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When it get's Ugly
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 17:43
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 18:10
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detox , go read again the posts , it helped many artists to get paid. as well some labels getting closed due the sad facts.. from all peaple i thought you should actualy support this.
anywayz add simple fact - peaple (specialy labels owners and artists) are not anonymous and dont want shity reputation.. therefor it does move things, hey what do you know , internet is part of REAL life! 
now the real reason to open this threads is not even to get payment!! its more to tell other artists how to act to not get fucked!
so maybe in your case (detox) violence work better , i still think u have basic wrong preception of the world as i like to see it if thats your additue. no im not hippie too much , but still if violence is what make order then i must realy live in diffrent universe 
also i will mention all your disapointment from the crowd is simply cause u dont fit yourself to their needs , they dont need cd's much cause the music have better ways to spread... show business it called , cause the shows are the business... (reference @ mushroom mag. interview with eyal yankovich aka hommega rec)
so in this breath , i will do something not much do, a THANX LIST for all the labels that i personly had the pleasure work with them with or without payment , peaple who didnt lie to me and made their part of the agreement , and helped in evry way
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*Giiwa Family (australia) - reece , peta , azz , darren , u are like my ausie family , much much thanx 
*Parvati family (denmark/italy/india) - Giusseppe & batun , new force dj ilse , bjoren (baked nudist) , monno & jaffa , special thanx for the good vibes and trust , as well for the great times.. 
*Zaikadelic - (israel) denis , we had the pleasure to arange event together as well couple of realeses with the label , always been on the good side of things
*Vertigo (moscow) - Sergey and Max , much much thanx for your great believe in me , im sure this chapter is just begin 
*Free radical (u.k) - sacha , u are the man! much good luck 
*Morning monster (australia) - ric , clint , luke - much much good luck in our joint way
*Mistress of evil (sf) - lots of thanx for the first realese of me and dan
*Potunder.net (israel) - faxi mate , this was one of the best cyber realeses , with 5000 downloads i think we can defintly say it was very good idea
*Psylife (hungary) - adam & sue good luck on the new path!
*Doof (israel) - uv , shahar , cobra , omer , pasha , rel , much fun realese with u and even better on the dancefloor
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hehe , hope u like this better magox 
i still think those topics (well , mine personly atleast , with facts and feelings , not just "X didnt pay Y") are valueble , or we keep hear stuff like zma stories more and more.
and more then that , if this reject anyone to work with me , its only cause they have what to hide and in this case im ok with stay out of it
  www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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headyatail2000
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
2304
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 18:49
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DETOX is partly right with the foll:
>beatin the shit outa the scum bag(s)
>no help from opening such threads...
but then,
how do u challenge sum1 sittin on the other side of da world?
i guess cash up-front is safer ...well, money is the root cause of all evil..and can come in btw friends,,so labels/artists goin 2 war is not exaggerated...artistes deserve money, labels sometimes dun make nuff money 2 pay...
but then this site is like GQ, Hello, OK... watever u wanna call it...!
so ya bad publicity is the shit!
keep it up!!!...interesting threads!
<~< "the best things in life aren't things" - art buchwald >~> |
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nEuro
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
1027
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 20:53
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SIMPLY BLACKLIST them!! 
Spread Love.
Boom. |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 22:42
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I would argue that business practices in the psytrance scene remain poor precisely because the public is ill-informed. For instance, it was expressed earlier that most problems seem to come up with single tracks on compilations, but this is not so! For a number of reasons, Isratrance tends to play host to problems of this kind, but don't imagine for a second that artists aren't completely screwed over by labels for entire albums. A good example of this would be 12 Moons and Candyflip... now, Solid State is one of the best albums of the last few years and Candyflip didn't even pay for it. Ever wonder why 12 Moons isn't releasing music any more? How about Opsis? How many people has ZMA screwed over? Cosmophilia?
