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--TA--(traders anonymous)

Mad Ron
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  11
Posts :  56
Posted : May 19, 2004 20:57
1) a story about trading
2) a request for personal experiences about trading being helpful or not helpful
3) a request not to pressurise eachother for expressed views and experiences just this once.


I've been avidly reading all the posts about trading and I've found it very interesting. I've been working in the music business in different capacities for a few years and I can see this is an important issue.

I don't want to say too much about it now as I think just about everything has already said in terms of argument and analysis but I just want to add something to the debate on this particular forum where it seems to be raging very strongly. Apologies if this is old news.

I was on the spun records forum yesterday. There was a post from a guy who lived in Eastern europe (Montenegro) and was writing to say how much he liked the 1200 mics track "acid for nothing". He said he had downloaded it and it was different from the original or something like that.

What followed was a post from the label manager saying that he "hated all traders". I found this quite extreme as a response to what was meant to be a "fanmail" but I could see where the guy was coming from. Labels say they are beeing hit by downloaders very hard.

In the ensuing postings it emerged that in Montenegro they can't buy trance cds and they cant get credit cards to buy off the net. I felt sorry for this guy who had managed to get hold of this great music (his thoughts not mine) by 1200 mics only to be told that he was a bad person for doing so.

It was then pointed out that the track is a rip off of "money for nothing" by Dire Straits which is technically illegal. There was then a comment from the label manager that ripping off universal and ripping off spun are two different things. I thought this was a pretty sweeping statement but I know that in dance music the bootleg, remix, sample etc is one of the most important features and always has been.

In conclusion: I don't know any of these people, such is the bizarre nature of internet communication, and I don't know what they're like but it made me realize that it is not all black and white. The poor guy at the label who has to work all day promoting this album only to find that everyone is getting it off soulseek must feel pretty hurt. The poor guy in Montenegro who can't get tracks without beeing called a thief must feel pretty hurt. To be fair I don't think Mark Knoppfler is in any trouble but there is certainly more jobs being axed at Univesal this year than in the whole trance industry put together (correct me on that stat I did slightly pull it out of the air).

I went to a lecture on "The death of real music" last week given by lots of important music industry types and they all said that music doesn't suffer from technological advances only individuals do ( by losing proffits, jobs, contracts etc. Described above are at least two of these individuals and
I'm hoping that rather than giving a sided response to this post like "all traders are scum" or "look for a new and positive initiative" both of which would be more at home on the other threads about this topic, or even a considered and educated view on the issue (also more at home on the other threads) that people might use this particular one to share their own direct experiences of trading as either:

1) a serious problem for them.

2) a serious benefit for them.

I would really appreciate the chance to see that in black and white.

My special request:

If you give a personal account and tell everyone how trading effects you that is great. If you give long winded views on the issue and/or pressurise others regarding their views that is not great. No need to post on this thread if you don't want to play by those rules. I never start posts like this because I'm always dissapointed by the response so try not to screw it up for me as its just taken me about 30 mintues to write this!
Mad Ron (the second).

IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :  60
Posts :  1745
Posted : May 19, 2004 21:24
took me a while to read this post

ppl, I'm going to use my powers to back Mad Ron's (the 2nd ) request, so play by the rules he has set.

It appears that people can't read so I'll clarify something - personal direct experiences only! no general remarks on trading and downloading. plz
          Please REMOVE my cellphone number from any SMS spam list you may have. Thanks.
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  69
Posts :  875
Posted : May 19, 2004 21:36
First of all Mad Ron great story and thread man

Im not ashmed to say that once I was almost as forced to download music from the internet.

About 6-7 years ago before I was into trance. I was trying to get hold of this 311 cd - some of you may know this band not a huge famous band. anyways I used to live in Brazil I've been trying to get hold of this cd for about 1-2 years going to record stores once in a while. Then napster (i bet loads and loads of you remenber and used napster) came out. It was after 2 years in search of this cd that I've managed to get hold of it. Today I have a original copy of the cd which I bought soon after I came to England on amazon. If anyone wants prove of this please pm me and Ill send you the picture of the original cd

I already had original cds of the eletronic music such as chemical brothers etc.... more of the big mainstream artists. If it wasn't for napster during that time I might of not even come across psytrance. Which really it was THE only way to get hold fo this music, as the record stores in Brazil only sold mainstream of the mainstream and none of them were speciallized in eletronic music.

Nodays things are different with so many dedicated, effective and trustworthy websites dedicated to eletronic music where you can find enormous amounts of info about music genres, artists and where you can buy cds, and at a very affordable price.

