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When it get's Ugly
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Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
2095
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 07:42
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Over the last year, i think i have read at least 5 or 6 threads from artists/musicians that havn't been paid for their services either for a gig at a party or their music that they had produced and was released.
I understand the fact that it is wrong to not get paid, especially since it is your creation and your hard work that you put into it. No doubt that many of the labels that are out there are maybe not the most professional of labels, and that they do not have the largest bankrolls to finance their releases and are Hoping and depending that the sales through the release will cover all their costs.
I suppose that the best approach from these labels would be to not release the albums or compilations unless they had the necessary backing to fund these releases, and to stop making promises that they are not %100 sure that they can deliver on.
And if they are going to take the risk without having the funds to pay initially; then they should be totally up front with these artists, and let them know that the musicians themselves would have to take a risk a long with them and that there is a possibility that they may not get paid if the release doesn't go as well as planned.
As far as the musicians are concerned; if you are not getting paid %50 up front before the release then you have to know that there is going to be a good chance that you will not get paid in full and also not in a timely manner.
One of the worst things that you can do for many of you is to come here on line and "air out your dirty laundry" in front of everyone. I for one know that i don't like seeing it, and honestly, it turns me off.
I know that you think that you are doing the "best" thing by letting everyone know of the sort of people that you are dealing with, by blacklisting them, but your actions have reprecussions, and many people are just as disappointed in seeing someone complain on line about not getting compensated.
Not only do a lot of the general public not like to see or hear about this in this fashion, but many promoters as well. Obviously there are many promoters of parties and festivals and recordlabels that are seeing this, and we don't know what is exactly the truth in these arguments. So, who would want to bring you out for you to play at one of their events or have you record a track on their label if they know that you are the sort of person that will bring all this attention on line publicly?
What I'm saying is you should probably think about the possible consequences of your actions before you act on them.
  "On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others" |
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1477
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 09:05
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-22 07:42, Magox wrote:
What I'm saying is you should probably think about the possible consequences of your actions before you act on them.
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*holds up a mirror* 
"no one ever sweats on a plug-in" -moby |
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gazella
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
202
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 09:28
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well i know that i don't like seeing that kind of advertising..but i think that is right to advise others depending in the situation.
for the realising of albums..the two parts should talk about agreements and risks of the realising
for making partys.. and there isn't a payment i think that is really screwed..becaus you can't make a party if there isn't money..and if you still make it ..ther will be some unhappy faces.
but we all know that out there exist people that only wanna fuck up others.. people that it's over the money..not the improvement of the scene..and if someone if already screw..i think its right to advise other
but let's focus on the objective of doing this.. if you objective is to fuck up the producer or label..your stupid..and specially WRONG
you objective should be protect other and advise of sitty people.
these kind of stuff must be discussed by the too part before bringin it to the forum
but if nos agreement it sould be made to ADVISE and only for ADVISE.. not to talk shit about each others
i don't know if i express my point clearly but i least i try.. ...and its just my opinion and only my opinion |
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gazella
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
202
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 09:57
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****evidence must be require and opinions must be really fundamented as well |
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
144
Posts :
3171
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 10:00
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You might notice that each time this problem arises its always to do with some compilation. never really album releases... I think artists hold their own when it comes to those.
It's the concept of VA... artists want to get on one to get promoted, labels need to get them out to establish themselves. somewhere along the way both sides just got needy. after many debates on those threads its obvious that there is neither side can justify their actions completely. all the hype on isra is clearly to get some agenda through. heck... even though YSE doesn't pay for tracks there are so many artists scrambling to be released on those CDs just to get that extra promotion.
imo...ignore em because the intent is not awareness... just another public forum trick. VA's are not worth the effort. Artists who are meant to break past that barrier will probably do it through the creation of an album. A reliable label should have the money and infrastructure to release it. |
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psy-rat
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
125
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 13:39
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Okay-now, don't take this the wrong way, because I'm probably just nuts,
and I'm probably just too fucked up to know what's going on,
and I'm probably overreacting for no valid reason,
and I hate to sound unreasonable or immature,
and I don't want to sound pretentious, but this kind of issue here makes me mad.
This is why psy-trance scene has so many problems, cause of this: artists won't get paid !!
And perhaps this is out of line and I'm certainly open to debate on this issue,
but I need to go on record (I am not an artist, just a fun) and say that
I am not 100 percent comfortable with the situation regarding some record companies
at the moment, because I have a feeling that something else is happening next to this.
I leave the rest for the artists. They should speak about this, not me. Thank U.
