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so dj's huh what makes 'em
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 19, 2002 21:06
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Well, I believe that a DJ is an artist - but I don't think he has to be so blunt. He can be a director of a symphony rather than the composer, and I think that it works very well that way.
Yes, I appreciate the artistic act of the DJ, but really, the result IMO is more important than the way. I say this because I'm giving an opinion as one of the people on the dancefloor rather than a music critic. What works, works. Artists make stuff that I like to dance to. Most DJs keep it at that - they build the set in the right order, pick the tracks that they like, beatmatch, take loops from time to time, but still, saying that the loops that DJs use are more important than the tracks they take it from is an exaggeration (unless a DJ really knows what he's doing, but I haven't seen that many DJs in the trance scene that do that - unlike the techno/house DJs).
With all due respect to even the best DJs I ever heard, put a good Shiva Chandra track for 6 minutes on it's own, and I'll enjoy it more than any sampling trick out there.
  http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Borris
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Jun 20, 2002 00:05
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Kaz, I agree the result is more important. but I think that people dancing is not the only result i seek to acheive. when you paint a painting what result do you seek? or when you make a sculpture? and why do you diferentiate between house/techno DJ's and Trance DJ's? why make discounts?? a DJ is a DJ, it doesn't matter what he plays. the fact that there are hardly any israeli DJ's that can really play trance (and not that many, but a few more that can really spin techno or house) is no cause for discounts. People are quite easy to please, I want to see a DJ manage to please both the people and the Critycs, I know it's extremly hard, like making a very good movie, most films are either comercial sucsess but the critics dice them (like the new star wars flic, dreadfull) or they fail the ticket boxes but the critics hail them. I as an artist am trying to do something that will be accepted on both sides (and there were some films like that as well) I agree it's harder, that's why most people try and do either one or the other but not both. remember, it's art were dealing with and I see the DJ more like a painter then a common entertainer. yes I should allways remember that people have paid to enjoy and not loose the fun part of playing but I know that this is quite easy, and I'm trying for the harder things. maybee I'm pushing myself too much but that's just the way i am.
oh, and IMHO a conductor of a symphony is more then your average DJ since he has much more control over the orchestra then a Trance DJ over his set. up to the point that they actualy do variations on themes somethimes.
Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire! |
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tom anteater
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 20, 2002 00:57
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i think it is fair to differentiate between djs of different types of music as performers. For the simple reason that they are expected to deliver different kinds of performances by their respective crowds. A techno crowd watching jeff mills is waiting to see amazing mix technique with each tune only in the mix for, like 30 seconds or something (i'm not kidding, check jeff mills live at the liquid rooms tokyo on react recs for proof). A trance crowd wants to be rocked by amazing tracks and taken on a journey by the dj (lovely mix compilation series in UK for a long time called journeys by dj, great name, great albums, not psy though), this does not necessarily require great technical virtuosity on the part of the dj. But to insist art DOES require exceptional technical skill is to miss the point i think. For surely it is your reaction to some art (in this case a dj set), and the effect the artist (dj) intended that is important.
anyway, this not to belittle amazing mixing skill, just to debate its primacy...
peace 
>>love will tear us apart...<< |
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chromozontal
Started Topics :
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111
Posted : Jun 20, 2002 01:37
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I accept with the DR..... but the the trax must get more- 3 for mixing 1.5 for trax and 0.5 for order
and with yosi's 0.1 for acting. 
but I don't get 1 thing , what to you meen by order???
D DO DOC DOCTO DOCTOR HOFMANNNNN !!!!! |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 20, 2002 01:38
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I personally will try to strangle a DJ that opens his set with Skazi - Storm. You do not start with a track like that - you build up to it. That's order.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Borris
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Jun 20, 2002 01:39
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Same here, I'm sticking to my point that to be a great artist exceptional technique is needed. you know Mickaelangelo wasn't the oly painter/sculptor of his age, but he stood out. on the other hand, sheer technique isn't enough, But you can't be great without having a technical base. my Directing teacher (at film school) once told me that Picaso could draw standart pictures better then anyone else at his time and only then when he had the technique mastered has he gone forward to break the rules, i have a similar belief about my Dj set, only once I can do to sound whatever i want on the DJ stand can i go on and create something truly great. and yes i have very high goals, but unless you set your goals high you will never reach them.
Oh kaz, and on that magnitude of order i apply it to technique, I see this as a basic DJ technique knowing how to hold and let go with the music, and excuse me but if you are doing a 6:30 AM set you might start with skazi, keep on for half an hour on 142 and then start releasing it a bit, so this is all posible.