How does trading affect me nowdays?

Well it simply doesn't. I'm not a artist or record label manager/owner. I will not criticize a person for downloading, because I've already done it, and it doesnt affect me, they are not less good ppl just because they don't do something the 'right' way.
          "Great things are only possible with outrageous requests." Thea Alexander
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  19
Posts :  623
Posted : May 20, 2004 09:59
Ok, firstly I will make a statement to say that I hope noone attacks me here when I tell my story.

I have a sorta ok paying job and have things to pay every month. The little bit of money that I have left over is usually spent on a good party which I always enjoy. Now I simply cannot afford to get a credit card here (firstly the banks are too fussy and I dont have the money) and the CD's for sale here are very expensive.

What is a trance loving girl to do??? I have such a passion for the music and I could listen to it 24/7. When I get home I love to put some good tunes on and have a good evening. I am even looking into making my own.

Since I have all these factors against me, downloading off the net was one of things that as much as I dont like the idea, was the only way that I could listen to the great productions that are coming out. I make a point of downloading maybe 2 albums per month and never give it out to anyone. It's only for myself. I don't go bragging to everyone to show them my music. And when ppl come over to visit at least I have a collection that they dont own. I do own a few CD's, only cause I had a little extra that month.

This is my story and I made a promise to myself that when I get a better pay at the end of the month I will defently buy CD's to support the amazing artists that are out there.
          :: Life can be as bitter as dragon tears
But whether dragon tears are bitter or sweet
depends entirely on how each man perceives the taste ::
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  44
Posts :  771
Posted : May 20, 2004 14:21
ok, my confession:

i used to download pirated games off the net. But, that was quite sometime ago, when i was about 14-15 (im still pretty young btw ) and even though i would have loved to own the cds (i always used to go to stores which sell games and look at all the cd covers in awe dreaming that one day, i'll buy all that i want ), i just could not afford it.

and i always love the line given by most groups, "if you love this game, buy it!". now-a-days, i earn a bit and my life has no time for games, so i don't download games. The music that i hear is mostly online streaming music and that in parties that i go to...

so there is my story....
Memory Loss
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  103
Posts :  1502
Posted : May 20, 2004 14:30
Hey All My Name Is Adam And Iam Addicted To Trading Tracks,Hehe.
Like 2 Months Ago I Trade Alot.
Now Iam Quit Of This Shit.
Just Realize The Hard Work Of The Artist.
And Iam Buy All Good Cds,Even Old Ones..
Ok Cya.           Skate 0R Die
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :  60
Posts :  1745
Posted : May 20, 2004 16:23
Forgive me father for I have sinned.
It has been very long since my last confession, I donít know where to start.
Iím cheated, stolen, took thy name in vain, committed adultery, disrespected my parents, coveted and downloaded music from the net
Remember audiogalaxy? Been there, used that, guilty as charged.

How did my downloading affect me? Well, I think that it affected me in a good way Ė I learned more about music, I broadened my knowledge of trance music and refined my taste in music. I learned to appreciate good music and delete the bad from my hard drive.
Please remember that we talk about an era that online shops didnít have audio samples to check a CD before buying and most people didnít have a broadband connection, so when I downloaded a CD that I liked, I referred to downloading it as sampling before buying and bought the CD afterwards. Nothing like the real thing (and nothing like the smell of napalm on the morning )
Since Iím not an artist or a DJ, and I used that downloaded music for my personal use and learning, I didnít mind that the quality wasnít the best. Once something was good, I bought the CD to enjoy the quality that comes with the sound.

Let me take the opportunity to apologize to anyone who might have been hurt by my actions. Just know that if you were good, I now own your CD

ďThank you for the music / the songs Iím singing
thanks for all the joy / theyíre bringing
who can live without it / I ask in all honesty
what would life be / without a song or a dance what are we
so I say thank you for the music / for giving it to me ď (ABBA, 1979)

          Please REMOVE my cellphone number from any SMS spam list you may have. Thanks.
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  320
Posted : May 21, 2004 10:26
internet, mp3 helps alot!
i always download mp3 to check out the stuff.. and!! yes and i buy the stuff if i like, wich i do most of the time, i have a nice pay every month and i live in a city with alot of psyshops.. so lifeīs good over here!

babye friends           i live for this moment here...
volvox box
Inactive User
Started Topics :  13
Posts :  410
Posted : May 21, 2004 11:51
I download tracks from new experimental unknown for me artists since i like to explore and see what else this world has to offer cause personally trance is becoming boring thing to hear.
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  155
Posts :  2037
Posted : May 22, 2004 13:38
I don't really download, because I don't have time and I'm an old (fashioned) fart and don't like to listen to music on my computer, and also I don't like MP3s really.
Also I have too much music to listen to than my time can let me.

