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The future of the trance industry
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buzzee
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
64
Posts :
720
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 02:34
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@ Spindrift....
First of all it is very difficult to get the cd's we want as there are no psyshop's in Mumbai(Nothin that i Know off)....The only source is Psyshop(on the net)..and Beyond Logic as well....for some of their compilations....
You tell me where do we guys get music from....
Besides this....As the world is changing...people will always go for cheaper & easier way of getting music...
One of friend who downloads music...does'nt even know what music he's downloading....
Can you beat this....
there is one new track released everyday.....how in the world...will we know about all.....
@ EYB....what you said is true....about the free promotion....
I myself have heard some good tracks which were downloaded & have ordered for the CD's....
I have noticed 1 promotion which i kinda think is a cool idea.....For the Exaile party..there were some guys who were selling CD's in the party....I think that a cool way of promoting the label......
Buzzee........
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Tris
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
296
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 05:25
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@Handa :
Quote:
| And dont start to drag in parties that not many artists benefit from anyway. I am talking about getting paid for the music the artists make! DO YOU CARE OR NOT?
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Trance is a party music ! It was from the very beggining and still must be...
Cd are just a way to listen to music between parties...
If an artist don't play in parties that can be for many different raisons (lack of contact, bad managment, unreliable people, bad luck, you name it...) but maybe it's just because its music doesn't work on the dancefloor... It might be very good music, (relaxing, inspiring, whatever...) to listen at home but for me it's not really psytrance.... If there is a market for this kind of music, that's good with me, but if not....
So back to the topic :
Maybe people don't want to pay for their Cds but a lot of them are OK to pay (a reasonnable price that is) for party. See all the festival in Brasil... in Europe too.
So maybe it's where there is some money for people (artists, promoters, deco...) who want psytrance to be their way of life. They might not get really rich but if they are happy...
So releasing music become just a way for artist (or labels/party promoters) to make some promotion. And if they can make some money selling the tracks (on Cd or throught internet) along the way, that good for them....
I think it's where we are going or where we must try to go...
But do we need an "industry" for that ?... if only the various goverments and autorities don't make it too hard for us to make parties.
If someone can kill the scene that them. Not the mp3 downloaders....
PS : I think true art come from dedicated people. People ready to make some sacrifices to express what they have inside of them... The others are just talented workers at best.
Any psytrance VanGogh around here ?
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
1383
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 08:14
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@ tris,
I do not agree with one of your points. I think that psytrance CDs would sell more if they were less dancefloor oriented and more oriented for home listening. Why buy a CD made for the dancefloor when you can go to a party and listen to that music there. Outside of a party however, you need to own the CD so as to be able to hear the music.
I realize you said that non-dancefloor-oriented music is not psytrance, so that my answer does not contradict yours.
I realize also that not everyone thinks the same way that I do and do not want to listen to home-listening-oriented psytrance. However, all I can express my opinion about is what I think.
There
 Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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Jyotea
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
41
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 15:50
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nice tread although some points are leading nowhere. what we need and what will happen is some big shifting in the artist database.
legal downloading is indeed the future but imo dvd will score better when visuals and music will be presented to the customer and dvj's for playing gigs. the only thing I hope is that scientists invent a descent code that prevents copy (they sent cameras and robots to mars but can't stop copy.. silly)
and last but not least. education is very important, music is luxury. I grew up copy music with cassettes, which was fun but was not intended 'forbidden' by my parents. although it was out of the question if I could steal en expensive watch (just a simplified example, I never stole a watch ;-) ...). so it's in our hands and we should tell and teach our children (I don't have any yet) if they download music without paying for it with their pocketmoney (before the e-police arrests them).
we need more safety over the net and better promotion and innovation by labels. and government or music rights organisations should act harder when people earn money using illegal material on gigs and public performances. but a big part of the massive fee should go the respected artist and/or label.
markets are changing constantly but there should be a descent quality/quantity balance. and I'm willing to spend more money on music if those facts won't be fiction.(saving money before i can buy the cd will upgrade the value, like when i was a teenager and didn't go to work yet)
good artists deserve this. respect
www.omnipresence.be |
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Tris
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
16
Posts :
296
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 16:25
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-02 08:14, furthur wrote:
@ tris,
I do not agree with one of your points. I think that psytrance CDs would sell more if they were less dancefloor oriented and more oriented for home listening. Why buy a CD made for the dancefloor when you can go to a party and listen to that music there. |
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Maybe they will sell more. I don't think so... but I wish them to even if actually, I don't care that much...