[ This Message was edited by: Dr. Borris on 2002-06-20 01:43 ] Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire! |
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Wolf
Purple Passion
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254
Posted : Jun 20, 2002 02:28
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well a conductor is much more skilled than a DJ because he can actually read the music(notes) in front of him and will be an excellent all round musician. Most DJ's don't know anything about MUSIC.
Having said that i respect Dj'ing as an art form, and i love to listen and dance to beat matched sets with a real story and vibe. but it really has little respect amongst the musicians circle, and i'm not talking only about trance.
My advice to people would be pick up an instrument/music softwares and start writing music, Dj'ing will come later on in one's musical path.
Cheers. |
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HIKARI
IsraTrance Junior Member
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611
Posted : Jun 20, 2002 08:26
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2 for the selection
1 for the order
2 for the mixing
I doubt you can call somebody who cant mix, a dj.
A good dj can mix good and make a good story.
I personally go to parties to hear new trax and learn new mixing techniques. I hate to see dj`s who cant mix. I dont care if his tracks are killer, it just ruins the track if he mixes it in all badly.
A dj is a another type of art form, like somebody else said. You create new sounds and new stuff by mixing and adding in your own taste.
I really admire those techno dj`s they are killer!!! |
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Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 20, 2002 09:43
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About the conducter having more control - well an orchestra just has a lot more elements in it than a trance track. I don't think that relatively the trance DJ has less control. Since trance is just WAY more minimal than orchestral music, it's just easier to make a big change. A hihat sequence in psy trance makes a world of a difference.
And still - I think that good order and music are at least as important as technique.
http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222 |
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Borris
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Jun 20, 2002 13:08
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again kaz, i found out from my experience that if your mixing is good you can get away with anything. but a very bad track in the wrong time see it doesn't work and just mix on top of it and get rid of ot within 45 seconds. good technique also helps you cover mistakes. ::grin::
Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire! |
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Zombi
IsraTrance Senior Member
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Posted : Jun 20, 2002 13:43
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enough theories of "behind the scene", lets talk bueness.
in particular order:
1. music choice - 1.6666667 - first position. if i dont like the music dj play i have no reason to continue the listening.
2. mixing skills - 1.6666667 - second position. lets say i like the musical direction, so i check the mix.
3. order (not ordanata) - 1.66667 - the music is great, mix is perfect and clear, lets hope the oreder will right and culmination will come at the right time and at some another seconds we will have some time to chill, dream and look around.
bonus - show, yeah, ther is some dj's that realy have energetic fields that they share with public.
as u see i give same points to every categorie but the order of categories is importent. no music = no listening. no mixes = no matter of order. no order (and not first and second categories) = dj can smile but WHOLE WORLD WILL NOT SMILE RIGHT BACK TO HIM.
[ This Message was edited by: Zombi Cocktail on 2002-06-20 13:45 ]
[ This Message was edited by: Zombi Cocktail on 2002-06-20 13:46 ] Believe your soul ! |
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tom anteater
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Jun 20, 2002 14:25
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zombi, you appear to have given more than five marks
borris, the old picasso chestnut is well known (and true). But i don't see why it is important to us as consumers of a particular painting (say), that maybe did not require great technical skill, whether or not the executor does possess great technical skill..
however, i think this is starting to stray from the point a little as, well, i'm not sure anyone is ready for conceptual or dadaist trance mixing yet!! maybe aphex twin closest so far..
>>love will tear us apart...<< |
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Luiz Paulo
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jun 20, 2002 14:33
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Just to strain a little off topic on your Aphex Twin remark tom: ever heard of Max/MSP?
It's a music software that's so powerful and hard to learn most ppl don't even dare coming next to it, think of Reason for geniuses....well, Aphex makes music using that....talk about one dominating the tools. Just like the Picasso example Doc put forward.
As for me, I'd go for Eli's definition.
But I'd really like one day to see Borris doing his thing....
the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist.... |
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Rabbitalien
Started Topics :
4
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216
Posted : Jun 20, 2002 14:58
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Every Good Dj must be able to:
a) Choose the greatest possible tracks(quality is not always the main thing) for a particular party ,crowd,time,style e.t.c
b) Play them in logical order,which depends of the location,people,time,mood,track style,bpm and other factors.
c) Mix the tracks without any errors ,add a your mixing style in the tracks.(mixing music can be as difficult as composing music)
d) Communicate with people(smile,speak,look), enjoy music, and why not dance or bounce a bit...feel your mixing...
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Zombi
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jun 20, 2002 14:58
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tom, tryed once do 5/3 ?? its 1.666...
Believe your soul ! |
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