But, I used to do the equivalent of that when I was younger. Then we just buy records and tape them for others in a group of music lovers. So we had more music than we could afford to buy ourselves.

Even these days I occassionaly burn new unknow music for me from artist that I don't know from friends.

I have one simple rule though:

If I like it- I buy (as soon as I can afford).


Beceause I want the artist to make more music I would like.

I support what I like.

If everyone follows this everything will be quite simple really.           ---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi

"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley

IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  18
Posts :  172
Posted : May 22, 2004 18:49
I like and play only wavfiles that I buy on CD when released or artist give me. I'm probably old fashioned too But it does feel good
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  100
Posts :  1480
Posted : May 22, 2004 21:08
If it wasn't for napster/openap I would never have liked trance music as I do today.

About 5 years ago, I heard about Astral Projection and I thought that maybe I should try it out. I typed"Astral Projection" in the query field, downloaded one track and fell in love with it.
A short time after I started listening to MFG (and downloaded everything of course).

Today, I buy as much CDs as I can afford (and usually more than that ) and I prowd to say that I own all the MFG CDs+the Passenger CD and ALOT of others.

Downloading also helps the music industry. If I wouldn't have downloaded that Astral Projection track (which was called Ambiance, btw), they'd have much less money today
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  375
Posts :  5032
Posted : May 22, 2004 22:43
well, i use to buy my music way before there were a sharing programs, everybody in my school knew that best present for my birthday will be a original DM tape casette:)
then its turned to CDs and from DM to more electronic music.
about 2 or litlle more years ago i saw at friend place share program and installed one on my pc, in one month i downloaded alot of stuff, listened to it and got few points:
80% of music i downloaded has absolut crap sound quality, alot of tunes were renamed and has wrong names and alot of them been cuted from mix cds or whatever..
exact at that moment i started djingand very fast i saw that play few downloaded tunes in set that i use in original mediums give a straight smell to my set becoze of low levels and quality, then in short time i educated where from come all those unrls trax or vinyls on net, from unmastered stolen sources.. so very fast i stoped downloads at all, even not for sample hearing as potential future buy, i just use net shops samples to decide if the product worth my money.
nowdays i dont have any share program installed on my pc and even more i dont have burner at my home, i just dont need both, i dont need too much music to be happy, i just pick up and buy cds and vinyls that look good for me and thats the way i acting..
          Believe your soul !
Kenji Dub
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  18
Posts :  170
Posted : May 23, 2004 10:36
Well, everybody here shall know that Im not a ashamed mp3 trader but a proud one...
6 years ago, before I have a PC at home... I was addicted CD buyer! Each time in the CD shop, was like 4 or 5 new stuff in my collection... Good times($$) Lots of money spended... Because How many times I regret about bought "shitty CDs" or "one good track only CD"...
After, Connected to internet, discovered the fabulous Napster, I start new life, I never bought CDs again. From this moment, by coincidende my economic situation was bad, because numberless strong reasons that I dont need to expose here.
Napster, Morpheus, Audio Galaxy, Kazaa and now Soulseek... Actually all I know about psytrance, and all my music are from websites and these softwares...
I download many tracks by week, and I spend lots of time listening, selecting good tunes, good quality etc. I classify everything, and I just keep in the HD the music I like. Im not a megalomaniac downloader/trader, and Im not a freak about unreleased tracks...
I just love this music, I research this music, I download it, I burn my compilations in CDs to present my friends and show them new stuff. I love to create the cover of this compilations and I dont matter about spend time listing the track/artist names in the backs...
Its like a hobby.
I did many people dance, and smile with these compilations.
Im sure that I brought lots of amazing people to this scene also! And Im glad to do so!
The news about me, is that Im starting Djing and I promisse my self to buy original CDs with each cent I receive from my sets. bcause I dont wanna play Mp3 anymore. Quality issue.
Of course, Trading will still the source to my researchs ever!
Technology comes to build the future, not to destroy the music!
We just need to understand that everything is changing naturally, and our mission is to adapt our lifes in this new way.
Or should we still with the cassete tapes?

          "...Life must to be a preparation for transition to another dimension..."
Kenji Dub
Trance Forum Ľ Ľ Forum  Trance - --TA--(traders anonymous)

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