that UNCONSCIOUSLY they do. They stand up against our beliefs and way of life for no reason at all. They want and try hard to prevent us from our own responsible choices, don't they?
So ok, the parallel is a bit harsh, but I maintain it exists in the realm of subconscious... This society cannot just shake up one thousand years of history in a few generations...
|
|
Well, here in Denmark some of the strongest psychedelic trance party organizers get funding from the state to support our culture. So no, I dont agree with you at all
There are rules in society, thats just the way it is. They are not applied only to us, but to everyone else as well...
The annoying (and good) thing about a democracy is that often the majority rules, and the majority of people dont want psyparties with drugs and shit all over the place, all out of control.
I cant say I blame them.
But sure, there are groups of people who will actually "fight against us"... but hey, you know what ? There are also groups which we fight.
Right now, I think we are winning. So, dont worry too much
- Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
|
|
|
sure_smoke_alot
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
6874
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 07:25
|
|
Psynaesthesian
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
30
Posts :
557
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 10:41
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 23:22, Krell wrote:
Well, here in Denmark some of the strongest psychedelic trance party organizers get funding from the state to support our culture. So no, I dont agree with you at all
There are rules in society, thats just the way it is. They are not applied only to us, but to everyone else as well...
The annoying (and good) thing about a democracy is that often the majority rules, and the majority of people dont want psyparties with drugs and shit all over the place, all out of control.
I cant say I blame them.
But sure, there are groups of people who will actually "fight against us"... but hey, you know what ? There are also groups which we fight.
Right now, I think we are winning. So, dont worry too much
- Krell
|
|
How does 1 get citizenship dude?? 
Must say this .... a democracy will only help improve the scene ... if people are "fighting" (i would say 'opposing") u it would be because they see that the scene would impact their lives adversly to how they choose to be!! Possibly they fear some aspects of the culture because of "their lack of knowledge" on what the it's all REALLY about!! Nothing's perfect!!! Being open and free to express oneself will spark a healthy interaction between communities that can shed the veils of misconceptions, paving ways for all of us to unite and share all the wonderful things they have to offer each other!!!
Pray this become a reality .. soon!!
B'om Shankara!!!
"... b'om ..." |
|
|
|
TrippyJohnny
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
445
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 11:02
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-06 10:41, Psynaesthesian wrote:
How does 1 get citizenship dude?? |
|
Just as in the newspapers not all written should be taken for it's word.
Denmark is not all that rosey red and mark my words. The Police and Politicians "hate" this scene just as much as any other Policeforce and Goverment around the Globe mostly because of the drugs (which could be turned around by not publicly promote how much "we" love drugs).
There's plenty of "raids" at parties here and it's only because we got strong laws on our side that we're still able to maintain a certain level of rights to party. But have no illusion. The parties outside the clubs are just as illegal as anywhere else and do also get busted at times. The luck is that Denmark have a shortage of Policemen so they concentrate on other things at the moment. It could very well change over night.
http://www.peopleagainstpeace.net/ |
|
|
|
MercuryFall
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
711
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 11:25
|
Ok, I'm making my point a bit stronger with some scholar references. You'll see how it all connects. Here's a quote from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entheogen
-----------
Europe
The use of entheogens in Europe was all but eliminated with the rise of post-Roman Christianity and especially during the great witch hunts of Early Modernity. European witches used various entheogens, including deadly nightshade (Atropa belladonna), mandrake (Mandragora officinarum) and henbane (Hyoscyamus niger). These plants were used, among other things, for the manufacture of "flying ointments". In Christian society, witches were commonly believed to fly through the air on broomsticks after coating them with the ointment and applying them to the skin. Consequently, any association with these plants could have proven extremely dangerous and lead to one's execution as a practitioner of witchcraft. The imposition of Roman Christianity also saw the end of the two-thousand-year-old tradition of the Eleusinian Mysteries, the initiation ceremony for the cult of Demeter and Persephone involving the use of a possibly entheogenic substance known as kykeon. Similarly, there is evidence that nitrous oxide or ethylene may have been in part resposible for the visions of the equally long-lived Delphic oracle.[citation needed]
In the Christian era the Eucharist plays a symbolic role in religious tradition that has occasionally attracted the label of "entheogen" or "placebo entheogen", even though it does not conform to the original definition involving the use of vision-inducing substances. |
|
|
|
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 12:40
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-06 10:41, Psynaesthesian wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 23:22, Krell wrote:
Well, here in Denmark some of the strongest psychedelic trance party organizers get funding from the state to support our culture. So no, I dont agree with you at all
There are rules in society, thats just the way it is. They are not applied only to us, but to everyone else as well...
