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What is my problem?

Speakafreaka
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  18
Posts :  779
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 05:57
Hey man, I had exactly the same problem.

I needed to work on structure.

So instead of using out and out inspiration (which is great, but will run out at some point, before the end of a track), you need to be more analytic of what you need to write next, and how you are using your time when you are working.

What are you doing when you are making progress? And what are you doing when yo stop with a tune?

Are these the same thing? (I'd bet not).

A big part of it is speed too. The more you practice with those plugins, the faster and faster you get with them, and the more and more the actual problem becomes apparent!

As I said, I was in exactly the same boat, up until about a month ago, since when I've finished two tracks, and have another three which just need topping and tailing, projects I've gone back to and been more focussed on doing what needs to be done, rather then tweaking to the nth degree.

Your desire to get a 'perfect' sound is also a major stumbling block, and again, one I get. By the time you are satisfied with a sound, you're getting sick of it. By the time you've written a section of the tune, you are sick of the whole thing. don't confuse writing a tune with mixing it. Work as fast as you can at getting your ideas down, with just a bit of low cut and delay and verb, so it sounds acceptable. Then go back and make it sound good, only when each section of the track is approaching completion, when your attention to detail brain can go to town!

There is a tipping point for me, when I know I can get a section finished. A lot of the problems I had were going from one section into another, and obviously the new section sounded unfinished compared to the old one, which meant I got very frustrated. So, it is important to get jammed in one section, or to force myself into the new section, and make myself come up with content, which, once I've passed the tipping point, I automatically make good.

You need to turn your mixing brain down, and learn about song writing skills.

I remember when I figured this out as my problem. I'm a classical musician, originally, and I know probably more then I ever wanted to about music theory. I didn't think I needed to know anymore about song structure, I thought I had a full understanding of trace structure, and in one sense, I did. I was really bad at applying it though!

And about the tweaking. It'll never sound perfect until you can hear it in context with the rest of the track. It always needs tweaking again. Don't waste your energy tweaking in incredible detail as you go.

You can't make a great sounding mix, until you have a great sounding song!

Maybe you think you have a problem with inspiration. You don't. I'll bet you have 50 upwards first sections of songs on your hardrive, all with good and unique ideas. Your mixing brain is rinsing your creative brain though, and all those good ideas are getting sucked away through tweaking it into the ground.

Hope this helps.


          .
http://www.soundcloud.com/speakafreaka
mk47
Inactive User

Started Topics :  118
Posts :  4444
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 07:31
same problem here .. Dyslexia and/or lack of talent
sly


Started Topics :  3
Posts :  183
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 08:17
seems to be a quite familiar problem here, for me as well.

nice to read some advice.

the parts of my track should always sound like perfect to me and sometimes they really do. but to put them together to a whole story i actually want to tell is something completly different. lot of problems here.

for me vipal's method works best. i just can put everything together and finish a track when i'm totally into it.

@ Djones: how much do you smoke? for me it helped a lot on this subject to stop and just have a spliff in the very right situation (o.k., sometimes i fall back into old patterns

would be interresting to read more...
Nabla jpr
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  17
Posts :  130
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 11:13
I might not be the right person to give advice as I don't have too much experience but I think this is a problem which belongs more or less to all of us. it's called laziness(smoking might have something to do with this), as Speakafreaka said it well arrangement and mixing are different processes...they need time, patient, analysis and method and sometimes we just don't feel or it's just simpler to start a new project.
sometimes I spend hours listening to the track until I get an idea how to proced or understand what is lacking or where there is too much going on
so I think a possible solution could be just trying to make a habit for those processes.
as everything I believe it's matter of practice and time

N j
fiin records
Fiin records

Started Topics :  3
Posts :  8
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 11:49
Quote:

On 2008-04-25 17:56:29, Djones wrote:
I need help, some real advice on my issue.
My issue is that I just can't make a track.
It's been years now, and I still find myself fidling around with plugins and synths and making small parts of music, before moving on and starting all over again.

I have this problem from a very early age already.
When I used to be a little kid, I used to draw, but also back then, I couldn't finish 1 drawing.
I would grab like 20 sheets of paper, and start over 20 times.
And usually I couldn't think of anything to draw!

It's like whenever things get complicated, I tend to give up and do not want to put any effort in learning and understanding the parts which I haven't developed yet.
It also seems as if I'm blocking my own mind from being creative.

Also with music, I've played piano since I was 8 or 9, but I remember also that back then I couldn't focus on the difficult parts, although I quite managed to play some serious classical music.

But now I'm just getting too frustrated about it.

It probably is some psychological thing in my head, why I can't do what I want to do.

I can be very creative in my head, visualizing music in my mind, but converting it into something within Cubase is just a whole different story for me.

In the beginning of this week I came to conclude under the influence of cannabis, while working on a track, that I was actually trying very hard not to think of the part of music, I was working on.
There was something in the back of my head which just makes me want to get this and that overwith to move on to the rest of the track.

Also, I'm finding it really hard to accept something which I have created, to sound good.
It's like I cannot accept it in my head if my music sounds different than anything that hasn't been made by other people yet.
Although I perfectly understand that what makes a great artist is the fact that he or she made something which wasn't there already.

