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talamasca progressive?
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krelm
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 15, 2003 13:50
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To be somewhat serious...
While the track isn't anywhere close to 148bpm, the Son Kite remix of Cosma's "Out of Range" is a really damn heavy track and does work well in a set of more full-on tracks. 
To a certain extent, categorizing music makes it easier to describe to people. While the term "progressive" might not be an accurate term for the music it describes, I can describe a track to somebody as progressive or breakbeat or tribal or full-on (etc..) and they will very quickly know what I am talking about. A label can *roughly* describe in one word what would otherwise take much longer. Call it laziness. 
But when people use these labels to decide what they like or buy, then I think it is bad. When somebody says "this artist makes full-on, so I won't bother listening to their CDs" (or likewise for "progressive"), then they are making a big mistake. Or when somebody gets pissed because some "full-on artist" makes a progressive tune or plays a more progressive-sounding set (to get back to the original topic), then they are using the label to limit the scope of how the artist can present their art.
These labels and folders for music don't have to be negative, but they end up that way when used by closed-minded people. 
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Dr. Krelm DJ Mixes and Broken Symmetry archives - http://www.krelmatrix.com
Broken Symmetry on MCast - coming in 2007.... |
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-Abatwa-
IsraTrance Junior Member
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1087
Posted : Dec 15, 2003 14:53
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this thread is taken to other directions sometimes, because of my own mistake of the thread name and the first post. I really enjoy to listen to son kite, x dream(irritant stuff), atmos, cosma or any related music that is quality. I was really sad to hear a more club oriented set as this was not what I expected from talamasca. just to know what to expect from a set, as I have said I have respect if he chose this kind of music(which is not very probable) and came to a conclusion that it was cause of the crowd that an unexpected set was played. I hope this helps to the arguments about "progressive" arguments posted here.
`Bottomless wonders spring from simple rules, which are repeated without end` Mandelbrot |
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Maska
IsraTrance Junior Member
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27
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Posted : Dec 18, 2003 18:45
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Abatwa - You know what?? Just like he has a right to change, you have a right to be dissapointed that you lost Talamasca. I would be too, if I went to hear him play and he played something I really don't like too much. Doesn't mean you're being narrowminded. Means you were dissapointed. No need to explain yourself. |
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Seb
Son Kite
Started Topics :
47
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207
Posted : Dec 18, 2003 20:25
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Uncle Bob has a good point here ... as a music listener you always have the right to get surpiced or dissaointed .... BUT ... you still repspect if an artist is developing in a direction that you don't like ... respecting and disslikeing is a possible combination.
Smile! |
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Jeto
Jeto
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3252
Posted : Dec 19, 2003 00:18
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Talamasca came out with a album not too long ago.
If I went to a party to go see Talamasca I would expect to hear some song from there and some newer one maybe that is gonna be release somwhere.
Now if I hear House music or something diffrent off course I will be suprise, If I like the music I wont be disapointed,
If he played one party like this, Dont worry... |
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Chaka Laka
IsraTrance Junior Member
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471
Posted : Dec 19, 2003 01:33
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dear Abatwa , i think u hurried up to announce about Cedric's changing his style , not so fast !! The possible explanation for the set u heard is that he just tryed to accomodate the music to the certain place , or maybe he had a mood like this , but don't forget he plays a lot a lot , so here and there it doesn't come out as one expects . in place would be said that i heard him in NY last summer , and it was full on , psychedelic and melodic simultaneously , the combination he is unbeatable No. 1 in !!! i love his music
Dance is my Trance |
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Maska
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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869
Posted : Dec 19, 2003 02:18
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Don't get me wrong Seb.....An artist has a right to do anything he wants and NO ONE should put them down or criticize THEM for taking that direction. However, as Jeto stated if you just released an album and are using the same name released on that album, your fans expect to hear what they know. So, naturally they would be dissapointed if they didn't get that. I also feel as a fan of that artist, you have a right to express your opinion in a respectful way. Rude or disrespectful comments and narrowmindedness are uncalled for and should be kept to your self. |
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dj jaimz
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 19, 2003 02:21
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Personally, I would love to hear Cedric's take on progressive psytrance. Or, rather, I'd love to hear some tracks by Cedric incorporating some of the ideas behind progressive psytrance. While I suspect that what he was playing according to Abatwa wasn't what a lot of us consider to be 'progressive'. The term 'progressive' seems all to often to be used to describe something that isn't 'full-on'. Just because it's slower or clubbier doesn't mean it's progressive.
