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The Mother of all BASSLINES thread
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TRapp
Inactive User
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
271
Posted : Jun 4, 2005 13:36
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yea with VB use 1/32 and yes VB seems to be the No. 1 bass synth for all the S.A guys 
we have deep op training centres in the deep dark forrests of South Africa where nobody can find....'they' are training an army of elite psy producers with Vb1 protocals and level 9 techniques
ONLY JOKING...its all a conspiracy anyways...hehe
~~represent
  I dont do the drugs....I AM the drugs |
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Jun 6, 2005 04:13
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Bass is all about eq and compression...
You can practically make a bass on any synth provided it has an an oscillator, filter and ADSR envelope (wait... isn't that the Muon Tao? )
Remember though, it's not just about how "phat" the sound it, it's the groove it creates 
@ TRapp: I wanna to go to that forest!! |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Jun 6, 2005 11:38
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-06 04:13, NikC wrote:
You can practically make a bass on any synth provided it has an an oscillator, filter and ADSR envelope (wait... isn't that the Muon Tao? )
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You're right, but the muon tao only has a simple envelope, no? 
joao
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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NikC
BeatNik
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
601
Posted : Jun 7, 2005 21:27
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-06 11:38, sy000321 wrote:
You're right, but the muon tao only has a simple envelope, no?
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hehe, yeah you're right ...
Let me rephrase
"You can Practically make a bass on any synth provided it hsa an oscillator, filter and simple envelope!
(my mistake  )
www.myspace.com/beat_nik |
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S7a5
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
12
Posts :
62
Posted : Jun 9, 2005 08:09
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I use compression mostly to add rms (power) to bass and kick and to bring all peaks at the same level. (i.e sometimes when u play octave notes u end up with higher notes sound louder than lower.) It is important to bear in mind that compressors are there to remove dynamics (as Bagginz once told me) not to add; so it is easy to get unnatural sound. Another thing that I find very important is when processing kick and bass you have to do it on high volume (i'm not talking about monitors bc that's a must) and sometimes bring it back to low volume and check how it sounds. Sometimes you'll hear some odd harmonics that you will need to filter out with parametric eq (don't cut a lot though). Listen to kick and bass on high volume and bring it up on mixer levels (the way you like)so they don't clip and then you'll have the whole picture. You might also want to check how it sounds in relation with hats, so if you hear some crap get rid of it. Usually if you are using good kick sample you don't need to eq it at all what you need is to make bass sound with kick in harmony. It is a good idea to sample notes and play them from sequencer or sampler make sure you don't hear clips caused by not returning the wave to 0db amplitude. I wouldn't recomend anyone to spend hours balancing lows before the mix is cooked and you have all arrangements etc.. bc you'll just lose your time on it. It's much more easier and inspiring to give lows the clarity and character at the end. Well, those are just my ways combined with other's experiences of looking at this problem. And yes this thread is full of crap and lacks useful information!! :S |
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Milosh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
204
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 21:38
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Insert a Fruity Peak Controller to your kick drum on the fx channel and disable the mute button so you can still hear it.
Insert a compressor on the bass fx line right click the gain control and link to controller...peak level.......tweak the base and vol knobs on the peak controller to get the right mix,also try the threshold parameter...
Worked for me to sync kick w bass.. I hope it's not off topic
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Boobytrip
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
988
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 16:17
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This has probably already been said in this thread, but i didn't have the energy to wade through all the posts so here we go again
What i think were the highlights in my search for a bass-sound i can live with:
1. the sound of the bass in the mix probably depends as much on the eq-ing of the rest of the mix, as on the bass-sound itself. Try removing (eq) the frequencies that the bass occupies from the rest of the instruments (using group-tracks is a good technique for doing this), and the bass will shine through.
2. try to use NO eq on your bass-sound (or as little eq as possible) as it will ruin the sound most of the times.
3. try to use NO compression on your bass-sound, except maybe as as a side-chain or an effect to create harmonix --> See 4
4. try to get punch and body of your bass-notes by intelligent use of envelopes (both filter and amp) and by tweaking the note-lengths in yur sequencer, but --> see 5 and 7
5. try to not have bass and kick-notes play at the same time because they occupy the same frequency range in the mix.
6. use a decent synth. Hardware ones that are okay are the Nord-lead, Virus, Bass-station, SH-101, Juno 106. Software ones are the Albino, V-Station, Muon Tau (and Tau pro), Tritium and probably loads of other ones.
7. As for the envelopes --> amp envelope:
start off with all contols ADSR set to zero. Then, as your midi-track is playing:
<attack> as low as possible
<decay> ease it up until you get a nice bass-sound attack
<sustain> ease it up until your bass-sound has enough body
<release> as short as possible without a 'click'.
--> filter envelope:
<amount> tweaky tweaky...
<attack> 0
<decay> tweaky tweaky...
<sustain> 0
<release> short, but you can tweak it.
try to strike a nice-sounding balance with the filter-frequency, the amount of filter envelope and the amount or filter envelope decay.
also try to have only one or two oscillators and have them sync-ed, so the start of the note is also the start of the waveform.
If you use a hardware-synth, it can be a good idea to bounce your bass-line and chop it an load it to a sampler, because of possible midi-note latencies and stuff like that.
These are of course general guidelines, but they were the ones i found most useful, so i summarized them here. |
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fuzzikitten
Annunaki
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
603
Posted : Jun 16, 2005 18:32
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Good summaries.
#7 was the most important for me, totally gave my basslines 'bite'.