I think making music and selling Cds is an idea inherited from the music industry (labels, major...) when it was not possible to do without them.
They were the essential link between artist and customer, fronting the money to release/distribute the music (and keeping the bigger part of the profits).
It always started like that : a new band would do gigs until they can make an album (costs payed by a label), get some money from it, then go on tour to promote the next one....
Now this model is changing... It just have to be the other way around...
But at the begginning, trance music was to make people dance together. And we should not forget about this.
Psytrance people are a worlwide community because we met and spend good time together at parties, not because we are listening to same music at home...
And that is what is really important to me.... |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8646
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 19:59
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-02 01:53, Spindrift wrote:
@Pavel
That is the cover art on vinyls i presume?
In that case you are one of the very few that stuck with their word that they would always stick with vinyl a bit more than 10 years ago.
Things do change, wheather you like it or not.
Seriously though, i think it's very long time until there will be no physical discs of any kind. Like mentioned before SACD or audio DVD will sure have their period as well.
But what really puzzels me is how you can be prepared to pay for normal phonecalls when you get so much better quality so much cheaper with skype??
A little USB phone for skype is not that different to use from a regular phone, is it?
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No, no, i meant the CD's. It's a psychological thing. It's not that i refuse the technology. It's subconscious. When i pay for music, i'd like to see it on the shelf. With cover art and all. As for my parents, well i got my genes from somewhere.
I am not one of those that claim that vinyls have better sound or something like that. I just like the SIGHT of the music i buy.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
45
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1383
Posted : Feb 2, 2005 20:02
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As for mp3s sold over the web, I have just received the Iboga newsletter stating that they are planning to sell their mp3s on their site starting sometime in February.
Hopefully, they will set an example for other labels.
I don't know why I am so excited, I will probably not buy individual mp3s anyways, but seeing as how people seem to want that, I definitely think it is a step in the right direction.
Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.
www.ganesha.ca |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Feb 3, 2005 14:52
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I heard about Ibogas intiative, and it's very nice to see at least one label trying to do something creative.
I really belive that will be much better than if they just signed up to one of the established download shops.
The thing with going via a download shop is that first they want 50% of the price the customer pays just for providing the download.
Thats a lot considering that a shop who actually buy in physical CD's a keep a stock of them have a lower margin than them.
Then the label take 50% again wich leaves the artists with 25% of the cost price to the customer.
Of course those figures look great if you compare with the current percentages for selling CD's, but why should you compare to that since there is so many differences.
There is no outlay of money for pressing and sending. The shop have to spend money on a shop system, but when that is up the artists have to pass on 50% of their money for the label to simply upload the track to the shop, and then the shop want more margin that a shop selling physical CD's, which is a joke IMO.
No matter how much Iboga will pass on to the artists I'm sure it will result in a better deal for both the label and the artists .
So.....  Iboga
I hope more lables will follow eventually....
If the distibutors will let them that is, because that is also currently a problem for those with exclusive disribution agreements.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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deejayridoo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
309
Posted : Feb 3, 2005 15:29
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another very good side effect of that, besides juster deal, is that this strenghtens the INDEPENDENCE from fucking mainstream music industry. 
it makes "us" a little bit more out of their control 
byebye sony, time warner, bmg, emi   
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HandA
Inactive User
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
890
Posted : Feb 3, 2005 15:50
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-03 14:52, Spindrift wrote:
I heard about Ibogas intiative, and it's very nice to see at least one label trying to do something creative.
I really belive that will be much better than if they just signed up to one of the established download shops.