".. You claim that this thing .. did not affect the larger part of your brain!! Then, how come everyone else describe you as an Extra fu.. terrestrial !!!
zzzzzzzzzzzzaaaaaaaannnng..."
http://www.myspace.com/jvelbet |
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Bender B. Rodriguez
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
292
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 14:06
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-22 07:42, Magox wrote:
Not only do a lot of the general public not like to see or hear about this in this fashion, but many promoters as well. Obviously there are many promoters of parties and festivals and recordlabels that are seeing this, and we don't know what is exactly the truth in these arguments. So, who would want to bring you out for you to play at one of their events or have you record a track on their label if they know that you are the sort of person that will bring all this attention on line publicly?
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Only the crappy labels and organizers should be afraid to bring them, because they would have something to fear, in this case badmouthing them by the artist on the net. The good ones that do their job have no problems, because they have the facts behind them in need of their defence.
But, I agree on one thing. We don`t have the full facts here, because the story is often one sided.
SPQR |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 14:51
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Apart some labels that fuck up some artists there are even more labels that pay their artists and get fucked up by the fans and listeners who prefer to download an album rather than buy it.
But who cares about those greedy and filthy rich labels huh?
Psychedelic Trance scene is a scene filled with amateur artists,djs,labels and managers and i dare to say immature listeners so everyone is fucking up everyone without thinking about the consequences.
There are many many many people who owe me thousands of euros out there both artists and distributors but i never and will never open a thread concerning them,i will deal with them myself using my own ways and methods and not open silly threads to complain in a forum that can do nothing about my situation.
If someone got fucked up by someone else then he better act instead of chat.
Visit your lawyer,visit the police,visit the army or just go at this guys place and beat the shit out of him,just dont open another thread crying like a baby please.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8646
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 15:14
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-22 14:51, DETOX wrote:
Visit your lawyer,visit the police,visit the army or just go at this guys place and beat the shit out of him,just dont open another thread crying like a baby please.
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Hehe. Always liked your style baba.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 17:06
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-22 14:51, DETOX wrote:
Apart some labels that fuck up some artists there are even more labels that pay their artists and get fucked up by the fans and listeners who prefer to download an album rather than buy it.
But who cares about those greedy and filthy rich labels huh?
Psychedelic Trance scene is a scene filled with amateur artists,djs,labels and managers and i dare to say immature listeners so everyone is fucking up everyone without thinking about the consequences.
There are many many many people who owe me thousands of euros out there both artists and distributors but i never and will never open a thread concerning them,i will deal with them myself using my own ways and methods and not open silly threads to complain in a forum that can do nothing about my situation.
If someone got fucked up by someone else then he better act instead of chat.
Visit your lawyer,visit the police,visit the army or just go at this guys place and beat the shit out of him,just dont open another thread crying like a baby please.
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ok so my first reaction when i read this, is that maybe you have a point...
but then i started to think about it, and actualy its even rude...
this is a psytrance forum for sharing information. no one has any problem asking artists for help in the music production section, enjoying the free music in the tracks and in the promotion section, pming artists for free tickets to parties and so on and so on.
then, the minute someone mentions (the very much on-topic problem) of non payment or rude treatment then all this "shut up we don't care crybaby deal with it yourself" type stuff comes out.
this is part of what is happening in the scene, and this forum is a scene forum, a debate about these issues is very much appropriate here.
i think you know very well that visit the police or beat the guy up (who might be living half the world away) is often not realistic for an undrground artist with no resources.
for myself i learned the lesson, i only release on my own label, or prepaid track, or for free. no deals and contracts and all that bs. parties from now only if all travel is prepaid.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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J
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
193
Posts :
3858
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 17:10
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-22 17:06, faxinadu wrote:
but then i started to think about it, and actualy its even rude...
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That's just his way to express himself. 
Regards! |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 17:15
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oh im not offended, i just think its a bit unfair to put it off like that, and further de-vaule the artist...
but as i said, since i relaxed my "need" for releases and gigs, i don't have these types of problems anymore myself, even if it means less cool things and more diy.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 17:20
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People ask advices in the production section because they know someone can actually HELP THEM.Same for the tracks section and free tickets to parties and whatever.
I cant see how someone can help an artist who didnt got payed from a label by opening such a thread in this forum.
If the label doesnt or cant pay the artist then i doubt any topic will change anything in this situation.
Also i seriously doubt that labels get boycoted by the users in here when various topics accuse these labels by being unprofessional.
If opening such threads was usefull at all then half the labels out there along with many distributions would have closed long long time ago.
There are 1000 topics dealing with the same issue here but i cant remember even ONE topic by someone who went to justice in order to seek his rights and money.
So like i said please save us from whining and complaining and do something to help yourself.
AND LAST BUT NOT LEAST if you want to save yourself from such unpleasant situations ALWAYS BUT ALWAYS ask advance money for your music.
End of story.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 17:23
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-22 17:20, DETOX wrote:
If opening such threads was usefull at all then half the labels out there along with many distributions would have closed long long time ago.
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dude but half the labels and distros DID close! 
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 17:30
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Not because of the topics in isratrance though my friend
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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