But still, I can't get over this point.

It's just an enormous vicious circle I'm in, and I can't get out!

Are there some books maybe which could lead me into the right direction?




Maybe, you need to accept yourself and your unperfection. You need to understand, that nothing is perfect (or everything).

But maybe this helps to get out:
Try not to MAKE the music, but let the music come to you. let the music take control. do what ever happens, try not to think it has to be some special way. let the music decide how it wants to be.

try to look at music as god speaking to you and you simpy materialize what god sais! who are you to question how this has to sound like?

Simply stop thinking. start, work, finish, do not think about what you do. realize that EVERYTHING is beautiful. try it out one time. don try to make a song, don't try to make anything. just start working and let the music take you. be the musics slave.

drugs while doing music?
http://www.subconsciousmind.ch/scm/html/workshops/Drucggomposer/index.shtml

Good luck
frambonas
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  14
Posts :  166
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 13:26
Hey my problem was the other way around ;-)

I don't like to start with a empty project...
so the sollution is working together...
I have a friend with your problem, lot's of small parts but no longer then 1 minuut...
So he gives them to me, and i make them into a track....

Find some partner...once you finished one track the rest will follow
Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  39
Posts :  988
Posted : Apr 26, 2008 14:14
Quote:

On 2008-04-26 11:49, fiin records wrote:

Maybe, you need to accept yourself and your unperfection. You need to understand, that nothing is perfect (or everything).




My thoughts exactly, perfectionism is a real devil. Just remember that your imagination is so fast that it is ALWAYS ahead of what you are actually making. This makes it very hard or impossible to make something that is as perfect as you would want it to be. As far as i know there haven't been any artsts who made a final piece of work and then said: "well, it's just perfect right now, now i'm finally satisfied and i can finally stop making art".

Some of the others already said that it is good to go for quantity and not quality. I can't agree more. In a really nice small pocket book dedicated to this issue, called "Art and fear" an anecdote is described. A pottery teacher divided a class into two halves, one half had the entire day to make the most perfect pot, the other half had the day and had to make as many pots as possible. At the end of the day the quantity group had made the most beautiful pot, as well as the largest number of pots, because they stepped over the perfectionism devil and perfectioned their craft by doing it over and over again.

A studio partner also really helps, it's more fun and they stop you from tweaking a hihat for 3 hours and then throwing away the result beacause it isn't quite what you wanted. Music is one of the arts where you can work together (strangely this isn't done much in painting).
DrUiWeIrD


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  19
Posted : Apr 27, 2008 04:05
Quote:

many spliffs in the morning


= bent

DrUiWeIrD


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  19
Posted : Apr 27, 2008 04:05
Quote:

many spliffs in the morning


= bent

DrUiWeIrD


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  19
Posted : Apr 27, 2008 04:06
Quote:

On 2008-04-27 04:05, DrUiWeIrD wrote:
Quote:

many spliffs in the morning


= bent




Haha im bent.
Sonica
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  43
Posts :  396
Posted : Apr 15, 2015 18:15
Quote:

On 2008-04-26 05:57, Speakafreaka wrote:
Hey man, I had exactly the same problem.

I needed to work on structure.

So instead of using out and out inspiration (which is great, but will run out at some point, before the end of a track), you need to be more analytic of what you need to write next, and how you are using your time when you are working.

What are you doing when you are making progress? And what are you doing when yo stop with a tune?

Are these the same thing? (I'd bet not).

A big part of it is speed too. The more you practice with those plugins, the faster and faster you get with them, and the more and more the actual problem becomes apparent!

As I said, I was in exactly the same boat, up until about a month ago, since when I've finished two tracks, and have another three which just need topping and tailing, projects I've gone back to and been more focussed on doing what needs to be done, rather then tweaking to the nth degree.

Your desire to get a 'perfect' sound is also a major stumbling block, and again, one I get. By the time you are satisfied with a sound, you're getting sick of it. By the time you've written a section of the tune, you are sick of the whole thing. don't confuse writing a tune with mixing it. Work as fast as you can at getting your ideas down, with just a bit of low cut and delay and verb, so it sounds acceptable. Then go back and make it sound good, only when each section of the track is approaching completion, when your attention to detail brain can go to town!

There is a tipping point for me, when I know I can get a section finished. A lot of the problems I had were going from one section into another, and obviously the new section sounded unfinished compared to the old one, which meant I got very frustrated. So, it is important to get jammed in one section, or to force myself into the new section, and make myself come up with content, which, once I've passed the tipping point, I automatically make good.

You need to turn your mixing brain down, and learn about song writing skills.

I remember when I figured this out as my problem. I'm a classical musician, originally, and I know probably more then I ever wanted to about music theory. I didn't think I needed to know anymore about song structure, I thought I had a full understanding of trace structure, and in one sense, I did. I was really bad at applying it though!

And about the tweaking. It'll never sound perfect until you can hear it in context with the rest of the track. It always needs tweaking again. Don't waste your energy tweaking in incredible detail as you go.

You can't make a great sounding mix, until you have a great sounding song!