As long as I make sure my kick is less than a 1/16th note long (for kbbb-style basslines) and that I have no kick/bass notes at the same time, I can avoid any EQ or compression on both and they sound *great*.
I really like having my kick playing on one synth and my bassline on another, so that I can 'tweaky tweaky...' them both to get them sitting together really nicely, then bounce the kick to .wav.
I've been playing with minimonsta lately for my kick, the self-oscillating filter is really nice.
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jun 26, 2005 22:28
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Hi. This is my first posting here and (like someone mentioned before) i'll probably repeat something... so please don't get angry.
Last few months i've been experimenting with sidechaining kick and bass chanels. Altough the practice is to compress bass with kick volume i've tried the vice versa also and i think i've got even better resaults this way. My first impression was that somehow people have overseen this technique but on the second tought i find that impression a bit not likely So if anybody is sharing this impression (or was sharing) i'd like to hear about it.
btw: some of the posts have been more than usefull to me. few of them are brilliant so tnx a lot and i'll try to pay it back the same way
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 11:55
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shamantrixx: welcome to this bass obsessed forum
i prefer to not use side chains in bass/kick and instead never used a kick note at the same time that a bass note and adjust envelopes so they never clash
joao
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 13:25
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For some styles of bass u need to use bass and kick at the same time. U miss a lot of grooves if u always don't use bass and kick at the same time.
Therefore sc is nice to fit it together.
Signature |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
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549
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 13:44
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tnx for welcome
for 2 years i was using the technique you've described and i think it's a good way 2 build the track with k-0-b-b or k-0-b-0 "formation". But if you want a killer k-b-b-b sidehain is what will help you make it fast and loud. Since the kick drum produces some "tail" in low frequency range (20 to 60 Hz) the first bass note after the kick is never "clean" because kick "tail" coveres the attack on bass note.
You can cut the kick so that it stops before the fist bass note - but than you loose most of the power from kick drum. Sidechain simply cuts the kick exactly on the frequencyes played by bassline. Usualy bass attack is in the range from 50 to 80 Hz and after "clearing" the kick tail in that range you make a "space" for bass note but you don't loose the kick "tail"... you just shape it so that it gets along with the bass line. Try this technique once and you'll hear the difference. You actualy gain a few extra dB in the kick - bass section with extremly clear sound.
Another cool thing is the fact that sidechain ratio can actualy change groove in this section. Since it can be automated it's a nice side efect that can be very usefull.
ps: somebody wrote that bass line is best if not EQ-ed and not 2 much compressed... he's apsolutly right
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 13:53
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-27 13:44, shamantrixx wrote:
You can cut the kick so that it stops before the fist bass note - but than you loose most of the power from kick drum. Sidechain simply cuts the kick exactly on the frequencyes played by bassline.
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Nope! Side Chain lower the volume of one instrument using anothers volume as a paramenter. It doesn't act frequency-wise...
Since all the side chain does is to lower the volume of what's being play you can do it more cleanly with an evelope (amp envelopes role is to controle volume).
EYB: when overimposing KICK and BASS used and EQ to make them fit... every style that needs simultaneos kick and bass does it (or side chain)
but we were talking about psy, weren't we?
but if you're recording live bass or making dnb, rock, industrial, pop that's another question...
"U miss a lot of grooves if u always don't use bass and kick at the same time. "
since your imagination is the limit your not missing anything, you're just opening doors to more experimentation and more wicked grooves
Shamantrixx: "somebody wrote that bass line is best if not EQ-ed and not 2 much compressed... he's apsolutly right"
dont' know who say that but i totally agree... in fact everysound is better when not EQued... only use EQ/Compression to correct errors or to spice things up...
like a good mix wont need mastering, a good instrument wont need EQ
joao
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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shamantrixx
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
549
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 18:14
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-27 13:53, sy000321 wrote:
Nope! Side Chain lower the volume of one instrument using anothers volume as a paramenter. It doesn't act frequency-wise... |
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i have to disagree with you. here is a short quote from compressor user manual:
- using the Sidechain inputs to create frequency sensitive compression
By inserting an equalized signal to the sidechain inputs you can make the compression
more or less sensitive to a certain frequency range. A typical application of this is “de-essing” - where harsh “S”-sounds in vocal material is reduced or eliminated.
so all you need for making it frequency sensitive is the treshold control, prewiev the eq-ed signal connected 2 sidechain compressor and pinguin (or other) analyser. Simply preview the eq-ed bass signal and amplify the attack freq. range to be louder than you've set on compressor treshold. By using a narrow Q you can control the frequency that will be compressed on kick ch. If oune eq is not enough... connect another
and i think eyb is right... this way you can make a nice "glide" from kick "tail" to fist bass note. i really don't see why it would be wrong to use this is psytrance.
with the rest of the post i agree
"It occurred to me by intuition, and music was the driving force behind that intuition. My discovery was the result of musical perception"
Albert Einstein, speaking about his theory of relativity |
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sy000321
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
46
Posts :
1142
Posted : Jun 27, 2005 18:23
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shamantrix... if you place an EQ in the signal you're going to insert into the side chain the signal that reaches the compressor side chain is equed...
and i NEVER SAID it's wrong to use that... so many people use it i would be dumb to say it's wrong...
AND please be my guest! Use whatever suits you! compressors, eqs, flangers, distortion... the world is yours.. i've never said it was wrong... just defending my point for not using side chainning in bass/kick.
still i prefer envelopes... because i believe it's better to create something "correct" (using envelopes) than to correct it later (using compressor with EQued side chain)
Also, thanks for on the info on how to do it your way... i might try it when i have the time
roll a joint or STFU :) |
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