The thing with going via a download shop is that first they want 50% of the price the customer pays just for providing the download.
Thats a lot considering that a shop who actually buy in physical CD's a keep a stock of them have a lower margin than them.
Then the label take 50% again wich leaves the artists with 25% of the cost price to the customer.
Of course those figures look great if you compare with the current percentages for selling CD's, but why should you compare to that since there is so many differences.
There is no outlay of money for pressing and sending. The shop have to spend money on a shop system, but when that is up the artists have to pass on 50% of their money for the label to simply upload the track to the shop, and then the shop want more margin that a shop selling physical CD's, which is a joke IMO.
No matter how much Iboga will pass on to the artists I'm sure it will result in a better deal for both the label and the artists .
So..... Iboga
I hope more lables will follow eventually....
If the distibutors will let them that is, because that is also currently a problem for those with exclusive disribution agreements.
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For once I agree with you At least the artists get a piece of the cake the way Iboga does it. And they wont drown under all the mainstream (nothing against mainstream music) artists that have a big promotion budget to use in those "commercial" online shops - such as iTunes
And certaintly not drown in those (not all) psy shops that promote what they like personally - hint: CD of the week ect! |
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The Journey Man Project
Inactive User
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
931
Posted : Feb 3, 2005 15:52
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Gravity Plus has been doing this for quite a few months now... |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Feb 14, 2005 00:03
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I like to make a little correction to the statements I made about the figures for dropping sales.
I was lead to belive that sales drop in the mainstream music industry would be about 10-15%.
That was based on RIAA's figures, which appears to be falsified.
In fact there has not been a loss in sales, but rather an increase.
This article explains how RIAA defines loss in a very decpetive way to try to strengthen thier arguments for dropping sales due to filesharing.
http://www.kensei-news.com/cgi-bin/bizdev/exec/view.cgi/21/23374
In essence they prefer to look at the number of shipped units rather than actual sales.
The way retailers work have changed though, so they try to stock less. Therefore, although they sold 10% more they try to claim that they lost sales because they shipped less.
That should mean that they are running a more efficient business and make more profit, but they prefer to account for it as loss.
Confusing, but I quote a little summary of how RIAA counts according to the article:
Quote:
| I shipped 1000 units last year and sold 700 of them. This year I sold 770 units but shipped only 930 units. I shipped 10% less units this year. And this is what the RIAA wants the public to accept as "a loss." |
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So contrary to what the impression that we been fed that record sales is going steadily down, for mainstream music at least they are actually rising.
So even less reason IMO for trance lables to blame anything else that overfloded market, bad promotion or low quality.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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Lucius
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
7
Posted : Feb 21, 2005 16:27
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The future is free
Im sure all of you workers or musicians or artist or whatever you want to label yourself make your music on legal software.
Otherwise there might be some programmer/writer somewhere in the world (or a patent holder) who is getting pissed of the illegal spreading of his patented copywrighted material.
The actual concept of the state of trance from what this music genre has borrowed its name from is much about the loss of ego and of boundarys, about the sense of freedome liberation and connecting with ones higher self. And to share this with others who are feeling the same thing.
Now, Money,Patents,Trademarks,Copywrights
is something I am trying to run away from when I am having a trance experience.
They have nothing to do with what I am trying to achive on the dancefloor
Rather the opposite.
The key word in the underground programmer
genre is still "Information must be free"
And that is from the providers of tools for numeruos modern music makers.
They made it possible from the beginning for this genre to spread,as for many others genres aswell.
If you get something for free and if you can do something with it then send it back free.
To me a Bill Gates kind of attitude is not in place in any kind of trance subject.
Then whats up for the future of the "Industry"?
Well It could be LINUX for example, It has happend a lot in the Audio projects side in recent time, It might not be as good as any Windows driven studios yet. But it might also be better than the normal OS in a near future, All for free.
To a normal CD it also comes taxes that are not going to either the label or to the artist. They just feed a system which I dont like.As it is today the tax deparment is also a part of the trance scene.