Maybe you think you have a problem with inspiration. You don't. I'll bet you have 50 upwards first sections of songs on your hardrive, all with good and unique ideas. Your mixing brain is rinsing your creative brain though, and all those good ideas are getting sucked away through tweaking it into the ground.

Hope this helps.






Speakafreaka never got a thanks for this well put knowledge ,he helped me to switch off my mixing part of the brain for sure by reading this so cheers ! Oh and +1 to what Orange has to say also

I love reminiscing through the gold mine of lost knowledge here at Isra Trance

Cheers


          Devasya Savitur
routingwithin
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  46
Posts :  204
Posted : Apr 16, 2015 14:49


How weird this was right now reading the OP post. It sounded as if I was writing it about my own situation.

I am spot on with the same problems man - but only more recently in my life. I would start the track off with promise, only to end with the snare drum does not sound great with the K&B. And I know if you cannot get one element to sound great from the start then why bother with the rest.

Back in the day - not knowing anything about EQ, compression and stuff I just composed the track and I was done. My bass range was a mess but it did not sound that crap.. but anyway

I realized in the end that the reason I did not want to finish it was because I just did not enjoy making trance anymore. Without hardware vsts sounded so crappy and lifeless. Tried many many techniques - but in the end after too many trial and errors I was just like f*ck this sh*t.

So moved over the metal - and it sparked some new interest within.

Like diago in blow said:

"The reason that you failed, was because you had the wrong dream"

It should happen naturally - so if you don't find yourself almost obsessed with the thing you are doing, then maybe it's not what you're suppose to be doing.

You should enjoy it, thats the only way forward.






          " We are together in this matter you and I, closer to death, yes, closer than i'd like. How do you feel? - There can be no division in our actions, or everything is lost. What affects you affects me. "
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Apr 16, 2015 16:15
it's a good idea to make the basic elements sound good from the beginning of the song, 'cause you'll need to resample the thing later on (or process it in cubase).

but truth be told, if not happy with a snare, just try another one. you have to be flexible and not over think everything. don't build expectations so high that will prevent you from being satisfied. you must be able to play with it for the sake of trying. try this, try that. jam. don't fear the delete function either.

thing is you must be flexible and it helps developing a fast workflow so you can make such decisions fast. the other trick is: do a lot and do it often. you must put in the hours. it will all get better with experience.

I think you were doing it better in the beginning, not obsessing so much about the quality of a given element and focusing on the whole thing, tbh. the thing is: get nice sounding kick and bass combo and drum sounds (and some patterns) sounding real cool. for the rest of it, just go for it, jam away, make a fucking mess if you have to. when it's done, you can polish the whole thing to make it sound as good as possible. then move on to the next.

I see here and talking with people I know, that this is probably something that almost everyone goes through at one point or another (myself obviously included), but if you stick to it, you'll manage to get over it. one has to develop a taste for structure, sure, but what other way to do it then doing it? it's one thing to say 16 bars, it's another thing to actually get a taste for it because you've been seeing, doing, making music a lot. Then it all gets easier and better. Be gentle with yourself and allow yourself to make some shit. Just set yourself to make some shit track if you have to. Just make it sound as bad as possible, but finish it. Doesn't matter. You're not getting arrested for it. The first thing one should learn, in fact - I tell this when tutoring in drawing classes - is that it's ok if you fail, it's ok to make shit. The moment you realize that, the overcomplicating phase starts to wear of.

If you're stuck in mixing because you've learned a lot of theory about it. Or perhaps you got some new synth and completely lost the focus. Don't bang yourself in the head for it. Embrace it. Ask your friends to mix some tracks. Record endless jams of synth playing and messing about. It will ultimately also help you achieve your master goal. Just think about it. It's all in our minds. Hope this helps someone. Cheers
Sonica
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  43
Posts :  396
Posted : Apr 16, 2015 19:31
Hmm well put defiantly some things to think about here..

The point I guess was to not waste the energy on polishing elements and instead be creative with loop n bars first getting out of a ten second loop bar habit of polishing and extending a creative field of ideas first.. the 5 second loop polish taught me well with eqs an stuff but I created a bad habit.

I guess it's remembering to just have fun then switch the serious detailed part of the brain and get polishing ..

Cheers

          Devasya Savitur
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Apr 16, 2015 20:25
that's the whole point. make bigger loops if you have to. like 16 bars or so. use the duplicate thing. then make some variation. then listen to it. does it feel like some transition is needed to keep the flow? zoom in there and do it. what's needed? some swoosh? some kind of drum fill? some granular effect? try it.

another thing that helps, presumably is simply to render stuff down to audio as soon as possible. save the main synth sounds on some folder for recalling them if needed, bypass the whole thing to save cpu cycles.

tidy up the project to. use colours and names and everything. use those track stacks or track folders if you have them. clear the stuff that's done (for now) out of the way, minimize it. if it looks fresh, it feels fresh. it's all about the feeling. use the tools that provide you with fast ways of trying out new things. even random functions. it's not a crime.

place a track in your daw that you like and cut the different parts if you have to. color code it, make some markers, use that as a reference for structure if you feel more comfortable. again, it's all about the feeling
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