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too many bad vibes
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l337
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
817
Posted : Mar 16, 2006 13:43
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woooooooosssssh ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Caligula
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
608
Posted : Mar 16, 2006 14:32
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"commercialism when the sole gain of the party organiser is too make money and when you have poeple joining a scene due to its popularity and not because they love what the scene is"
two points - Do you think trance party organisers chose trance parties as purely their method of making money, and so it could have been any genre of music... or is it not more realistic to say that they've COMBINED the will to make money with a passion, like trance music. You can't assume to exclude the passion merely because someone has money in mind. Vortex is commercial but the owners still do it with the love of the scene in mind.
secondly, you say people join a scene due to its popularity, and not because of a love for the scene... do you realise how fallacious your argument is. how can someone "join" a scene they already love? surely by joining you're testing it out. and didn't we all discover it through other people who love it, therefore through its very "popularity".
you are so desperate to steer clear of this abstract concept of "commercialism" that you forget that its a vital part of this world. money is necessary, full stop. people can't do things purely from the good of their heart... and honestly I would rather it remained how it did than if all the parties were dirty underground ones with bad sound ad organization and artists because it is "not about the money".
i know everyone is scared the scene will be overrun by fools and aggression... but it won't. the very nature of psytrance will keep this intact, so stop worrying. sure, the december vortex is always packed with "outsiders" but haven't you noticed that the next party on the list 2 weeks later never is? what does that tell you? people test it out, and realise they don't like it, and don't overrun the scene.
So stop moaning about something that isn't there... and get off your high horse. Share a good thing with other people who want to see what goes on. Maybe they, too, will be a "real trancehead" in 2 or 3 years time. As i've said before nobody on this forum or at any party, or in any corner of the scene, knew what they were experiencing the first time. nobody understands the music first time. nobody can stomp properly the first time. nobody has an appreciation for a culture at first contact.
anyway i think this whole topic has gone stale...
unfortunately, along with this forum... which is disapponting.
 difficile est non saturam scribere |
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ApsyDrop
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
364
Posted : Mar 17, 2006 09:34
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Like it's roots in the trance dance, psy rock, and goatrance......
psychedelia will live on and keep on taking a new pure form, growing in to something even more beautiful and simple..
Mind my mind. |
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RatInAKage
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
117
Posted : Mar 17, 2006 09:40
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nice one Caligula!
especially about the falacious arguments. 
Theyre having a huge debate on the subject on the israeli forum: maybe you guys would like to post there too - http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/80459/forum/11/start/0 -infected mushroom writing ringtones for Orange apparently offends some people to thier core. (anyways, their problems seem bigger than ours)
As for me im up for some fun in the sun this weekend!! groovy troopers should be a good one.
Peace out and let the Sun Shine in!! |
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Caligula
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
608
Posted : Mar 17, 2006 11:37
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Yeah you gotta feel sorry for the israelis who are passionate about being part of the psychedelic 'underground'... because there it isn't at all underground. Of course, they're spoilt for choice of amazing artists... but littered among this is cheese. ringtones for orange? thats finally an official sell-out from IM. That is purely for money... there's no question this time. I found I couldn't take them seriously anymore after i saw them on a clip from israeli tv playing cities of the future in a brightly lit, empty studio. how can producers play live to no crowd? bands maybe, but electronic music is part artist, part crowd. its inextricably interwoven.
but people make their own choices. i'm still choosing to watch them at brixton academy next month for the party... so i won't bitch about them anymore.
we have it soooo good in SA. so so so non-commercially good.
enjoy groovy troopers, fellow pumpkins fan. its billy corgan's birthday today... he's 39!
difficile est non saturam scribere |
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l337
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
817
Posted : Mar 17, 2006 11:57
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On 2006-03-16 14:32, Caligula wrote:
two points - Do you think trance party organisers chose trance parties as purely their method of making money, and so it could have been any genre of music... or is it not more realistic to say that they've COMBINED the will to make money with a passion, like trance music. You can't assume to exclude the passion merely because someone has money in mind. Vortex is commercial but the owners still do it with the love of the scene in mind.
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i agree with what you have to say there.....in SA yes, but in other parts of the world i really dont think that is purely the case.... maybe thats what i meant , rather stating in our context and not a global context was correct
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secondly, you say people join a scene due to its popularity, and not because of a love for the scene... do you realise how fallacious your argument is. how can someone "join" a scene they already love?
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people are joinging the scene due to its statuz popularity...
i mean come on ....Opium having a psy night...its to make money....
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surely by joining you're testing it out. and didn't we all discover it through other people who love it, therefore through its very "popularity".