Anyway, I see the categorising of music as a real handicap to psychedelic trance. Once someone establishes in their mind what 'full-on' really means (which, by the way, seems to change from person to person), they then get confused when confronted with music that doesn't conform to what they expect. It's the same with progressive music..
What's truely important is the actual music itself. Yes, you have your own expectations when seeing an artist - that's why you've gone to see them. Instead, trust the artist as an artist. They will do what they consider to be best for the situation. Enjoy the ride. Try to think about what the artist is trying to do. As Abatwa said, probably quite accurately, Cedric was playing to the crowd. This is a sign of real professionalism. He looks out at a sea of clubbers in a club, and he plays club music. They love it, they have a great time, for the majority of the people it's money well spent. For the people who went to hear Cedric play a best-of Talamasca set, perhaps they're a little disappointed. But if Cedric plays a set that leaves more people inspired than disappointed, then he has done his job professionally.
People need to realise that for a party, the music itself, while being an incredibly important element, is simply one of many elements that creates the environment that all promoters are trying to build. This is why I personally love music that doesn't really fall neatly into a genre - for example, what's Serge making now? Is it full-on? Is it progressive? Is it something with words like 'neo' or 'cyber' or something in it? Me, I don't care. I like it, I play it, I like to listen to it. Why? Because it works.
Let's just call it all psychedelic trance. |
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Maska
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Dec 19, 2003 18:19
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Jaimz - You're right. The key word is Cedric. Cedric is an Artist and I would definitely appreciate anything he created. However, I feel if I go to see Talamasca, I am going to be extremly upset and dissapointed if he plays some trendy clubby house music. I'm sorry, but I didn't go to hear that music. Will I blame Cedric? Most likely not. I would be upset with the promoter for deceiving me.
And Serge, well Serge is making Antidote music in his style. Psychedelic Trance. |
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krelm
IsraTrance Full Member
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648
Posted : Dec 19, 2003 19:40
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For the record, Abatwa did say that Cedric played some of the tracks from his album. So any prior expectations that people had based on the name "Talamasca" being on the advertisement should have been met.
My guess is that either
a) there was some mixup on who was playing - perhaps the DJ switched and the person writing didn't see it. It's completely reasonable....I had D-Nox and Sebastian Krüger mixed up for over a year for that reason.
b) one person's idea of what is "progressive" is different from another's. Tracks that I would consider quite rough & heavy, another person might call minimal or progressive. A toned-down Cedric set, while still very full, might be considered progressive by somebody used to 150bpm balls-to-the-wall madness. This can be said about any DJ (or artist) with RANGE and DIVERSITY. 
I heard bits & pieces of a more clubby track that Cedric was working on 2 or 3 years ago. What I heard was absolutely wonderful, but I don't think anything ever came of it. He definitely has a sense for it, but it's just not what people who give him his gigs and publish his tracks want to hear.
It might sound completely crazy, but something like Son Kite vs. Talamasca could be a really interesting combination. Deep tribal-house rhythms meet thick goa melodies at 138bpm. You can all use my spare room, guys...I'll keep the beer stocked. 
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Dr. Krelm DJ Mixes and Broken Symmetry archives - http://www.krelmatrix.com
Broken Symmetry on MCast - coming in 2007.... |
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Seb
Son Kite
Started Topics :
47
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207
Posted : Dec 20, 2003 03:27
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thanks for the invitation Krelm .... I love to work with people doing completly different stuff ... haven't met talamasca personally but it would for sure be an interesting thing to check out!!!
just so you know ... there will be some Son Kite vs Atmos fighting in the studio this spring!
Since we're releasing our new albums around the same time and both of us have been working very hard on the album we felt that it would be perfect to relax a bit together and make some groovy choons!
Ciao!
Smile! |
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aje
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Dec 20, 2003 20:23
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Maska
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
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869
Posted : Dec 23, 2003 18:10
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I would definitely buy that release Krelm. Seb - Get on it.
Seriously though, that would definitely be innovative and interesting. |
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