The annoying (and good) thing about a democracy is that often the majority rules, and the majority of people dont want psyparties with drugs and shit all over the place, all out of control.
I cant say I blame them.
But sure, there are groups of people who will actually "fight against us"... but hey, you know what ? There are also groups which we fight.
Right now, I think we are winning. So, dont worry too much
- Krell
|
|
How does 1 get citizenship dude??
|
|
Get in contact with our embassys, but its not easy
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
|
|
|
Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 12:51
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-06 11:02, TrippyJohnny wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-06 10:41, Psynaesthesian wrote:
How does 1 get citizenship dude?? |
|
Just as in the newspapers not all written should be taken for it's word.
Denmark is not all that rosey red and mark my words. The Police and Politicians "hate" this scene just as much as any other Policeforce and Goverment around the Globe mostly because of the drugs (which could be turned around by not publicly promote how much "we" love drugs).
There's plenty of "raids" at parties here and it's only because we got strong laws on our side that we're still able to maintain a certain level of rights to party. But have no illusion. The parties outside the clubs are just as illegal as anywhere else and do also get busted at times. The luck is that Denmark have a shortage of Policemen so they concentrate on other things at the moment. It could very well change over night.
|
|
What dictates what the police does, in regards to outdoor parties in Denmark, is often the people living in the area of the parties getting bothered by people on drugs, loud music & trash.
Something to remember is that Denmark is very densely populated, and far from all organizers bother to find some of the few places which are really secluded, mainly because the crowd they are able to attract are really not dedicated enough to move their asses to the location if its not close.
I think we are very well off in Denmark, the police hates the nightlife in general, its not as such related to electronic music.
What it IS related to is shitty organizers with poor security and a low level of professionalism.
It is easy to stop organizers and venues in Denmark featuring electronic music, all you have to do is recall their license to host events - This rarely happens (I can only think of it happening once or twice in the last 6 years).
Only sad thing is that we cannot have outdoor events, at all, which are legal if we want them to function 24/7... If any psy is outdoors, its probably not legal, and if its scheduled to go beyond 2 in the night, its definately not legal. Which is really sad... But psy and electronic music is not treated differently in those regards from the rules that apply to everyone else, so it can, in no way, be called a witch hunt, which is the topic of this discussion.
- Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
|
|
|
Acidhive
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
76
Posts :
2014
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 15:16
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 17:44, MercuryFall wrote:
WHy are psychedelic underground parties so well persecuted nowadays? Because we are the heirs!!! We do collective hallucination in the forest using mind-altering substances. We are the alternative. Modern-time knights (cops, justice,...) can't allow our way of living!!!
|
|
My, you really are into this aren't you? Get help man.
"Subconscious unravels at the point of death, and all time it has known erupts into a moment. As death extinguishes us, so we become it."
[Esoteric: Subconscious Dissolution Into The Continuum] |
|
|
|
MercuryFall
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
52
Posts :
711
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 15:26
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-06 15:16, Acidhive wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 17:44, MercuryFall wrote:
WHy are psychedelic underground parties so well persecuted nowadays? Because we are the heirs!!! We do collective hallucination in the forest using mind-altering substances. We are the alternative. Modern-time knights (cops, justice,...) can't allow our way of living!!!
|
|
My, you really are into this aren't you? Get help man.
|
|
into what? collective hallucination? Look around you next party you attend, man! Looks then like we all need some help!!!  |
|
|
|
Acidhive
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
76
Posts :
2014
Posted : Sep 7, 2006 00:07
|
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-06 15:26, MercuryFall wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-06 15:16, Acidhive wrote:
Quote:
|
On 2006-09-05 17:44, MercuryFall wrote:
WHy are psychedelic underground parties so well persecuted nowadays? Because we are the heirs!!! We do collective hallucination in the forest using mind-altering substances. We are the alternative. Modern-time knights (cops, justice,...) can't allow our way of living!!!
|
|
My, you really are into this aren't you? Get help man.
|
|
into what? collective hallucination? Look around you next party you attend, man! Looks then like we all need some help!!!
|
|
Got you there pal, I don't go to parties. If you did the same, you wouldn't have a problem. I'm in this scene for the music, not for the parties. It gets easier to ignore bad music if you don't get it forcefed at some party, believe me. Also, no bad vibes from parties for me. I only see ups, no downers for me 
"Subconscious unravels at the point of death, and all time it has known erupts into a moment. As death extinguishes us, so we become it."
[Esoteric: Subconscious Dissolution Into The Continuum] |
|
|
|
|
