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Sound Engineers Vs Musicians

IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : May 7, 2004 03:33
is it enough to only be a sound engineer today? from hearing the dominating music of the scene today, it sounds to me that many new artists in our scene today have little musical knowledge but much sound engineering skills to be able to put track together. the track sounds well constructed and no sounds intefere with each other... musically the track does not exist in my opinion....
it is a clever arrangement of bleeps,sweeps and creeps... sampling music and fitting it on a track does not count in my opinion... i can tell the true musicians from the mere sound engineers...

the best combo is when a musican is a sound engineer, then you have a musical (not neccesary melodic) flow and understanding and a well constructed, well produced track.

i feel like these 2 are a must.... a few artists admitted they do not know how to play any instrument at all, their tracks are their masterful skill work on cubase/logicaudio...

to me that isnt enough. what do u think?           "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
Sun Control Species

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  158
Posted : May 7, 2004 06:01
ah! a question after my own heart! with the proliferation of radical [and freely available] software in this modern day, you can see many people stepping up to the challenge of making 'beats' SOMETIMES this can even come across as actual music... but really, who says it isnt? but to be sure, i have a mate who has never been a musical person, and i mean @ all. but he invested in a studio, and over the last year has become very good. it was cool to watch him learn, starting off with really clunky music, learning about 'syncopation' and 'scales' and other musical tidbits etc, and the music grew because of this....
But there IS a sea of unchallenging tracks around because of musically challenged producers!

It comes down to what floats your boat. i must admit these days while i always love good music [collection of parts forming a cohesive whole] and good, mature storytelling, i get off in the moment ALOT by listening to simply outstanding production tweaks, and you can always see the crowd reaction to this also! It more 'tech' based approval than more traditional 'musical' approval... its like more instantaneously approved cos good production comes in mere 'moments' little slices, also tho as a whole mix. but a 'musical section' takes time to listen to, and attention, so a reaction is always a bit delayed. if ya know what i mean, the translation gap is of a different timeframe!

sry blabbing

But like u said surrender, 'not neccesarily melodic' flow... Try timSensient, a university level trained drummer. doesnt mean he doesnt know scales and melody, but his music is VERY musical rhythmically and its tops

I think that having musical knowledge always will seperate producers from those that dont. well maybe in the old world, but in todays world, you can buy musical products with slogans on the box saying 'NO MUSICAL EXPERIENCE NEEDED! MAKE MUSIC TODAY!'

hmmm, myself i spent over six or seven years on digital music, in studios, as a session muso, and studying composition @ university level... and i must admit it sometimes feels all for nothing when i see someone with no experience write a rippin track after knowing cubase for two days!! but i'm not complaining. i find more its probably defining the limitations of this music we listen to. You learn to hear the VERY SMALL elements in a track that show you the prod. is a master, not a hamster!

peace sorry for tha rant... too much COFFEE for moi!
          the FATLINE is ending
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : May 7, 2004 06:09
drooid, not rambling at all, right on the money...

i didnt want to give examples of either side on purpose, this is not the point of the thread you see... i feel if we start doing that it will turn to a battle zone and that not my intention here.

          "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  44
Posts :  771
Posted : May 7, 2004 07:01
let people make ripping tracks! what we want is good tracks, right? How does it matter whether he's a good musician or a sound engineer (or if he sucks in both also)

i wish i could make some ripping tracks myself.......... (then probably i'd stop posting things like this and post something like drooid

peace and don't fight in this thread!
Sun Control Species

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  158
Posted : May 7, 2004 07:20
for sure let people make rippin tunes no matter what! i have no problem there at all, like i said i'm not complaining, anyone who knows me knows that i support new music and artists where ever possible! and never judge someone starting out on a long and magical voyage of music

but i think the question still stands that their is or can be a difference between music created from different perspectives

musician + no production talent

musician + production talent

not musician + production talent

not and musician AND not production talent

peace all! happy writing

          the FATLINE is ending
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  24
Posts :  126
Posted : May 7, 2004 07:25
actually i think for being a good trance maker u should know about both... why make music ... and dont make it sound good... u know what i mean? and i know some great musicians knows a lot of enginering (gabe/wrecked machines) and i love is musical talent, anyway straight to the point...

anyway as a musician u want to give quality when u make ur tracks ( otherwise why u should try to sell them and etc hahah) and not going to the comercial side... quality must be a priority thats why i think u should know a lot of enginering and basicly know all about music...

beeing both i think is ideal... at least im going for both hahha
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  44
Posts :  771
Posted : May 7, 2004 10:26
not and musician AND not production talent

could be a great starting point for some really creative talent (need lots of luck though)
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  101
Posts :  3239
Posted : May 7, 2004 11:54
Without questions, being both is what you hear in the end...

And yes let me tell you that today, sound engineer is much much more important than musically skilled person - when talking about dancefloors, sound quality and label releases.

I just hope everyone finds each world fascinating and put energy in both. I know I do.

PS: a Musician is a person who plays a musical instrument.
A person with musical talent, is one who is able to create musical ideas.          Crackling universes dive into their own neverending crackle...
Mike A

Started Topics :  185
Posts :  3954
Posted : May 7, 2004 14:42
Did you try listening to melodic morning music?
Those tracks are quite musical..
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  76
Posts :  2014
Posted : May 7, 2004 16:31
Ofcourse you have to be musical, being a soundengineer is not enough. But it isn't necessary to finish a musical education first to make psytrance. If you have a little musical feeling you can still make great psytrance. Most of the producers in the scene don't have any skills in both directions, but still they make cracking psytrance, be it progressive, full on or whatever style.           "Subconscious unravels at the point of death, and all time it has known erupts into a moment. As death extinguishes us, so we become it."

[Esoteric: Subconscious Dissolution Into The Continuum]
Inactive User

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  28
Posted : May 7, 2004 17:38
hehe good one...

In the past it was the musicians who would take all the sansation of a don't matter which scene... Now with eletronic music no musician necessary, than we all able to see what is really important.

A friend once told me that before the musician made the scene, now is the dance floor that makes the scene, by that thought I wonder which reason makes the sound engeneers always anonimos, maybe is a freedon they need to calculate the sound? wharever....

IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  402
Posted : May 7, 2004 18:49
Well lets talk about music in general these days and not only about trance music: Hip Hop which is probably the most popular music in the world is full of non-musical talent. IMO hip hop is pure production and lyrical talent. I mean hey Ya by outcast - that track is made by the slight sound of the three notes of the synthesiser that plays ever so often in that track. I think you be be none and still make good music. I agree with Das Fungs quote of einstien. Sometimes the most creative are the ones that know nothing - so they go purely by gut instinct - which causes them to create something that is new and refreshing.

- - - - -
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  11
Posts :  132
Posted : May 7, 2004 18:59
blaming "musicians" to not having this or that skill is like blaming kids to not beiing grown up.

i think the lack of "music" in our music that u feel is the lack of care of the releasing label. so lets blame the labels... hehe
          just gimme more of the same. its just a test!
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  20
Posts :  173
Posted : May 7, 2004 19:45
music is an universal language, anybody with a sense of rythm can compose without be a conservatory music, well this is like the punk movement, you can do it yourself, is one of the romantic points in the electronic music.
today with the combo of technologies is not really dificult do some track, a good track, well, maybe this is more dificult...
Trance Forum  Forum  Trance - Sound Engineers Vs Musicians

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