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review: shpongle may 2nd 2009 @ irving plaza, NYC
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : May 8, 2009 10:45
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People fall in and out of music all the time. Their tastes begin to diverge over time. When they are actually making music, this change often gets reflected in what they create. Also, spirituality has a different meaning depending on who you ask. Different styles of music have different spiritual significance to different people also. Especially when you become so immersed in a certain style or structure of music, you begin to see the ways in which those structures begin to limit one's creative vision. You begin to envision ways to bend the rules that those structures have imposed upon your learning. Great composers from all genres and throughout time have become known for this and this is what makes them stand out amongst their peers. First one needs to learn the rules, and then one learns how to break them. Sometimes the result isn't as good, or at least what we expected of them. Personally though I would rather him make the type of sound that he is urged to make rather than something forced and contrived, even if I may not personally be satisfied with the result. That's the turning point where playing from the heart becomes catering to the masses.
Not to belittle your experiences by comparing, Wichdokta, but Simon has put loads of energy into his craft and whether his music suits an individual's personal fancy, what he has done has made a hugely positive impact on our music. Of course everyone is different but sometimes when one devotes that much time and energy into something, the well runs dry and it takes something else to provide that refreshment. Feelings and changes like this are natural and if it weren't for dissatisfaction and burnout, there would be no evolution in sound and idea. The music would sound exactly the same as when it was first born. Personally I'm thankful for these sorts of things because to me, the styles are only sounding better and better.
I do agree fully that Simon is a very shrewd businessman when it comes to his music, but to his credit I would say that at least he isn't as obvious and blatant about it as, say, Infected. I do think it's sad that what used to be situations like shows with huge orchestras on top of Mount Fuji has turned into DJ sets accompanied by brightly colored lights. Simon has indeed created a huge wave through Hallucinogen and later Shpongle, a wave that he's been riding for years now. I can't really blame him, though. If it were me and I was faced with the choice of riding that wave and going back to the "real world" and some boring day job I cared even less about, who's to say I or any of us wouldn't do the same. I hope I never have to make that choice, though. It's an inevitability that at one point down the road, circumstances in my life will change and this will affect the music life that I enjoy currently. For the moment, I'm very happy with what this music has brought to me and I feel very humbly blessed; I have more energy than ever before to continue this path. I don't see it happening any time soon, but things could always change... change is the only constant. My personal tastes have changed a lot over my 10 years immersed in this music so it's only logical that they will change further 10 years from now. Who knows what that will bring.
As far as the demo thing... that sounds like It would have been a disheartening thing to be met with such a reaction from someone I looked up to. I had a similar experience with Infected when I met them. It's certainly an unpleasant eye-opener; it was for me when I met them and offered them my demo. However, there are always positive lessons to be gleaned from negative events. To Simon's and Infected's credit, at least they were honest about it, and didn't put up a false front and pitch the demo in the trash as soon as they went around the corner, snickering jokes like a lot of others could have done. People like that get bombarded with so many demos every show that it would literally take days per gig to soak it all up.
I'm not trying to disparage anyone else's point of view here, rather than just offer my own and maybe play some devil's advocate.
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wichdokta
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
845
Posted : May 8, 2009 17:54
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Great points! Everyone has there own tastes and changes in life. I'm a schooled drummer who's been playing almost every type of music out there. Toured for years with a bunch of bands and have to say I still love it all. Psytrance shows are the shows I go to least. I'm 38 yrs. old and I still love psytrance. I think I've been in the scene as long as Simon and still can't believe his statement to my friend. He was crushed. If you make a living on other folks liking and buying your music, you should give 2 shits about your fans. He does not! |
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billy boogie
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
Posts :
494
Posted : May 8, 2009 19:38
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Quote:
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On 2009-05-07 19:11, wichdokta wrote:
I, as an elder of the psy scene here in the States, want and except every demo givin to me. I listen to it and give feed back to the person who gave it to me. Big up the next generation. And be nice to your fellow music lovers!
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This is admirable... I DJ some psytrance and have had some NASTY remarks from established people in the scene (who will remain nameless) who clearly didn't listen to the mix and was only trying to keep anyone from "stepping on his/her toes". There really should be nothing but encouragement for these people. Constructive citicism is one thing, trash talking is another. Big up to the next generation indeed. Come together!
 www.dants.net |
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Audio Virus
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
76
Posted : May 10, 2009 01:02
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : May 10, 2009 01:25
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Quote:
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On 2009-05-08 10:45, Axis Mundi wrote:
If it were me and I was faced with the choice of riding that wave and going back to the "real world" and some boring day job I cared even less about, who's to say I or any of us wouldn't do the same.