The fact of the matter is that a lot of business in the psytrance scene is done across international borders for amounts of money far less than what you would need to pay a lawyer to have a situation remedied in court. All that is left to most artists and labels is the court of public opinion, best represented by this very board. And you know what? It has been remarkably effective when you think about it. Look at the pattern: the label ignores the artists about important matters until they go public, then everything tends to be resolved fairly quickly. Going public is one of the only truly effective means of gaining leverage available to most artists. Labels can continue to operate without respect for the artists as long as their reputation remains intact--which is what happens when no one says anything.
Yes, dirty laundry is not pleasant... but if business practices are to improve in the psychedelic underground people are going to need to know what is going on. Some artists surely need to wise up and become more particular about the terms they agree to, but how are they to do this without knowing about the problem in the first place? Knowledge is power and awareness is the key to finding a solution to this ugly matter. I say keep the topics coming--it's much better than remaining silent and simply leaving the scene entirely, disillusioned at the way in which business is done.
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Magox
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
20
Posts :
2095
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 23:24
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Nice post Basilisk, and a lot of the things you say make sense and definitely has it's merit. I don't disagree with the fact that many of these labels are poorly run and that many of them probably shouldn't even be in business. But you have to admit, that the musicians are partly to blame. There has to be a better awareness, an awareness of who you are doing business with. If you have an agreement with a label that hasn't even been open a year, and isn't willing to pay you %50 up front, then you have to pretty naive to think that your going to get compensated in a timely manner. I would say that that would be a pretty big clue that the label doesn't have "deep pockets" and is relying on the sales of the album or compilation to pay out.
I have read many of the posts that blacklist labels, and sometimes the information that was presented was not %100 correct. I have read a few times, where the label defended itself, and pointed out that there had been contractual matters that occured that the artist wasn't even fully aware of, where the rights to the tracks went from one label to the other. And it was because of the artist not being aware of the contract that he signed.
Sometimes i have seen where it was obvious that there had been hidden agenda's written behind the post.
I recently read here on isratrance about an artist blacklisting a promoter simply because they cancelled their gig a couple weeks before the event. Cancellations happen, and now all of a sudden everyone is wanting to blacklist everyone.
There has been defamation of character instances that were accused falsely. You don't know what to believe, and if that person or label is getting defamed, even wrongly, the damage has been done.
Just make sure you know all the facts before you make an accusation. Defamation of one's pride and repuation is an sensitive matter.
It's just ugly reading these posts. I understand something has to be done, and remaining silent isn't really a good solution, but i do believe awareness is a better answer.
"On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others" |
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faxinadu
Faxi Nadu / Elmooht
Started Topics :
282
Posts :
3394
Posted : Oct 22, 2007 23:25
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-22 22:42, Basilisk wrote:
I would argue that business practices in the psytrance scene remain poor precisely because the public is ill-informed. For instance, it was expressed earlier that most problems seem to come up with single tracks on compilations, but this is not so! For a number of reasons, Isratrance tends to play host to problems of this kind, but don't imagine for a second that artists aren't completely screwed over by labels for entire albums. A good example of this would be 12 Moons and Candyflip... now, Solid State is one of the best albums of the last few years and Candyflip didn't even pay for it. Ever wonder why 12 Moons isn't releasing music any more? How about Opsis? How many people has ZMA screwed over? Cosmophilia?
The fact of the matter is that a lot of business in the psytrance scene is done across international borders for amounts of money far less than what you would need to pay a lawyer to have a situation remedied in court. All that is left to most artists and labels is the court of public opinion, best represented by this very board. And you know what? It has been remarkably effective when you think about it. Look at the pattern: the label ignores the artists about important matters until they go public, then everything tends to be resolved fairly quickly. Going public is one of the only truly effective means of gaining leverage available to most artists. Labels can continue to operate without respect for the artists as long as their reputation remains intact--which is what happens when no one says anything.
Yes, dirty laundry is not pleasant... but if business practices are to improve in the psychedelic underground people are going to need to know what is going on. Some artists surely need to wise up and become more particular about the terms they agree to, but how are they to do this without knowing about the problem in the first place? Knowledge is power and awareness is the key to finding a solution to this ugly matter. I say keep the topics coming--it's much better than remaining silent and simply leaving the scene entirely, disillusioned at the way in which business is done.
