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Too chaotic darkpsy is no good!
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 12:46
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pete
IsraTrance Junior Member
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534
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 15:30
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@Will...My theory is that certain high bpm psytrance artists with dense sounds trance me out through overstimulation of the brain, combined with physical exertion. In addition, I am deeply skeptical of the argument that certain bpm ranges uniquely trance people out because of the way it makes them dance, because people dance in such a variety of ways to faster and slower trance. If your point is that a very specific type of physical activity creates a unique state, that is probably a truism, but I'm not convinced that=the one trance state. Frankly, it sounds like something that could be achieved by running a marathon while listening to the new Kanye/Jay-Z, or polka.
If I understand the op correctly, the claim is that too many unpredictable glitches detract from the tracks. I am largely in agreement, although as time goes on, those formerly unpredictable glitches become more predictable and easy to dance to.
  http://soundcloud.com/herbert-quain |
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pete
IsraTrance Junior Member
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534
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 16:48
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1659
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 18:55
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Pete beat me to it. 
I think it's not only music. I recently discovered - completely by chance - a pretty effective recipe for trancing (if not wandering into the remaining 6 dimensions too  ):
1) Work your butt off on a night shift (preferably, with no weekends for a few weeks);
2) Listen to psycore on your way to gym (10 minutes, in my case);
3) Get on an elliptic bike;
4) Sync your stride to Wizack Twizack's "Space No More".
You'll get those quantum super-duper vibrations by the end of the 3rd track.
Now, was it Mr Twizack or was it the repetitive movement or was it that endless working day (when people in the morning say "See ya tonight" on their way to the exit door)?
P.S. Will, I am with you entirely on the whole "Let's fire up our PubMed search" issue. And on pseudoscientific babble too. And on how many people miss your point.
P.P.S. Still don't share your attitude towards dancing.  |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Aug 15, 2011 21:55
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I stand by my claim that the rush that you get from frenetic exercise is vastly different from a trance state.
Here are some more interesting links:
http://www.marshall.edu/jrcp/VE13%20N1/jrcp%2013%201%20thomason.pdf
Also, this, from:
http://psychedelic_trance.pagesperso-orange.fr/psy_history_part3.htm
"Rhythm
The beat is generally a steady 4/4 kick. This monotonous rhythm is a key to the "Trance" aspect of this music. As well, it explains the discrepancy between Psy Trance and black, polyrhythmic dance music.
16th notes are the basic rhythmic division. The bpm (beats per minute) of Goa Trance tracks is quite medium, between 135 and 155, with an average at 145. Initially, the tempo was more moderate, a little bit more than 130, then it increased until 199, before another decrescendo following the influence of other musical genres.
In passing, we can mention that a link is often made between the alpha waves frequencies of the human brain, associated with the state of trance, between 8 and 12 Hz, and a constant stream of 16th notes which, when played at the suggested average of 145 bpm, yields a flow of musical events at an average of 10 Hz. Coincidence or more ?"
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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pete
IsraTrance Junior Member
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32
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534
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 22:11
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I think the relevant examples in above posts are non-frenetic exercise. I'm inclined to agree that the mental effects of running a 100 yard dash are different from the mental effects from a marathon.
http://soundcloud.com/herbert-quain |
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MR VOMERS
Datavore
Started Topics :
36
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2094
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 23:10
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This topic has gone completely off topic..which is great..because the original topic is OLD as shit lol...
WARNING: The Reality Master General has determined that Mr. Vomit may significantly alter your reality. Usage of the knowledge provided by Mr. Vomit may be perceived as dangerous and subversive by those in authority. |
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pete
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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534
Posted : Aug 15, 2011 23:23
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Hehehehe. Seriously though, I think the op was
actually making a nuanced point, but the wording made it seem like another dead horse for sure. I only understood the point when the enichkin, furious, psykovsky, and selectproject videos were posted. Which is kind of interesting. Anyway...
http://soundcloud.com/herbert-quain |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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1659
Posted : Aug 16, 2011 04:05
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Will, I was not talking about "frenetic exercise". How are my strides on an elliptic different from somebody's stomping in a party?
All I am saying is that it does not have to do with just one thing. "Space No More" did not make me trance when I browsed books in (recently deceased  ) Borders stores or when I drove to work. It does make me trance after a night shift, a few minutes of psycore assault (still on-topic, see? ) and syncronized movement (which would be dancing in your case; in mine it happened to be "cross-country skiing" in a gym).
Now, would I achieve the same effect with a 180 BPM psycore album? Maybe. I would just have to move at 90 strides per minute. Maybe do StairMaster instead of elliptic, for example. Except, I personally would get a headache after 2-3 tracks and turn it off. But plenty of people would be just fine with it and surf those high-energy vibrating strings or whatever.