Maybe Its an old myth but it has its points.
The myth about when the CIA wanted to demoralise the AfroAmerican society with cheap crack. The idea was to suppliy them with this drug so they could sell it to eachother and become demoralised.
The leaders of the Black societys realised that they were killing each other.
But it was to late.
Not only that, it found its biggest market among the white middle ages group.
So what is my point with this off the subject story.
We should not try to make money out of eachother. Then we are forcing our friends to make money somehow (work for example)
Which is what we dont want to do, musician or not. If you really want to earn a lot of bucks do it out of the Large Community outside of the trance scene .
BOM |
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B_PM_
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
29
Posts :
54
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 14:12
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Quote:
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On 2005-02-21 16:27, Lucius wrote:
The future is free
Im sure all of you workers or musicians or artist or whatever you want to label yourself make your music on legal software.
Otherwise there might be some programmer/writer somewhere in the world (or a patent holder) who is getting pissed of the illegal spreading of his patented copywrighted material.
The actual concept of the state of trance from what this music genre has borrowed its name from is much about the loss of ego and of boundarys, about the sense of freedome liberation and connecting with ones higher self. And to share this with others who are feeling the same thing.
Now, Money,Patents,Trademarks,Copywrights
is something I am trying to run away from when I am having a trance experience.
They have nothing to do with what I am trying to achive on the dancefloor
Rather the opposite.
The key word in the underground programmer
genre is still "Information must be free"
And that is from the providers of tools for numeruos modern music makers.
They made it possible from the beginning for this genre to spread,as for many others genres aswell.
If you get something for free and if you can do something with it then send it back free.
To me a Bill Gates kind of attitude is not in place in any kind of trance subject.
Then whats up for the future of the "Industry"?
Well It could be LINUX for example, It has happend a lot in the Audio projects side in recent time, It might not be as good as any Windows driven studios yet. But it might also be better than the normal OS in a near future, All for free.
To a normal CD it also comes taxes that are not going to either the label or to the artist. They just feed a system which I dont like.As it is today the tax deparment is also a part of the trance scene.
Maybe Its an old myth but it has its points.
The myth about when the CIA wanted to demoralise the AfroAmerican society with cheap crack. The idea was to suppliy them with this drug so they could sell it to eachother and become demoralised.
The leaders of the Black societys realised that they were killing each other.
But it was to late.
Not only that, it found its biggest market among the white middle ages group.
So what is my point with this off the subject story.
We should not try to make money out of eachother. Then we are forcing our friends to make money somehow (work for example)
Which is what we dont want to do, musician or not. If you really want to earn a lot of bucks do it out of the Large Community outside of the trance scene .
BOM
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No words, u said everything man!!! Trance should set an example for the world of music and be LINUX not fucking WINDOWS!!! |
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NeutroN
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
69
Posts :
875
Posted : Feb 22, 2005 14:31
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Innovation,
We are on the era of DVD's but I have also been reading that CD's can be dual sided, which in my opinion means that their can be more tracks within a cd, also their is the possibility of surrond, now that would be a pleasure sitting back home and listening OTT on a surrond system.
I also believe that DVD's should be taking place here, labels could get together with festival organizers and produce several dvds from performances of the record label artists and the festival in general, this could also happen for parties and general promotion, the consumer today not only wants to hear but also to watch.
Also the idea of freebies has occored to me.
as a marketer, I believe the trance industry is forgetting about the marketing mix (the 4ps)
Product - the product itself, e.g. its qualities.
Price - a reasonable price according to its competitors, market leaders may charge a premium price here.
Promotion - AD, freebies etc..
Place - where is actually being sold.
the way that the industry is thinking is about them selves and the NEEDS of the customer not its DESIRE, and to be honest most people now days believe that they do not NEED to buy music.
for those who believe music should be free, why dont you go to the van gogh museum or even salvador dali's and just grab a painting and say your argument is that art should be free and that they should set an example for the world of art and be LINUX and not fucking windows
"Great things are only possible with outrageous requests." Thea Alexander |
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