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+1 , everything that needs to be said.
The Way Back
https://faxinadu.bandcamp.com/album/the-way-back |
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 05:00
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remaining silent and simply leaving the scene entirely, disillusioned at the way in which business is done.
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the only points left to say about psy world:
*contracts worth to ass wipe in free language , money upfront or its a ripoff.
*saying something about it (what i just did) will make it ugly and apear to be greedy bitch type no one cares for contracts been made and years that passed by.. not forget mostly the amounts we talk about is around 300eu only... which u CANT take to court in another country simply for the cost of trying.
*it was pleasure times , got kinda crapy toword the end
damm my weed is wearing off from all this talks www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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gazella
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
202
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 08:05
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I cant see how someone can help an artist who didnt got payed from a label by opening such a thread in this forum.
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The artist is already fuck up.. the artist is the one that helps other awearring them of shitty promoters or backwards |
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simon_marklar
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
107
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 08:17
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-22 22:42, Basilisk wrote:
How about Opsis? |
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i had 300 - 350 euro put aside for opsis, waiting for him to send me a track when he decided to quit. so sad, i really love his music, still listen to "man and the machine".
i wish he decided to give us a chance, maybe we could of changed his views on dodgy labels. (we pay upfront)
definitely keep on airing the dirty laundry, if only to warn other artists about dogey labels...
http://www.myspace.com/mechanicaldragonrecords |
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
Posts :
4444
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 09:36
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On 2007-10-23 08:17, simon_marklar wrote:
... if only to warn other artists about dogey labels...
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and to keep us entertained .. those threads are rox man ..wat u all complaining about ..
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
241
Posts :
2848
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 09:54
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well if you dont get paid its your own fault. the fact that you know shit like this happens and you let it happen thinking it cant happen to you...is like jumping in the ocean expecting not to get wet...the problem is that many artists trust people they barely know and give them their stash...well wake up and smell the bacon...you dont simply give your tracks away and expect the guy to do a mother teresa on you? also the artists dont take that much care of their tracks...they probably take better care of their car than their tracks. they dont mind spending on registering their cars, paying for insurance etc but when it comes to their music they dont want to spend on getting basic copyright protection. its not that expensive...yes it is little expensive but if you dont protect your stuff you cannot expect someone else to protect yours...also the fact that artists need an outlet and the rogue labels are good outlets... no one wants to venture into the mainstream (above ground)...being underground is cool
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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psysnoopy
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
1331
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 10:06
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On 2007-10-22 23:25, faxinadu wrote:
Quote:
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On 2007-10-22 22:42, Basilisk wrote:
Yes, dirty laundry is not pleasant... but if business practices are to improve in the psychedelic underground people are going to need to know what is going on. Some artists surely need to wise up and become more particular about the terms they agree to, but how are they to do this without knowing about the problem in the first place? Knowledge is power and awareness is the key to finding a solution to this ugly matter. I say keep the topics coming--it's much better than remaining silent and simply leaving the scene entirely, disillusioned at the way in which business is done.
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+1 , everything that needs to be said.
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+10 ,
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 11:50
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Have to say, there are artists whining on this forum about payments from their labels who are actually downloading, sharing and trading compilations and albums on p2p networks. What if people started to buy some cd's, then im sure the labels wouldnt fuck up, atleast not half of them.
All you traders, downloaders and rippers, you are a big part in all this mess!
So im sorry but it freaks me out that artists downloading music and then complain on this forum that they dont get payed from their own label. Think about it!'
You aint all saints yourself!
and no, i wont mention any one by name, but there are plenty of you on this forum. |
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Oct 23, 2007 11:59
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and since you all seem so horny about money, see it from the bright side, a release could give you "fame" and "fame" would give you "gigs"
and "gigs" would give you far money $$$ than any release in your life ever would!
Get rich, or die trying! Damn "hippies"
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