So far, I am agreeing with you here: it's mostly about
- the tempo (Mr Twizack's music beeing mostly in the range you mentioned) and
- whether you like the music itself (which I do).
Which reminds me: I'd probably trance out after rocking side-to side to your "walking baby dynausaur" tune too. |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
108
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1069
Posted : Aug 16, 2011 04:54
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Quote:
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On 2011-08-15 21:55, willsanquil wrote:
I stand by my claim that the rush that you get from frenetic exercise is vastly different from a trance state.
Here are some more interesting links:
http://www.marshall.edu/jrcp/VE13%20N1/jrcp%2013%201%20thomason.pdf
Also, this, from:
http://psychedelic_trance.pagesperso-orange.fr/psy_history_part3.htm
"Rhythm
The beat is generally a steady 4/4 kick. This monotonous rhythm is a key to the "Trance" aspect of this music. As well, it explains the discrepancy between Psy Trance and black, polyrhythmic dance music.
16th notes are the basic rhythmic division. The bpm (beats per minute) of Goa Trance tracks is quite medium, between 135 and 155, with an average at 145. Initially, the tempo was more moderate, a little bit more than 130, then it increased until 199, before another decrescendo following the influence of other musical genres.
In passing, we can mention that a link is often made between the alpha waves frequencies of the human brain, associated with the state of trance, between 8 and 12 Hz, and a constant stream of 16th notes which, when played at the suggested average of 145 bpm, yields a flow of musical events at an average of 10 Hz. Coincidence or more ?"
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Quote:
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On 2011-08-12 17:32, cinderVOMIT wrote:
Stay in the nest if you are scared to fly.
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+1
send ur theory to oxford , they will approve...
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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1069
Posted : Aug 16, 2011 04:56
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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2822
Posted : Aug 16, 2011 05:58
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Quote:
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On 2011-08-16 04:05, Maine Coon wrote:
Will, I was not talking about "frenetic exercise". How are my strides on an elliptic different from somebody's stomping in a party?
All I am saying is that it does not have to do with just one thing. "Space No More" did not make me trance when I browsed books in (recently deceased ) Borders stores or when I drove to work. It does make me trance after a night shift, a few minutes of psycore assault (still on-topic, see? ) and syncronized movement (which would be dancing in your case; in mine it happened to be "cross-country skiing" in a gym).
Now, would I achieve the same effect with a 180 BPM psycore album? Maybe. I would just have to move at 90 strides per minute. Maybe do StairMaster instead of elliptic, for example. Except, I personally would get a headache after 2-3 tracks and turn it off. But plenty of people would be just fine with it and surf those high-energy vibrating strings or whatever.
So far, I am agreeing with you here: it's mostly about
- the tempo (Mr Twizack's music beeing mostly in the range you mentioned) and
- whether you like the music itself (which I do).
Which reminds me: I'd probably trance out after rocking side-to side to your "walking baby dynausaur" tune too.
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Oh I agree with you, it's not just one thing. When I think of exercise I default to thinking of routines or actions that would put you into the faster-than-dancing range - but you're right, an elliptical machine is not a frenzied exercise.
Maybe one of the reasons fast music doesn't trance for me is my in inability to dance halftime to 4/4 music. I can't dance to 180 bpm like it's 90 - at least not in a way that feels natural that I can sustain.
I'm mostly a stomper and flailer of limbs...much above 145 and I have to really try to keep up with the music.
Thanks for the kind words my stuff has a loooong way to go though
Anyways, back on off topic...my personal quest for optimum trance territory aside, I don't think there is "one true" trance state. As varied as consciousness is sober I don't think it's far fetched to say that there are many, many different types of altered states effected by music.
If you want to make an apple pie from scratch...you must first invent the universe
www.soundcloud.com/tasp
www.soundcloud.com/kinematic-records |
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V3NOM
Inactive User
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2234
Posted : Aug 16, 2011 07:14
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From chats with friends, most say they prefer high end bpm (150+) as it's easier to groove to.
I agree, and I generally crank up a lot of the prog style I play so that it's more danceable.
Anything less than 135bpm I also find a massive yawn to play as a dj, unless it's a chilled set.
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy! |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
1659
Posted : Aug 16, 2011 09:42
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You are all terribly wrong!
There is no "range"!!
There is only one true tempo all music should play at!!!
Take the length of the year of Venus, take its reciprocal to find frequency, then keep multiplying it by 2 until you get your True Tempo. Only this way you can achieve harmony and commune with the Greate Goddess!! Anybody writing music in a tempo other than this is not a musician but a talentless fraud. Anybody who dances to such false music is an accomplice in the evil Penis Conspiracy.
End patriarchy now!
Long live Great Mother Goddess!!
Repent, you male chauvinist pigs, or I will play the "red note" until you all start menstruating. |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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2822
Posted : Aug 16, 2011 09:43
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