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my point exactly  , but not my point,.....i have no problem with people joing the scene, its good, i do have a problem with "psytrancers" doing coke..since when was coke the drug of choice.,....its fucking ridiculous
these people see the scared parties as an excuse to get fucked, ....a place to do drugs....thats it.
yes everyone knows that the music and drugs go hand in hand, but since when was the sole point of it to get fucked....on a ground level , as the commercial crowd like to say "the punters" are only interested in the drugs....the music is a side affect of the drugs....
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you are so desperate to steer clear of this abstract concept of "commercialism" that you forget that its a vital part of this world. money is necessary, full stop.
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when it comes to business i am one of the most commercial people you will meet , i am all for money making....
why do you think i am so against the commercialism of a scene, in the so called real world my mind is about business and making more money than your competitors and taking work away from them etc....etc,.,,
so thats why i dont want to see it when i go and party.....i dont want a commercial expierence...
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people can't do things purely from the good of their heart... and honestly I would rather it remained how it did than if all the parties were dirty underground ones with bad sound ad organization and artists because it is "not about the money".
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i agree with you ....but here is somthing to think about....about rigs and etc
but you can stil have wicked underground parties and have a high quality party....
maybe you miss the point.....
its the music that is commercial, and thats what is making the whole scene commercial and thats why all these commercial fakes are coming to the parties to get fucked on drugs....
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i know everyone is scared the scene will be overrun by fools and aggression... but it won't.
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already has......
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the very nature of psytrance will keep this intact, so stop worrying.
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the nature has been lost long ago, the music hqas no heart or soul anymore.....
*sighs*  |
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Caligula
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
608
Posted : Mar 17, 2006 13:04
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Thanks for the positive response... I'm glad this forum is actually being used as a medium for the equal exchange of ideas as opposed to code-a and mandark's 'my opinion is all i care about' approach.
Firstly, I am only referring to the SA scene. The rest of the world has its own problems, and my experience is limited to a few festivals in europe, and some sweaty clubs in london... so I can't properly comment on that.
I agree the soul of psy in SA has been affected... but I wouldn't say lost. There's plenty of heart left. You only have to look at the fact that we are, in fact, having this conversation to know that many like us care enough to discuss it online.
As for the aggressive people overrunning the scene... December vortex aside, do you not think its unfair to say that these people are dominating? Look at alien safari in december, or any beartrap, and you can see that these people are by far the minority. I won't deny they are there... but I think they are scattered enough to have little effect. It is true, however that one is too many, and its unfortunate... but compared to rest of the social or cultural work we are lucky to have so few. I think in this case we must look at the glass being half full or suffer from our own indignation.
Smaller parties can, of course, be incredible... even better than the big ones... but a balance can exist. What I mean to say is that money is needed, and people are trying to make a living out of it at the same time as throwing parties... so commercialism is involved... but not as severely as many people seem to make out. If the scene truy does revolve around the music, the only way the best artists will play is for money. Its only natural.. if I were one of the more popular acts its only fair that I would charge one of the highest rates... as with any profession. But ringtones and tv and radio for psy is waaaaay too far.
I cannot argue the cocaine point... I agree with you 100%. Coke doesn't expand your mind, or add to the dancing experience. It doesn't aid in appreciating the complexity of a track, or a mix, or a performance. Its merely an overrated way for people with lower self esteems to give them a subtle 'push' to a happier party. I apologise if that offends anyone... but its true. Its an image drug, and does not belong in trance.
Opium having a trance night is terrible... I've been once and didn't enjoy it. A fight broke out on the dancefloor, which says it all. Its a pity because the residents are talented... but what can you do but boycott these parties? The more the 'real' tranceheads attend, the more damage it does.
It would be perfect/ideal/utopian to separate trance parties from the commercial world. As you say, during the week we need to be money driven in a sense to pay rent, pay for petrol, buy food and fund these parties... but on the other hand, like i said, the people organising the parties are working. They're making money for all the abovementioned. Its exceedingly difficult to be a successful promotor, and have a 9-5 job at the same time... So its understandable that they want to push the profits slightly higher...Another reason is the cost of venues. In order for a promotor to book and maintain a planned party he MUST worry about money so as not to let everyone down by cancelling.
Thanks for the comments... I apologise if my points seem like a ramble.
difficile est non saturam scribere |
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l337
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
Posts :
817
Posted : Mar 17, 2006 15:45
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some very good points caligula
i suppose in alot of my arguements i have been harsh towards the scene, and yes with the good comes the bad, i think eventually there will end up being two kinds of parties...
the big INfected , GMS, skazi type parties, and then of course the smaller parties with a less fluffy sound and more minding bending etc....
hopefully , so everyone will be catered for.... |
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hummingbird
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
115
Posted : Mar 17, 2006 17:41
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For me one of the big plusses of trance has always been that it evolved out of a need for culture for those of us who didn't really have the looks, the money or the interest or whatever to claw our way to the top of the ratpack.
Way it was, if you wanted to express yourself in western culture you had to go out and buy yourself a Rolls Royce, a country estate, a couple of butlers and vast quantities of expensive port and cigars... Ouch. I don't even like cigars.
Then along came the global dance revolution where all it took was a couple of speakers and an empty warehouse... and viola! Instant culture!
Well within the means of any enterprising hobbit.
So the way I look at it... if things are starting to feel claustrophobic and too commercial rope in some of your mates and throw a small one of your own.
With a bit of goodwill and imagination you can probably keep costs to under R 3000.00 which is small enough that even if you don't break even it's not such a big deal...
Even better... get thirty friends together and everyone throw R100.00 into the kitty and give commercialism the ultimate fuckyou by making it a free party.
After all, that's how the Cape Town scene started long before any of todays big names were still small names.
--
PLUR and say *fluffy-anna-glowstick*
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Caligula
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
608
Posted : Mar 17, 2006 18:43
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To be honest I loooooove the cape town trance scene. I have enjoyed every second of every outdoor I've ever been to. I feel like I've discovered paradise, in finding psytrance - the music, culture and people. I feel blessed to have it has a passion.
Every day my passion increases, and enriches my life.
I am grateful to the producers, dj's, promotors, and fellow party-goers.
And that's that really... thats how I feel about everything. To me this commercialism debate, while interesting and relevant, is analogous to bemoaning a tiny white cloud in the corner of a clear blue sky.
The cape town psyscene is magical. don't take it for granted. stay focused on the positive.
PLUR
difficile est non saturam scribere |
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DJSarasin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
789
Posted : Mar 19, 2006 20:20
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Caligula.....
The thing is.....u are PERFECTLY RIGHT!!
It IS the best possie around.....There is no doubting that.
However.....for the Mystical Magical feeling and vibe to continue....There are the dudes behind it creating it....or facilitating it at least.
The commercialism and politics is very real for us.
Thats why we need YOUR guys support.
I mean....the older generation have kinda moved on. Parties are not what the used to be.....so its kinda up to you guys to create teh vibe and energy.
All the promotors and organisers can do ....i book the right DJ's.....and set the scene.
YOU guys do the rest.
So its a case of....help us .....help you!
Instead of all teh bitching and moaning....how about some REAL constructive crits.
You not BULLSHIT.....like.....i wanted Fanta and the bar did not have....ain;t gonna cut it.
What would make the party MORE magical for you?
While taking the rest of the crowd into consideration.
I would liek to see teh Dj or Live act's name displayed by teh VJ's.
I would like ot see more dressing up....more effort for more enjoyment.
Something positive.....out of a negative ya know!
We all say we love the scene so much....
So why don't we all add a bit more effort?
Its not that hard!
Beartrap - SA
WEBSITE:
www.myspace.com/djsarasin
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Beartrap-Productions/35950216057
DJ SET DOWNLOAD:
www.soundcloud.com/djsarasin
VIDEO:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WiWqeyTf0Uk |
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Caligula
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
608
Posted : Mar 20, 2006 11:38
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I agree... and I make as much effort as I can...
Spending hours in front of my laptop to make ripping tunes for one... getting there... so my input will hopefully one day be musical. Other than that I attempt to spread a positive attitude, but what more can one really do. I'm in this for myself... I dance for myself, and enjoy the parties with friends for myself. While maintaining respect for others and meeting so many new, great people I'm fulfilling my aims. I don't really feel the need to offer more... Party promotion/organization is a choice... and I don't think its necessary for all in attendance to contribute.
What about the pure fun factor that brought us all here in the beginning? Lets not make this scene/culture something that requires heavy maintenance and admin. That's what starts these debates in the first place.
The world isn't perfect.
I have ABSOLUTELY no idea what I just said. Its monday morning and I'm tired. I'm already overdue a stomp.
difficile est non saturam scribere |
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zakesm
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
171
Posted : Mar 20, 2006 17:31
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insightful sarasin |
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DJSarasin
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
789
Posted : Mar 21, 2006 23:20
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hummingbird
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
115
Posted : Mar 23, 2006 20:11
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DJSarasin wrote:
> I would liek to see teh Dj or Live act's name displayed by teh VJ's.
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Nice idea. Parties are too big now to go up to the DJ booth and ask for the DJ's drivers license.
> I would like ot see more dressing up....more effort for more enjoyment.
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The Alien crew are doing a nice thing for the April fools party by giving discount on the trance-tax if you're dressed up. *yum* Nice to see.
>Something positive.....out of a negative ya know!
Me, I would love to see the return of the D&D [1] crew...
- hummingbird
[1] Djembe&Didge
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PLUR and say it's like we're all in this together man and it's like we're building this giant hypergalactic cosmic bridge man and we're like all gonna get so high man and like peaceful man and... guys ? guys ? |
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