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To be fair (and to my admittedly incomplete knowledge), this is not a choice Simon has had to - or likely ever will have to - make, being lucky enough in the first instance to have an affluent family that was well able to support and indulge him in his creativity, in the second instance to be talented enough to produce music that many people enjoy, and in the third instance to be astute enough to surround himself with people willing and able to help him capitalise on his good fortune. Would that we could all get given an Audi TT for our birthdays, write a track like LSD or Divine Moments of Truth, and have Simon Holtom managing our business!
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : May 10, 2009 04:56
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That's very true, and a lot closer to what I was trying to say than the way I had worded it. I guess what I meant was, to capitalize upon ones talents and success even if it was something one wasn't interested in as much anymore or do something one wasn't necessarily wired for and didn't want to do (like a random day job) the choice to keep up with the music life would be a lot more appealing to most.
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maximjou
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
39
Posts :
297
Posted : May 11, 2009 19:19
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WOOOWWW why is everyone talking ^(*IT about simon he makes some of the most beutiful music out there, he didnt leave the scene hes moving beyond it, Camp Bisco is what introduced him to a diffent audience and people love him, everyones likes his musis my friends who listen to punk rock and metal like him, you cant not like his music and at the end of the day its all its about. He makes people happy and enjoy themselves, and if he makes millins of dollars good for him he deserves every penny. And all you psy trancers and producers that are hating him for leaving the sceene or anything else STOP being so judgemental because maybe thats why you guys are still playing forest parties and not big inernational festivals with demand. I know alot of u say a small festival has better vibes and good people and all. well so do big festivals and so does camp bisco. Tired of people talking garbage about one of the best producers out there. I mean SKAZI AND IM yeh sure , but simon? and seconds of all he doesnt have to listen to anyones demos if he doesnt want to, atleast hes honest hes gotta go make his own money. now that he woke people up and everyone wants to go see him he dseserves all that money. And once you crying producers get to that level then maybe you should take the money and live a comfortable life instead of being real and at the end of the day sleeping on a couch. |
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alchemism
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
67
Posted : May 11, 2009 20:05
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The punk scene has been having this argument for 30 years.
The 15 year old kids hearing "sell-out" Shpongle might very well be the 25 year olds dancing at our best psy parties in ten years time...
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : May 11, 2009 21:59
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Quote:
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On 2009-05-11 19:19, maximjou wrote:
WOOOWWW why is everyone talking ^(*IT about simon he makes some of the most beutiful music out there, he didnt leave the scene hes moving beyond it, Camp Bisco is what introduced him to a diffent audience and people love him, everyones likes his musis my friends who listen to punk rock and metal like him, you cant not like his music and at the end of the day its all its about. He makes people happy and enjoy themselves, and if he makes millins of dollars good for him he deserves every penny. And all you psy trancers and producers that are hating him for leaving the sceene or anything else STOP being so judgemental because maybe thats why you guys are still playing forest parties and not big inernational festivals with demand. I know alot of u say a small festival has better vibes and good people and all. well so do big festivals and so does camp bisco. Tired of people talking garbage about one of the best producers out there. I mean SKAZI AND IM yeh sure , but simon? and seconds of all he doesnt have to listen to anyones demos if he doesnt want to, atleast hes honest hes gotta go make his own money. now that he woke people up and everyone wants to go see him he dseserves all that money. And once you crying producers get to that level then maybe you should take the money and live a comfortable life instead of being real and at the end of the day sleeping on a couch.
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I'm not sure which "producers" you're talking to, but if you're referring to me since my name is in blue, then maybe you should go back and re-read my post where you will see that I was actually defending Simon's position and offering a different viewpoint as to the truth of how people's musical tastes change. OOOD is the only other "producer" in this thread that I can see who has posted anything, and quite frankly, since I as well as most others can't really hold a candle to his talent or experience in the musical scene (especially the UK scene which he is an intimate part of as well as his colleague Simon) I'm inclined to take what he has to say seriously, on top of the fact that Colin is not the kind of person who would "talk shit" about a person for no good reason. (Besides, I highly doubt that OOOD sleeps on a couch unless he chooses to... don't know what sleeping on couches has to do with your point or what you're trying to say about people's social status relating to your own, but whatever. COuches aren't so bad.) So maybe you should too, and not open your yap spilling out the same sort of behavior you are accusing the rest of us for doing, kthxbai. 
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Androcell
Androcell
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
409
Posted : May 12, 2009 00:27
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My thoughts are this:
DJs need to give their promos to "promoters" not artists. Professional artists don't seem to book anyone from what I see, they seem to be trying to make a living on their music. If you want feedback there are much better outlets for that than a busy artist who probably wouldn't make the time for it if they could. Also, maybe DJ's need to jump to compact sticks for promos. More ecologically responsible as the recipient can get some use out of it whether they like the content or not. I bet Simon would have taken a jump drive as a promo because he could always get a use out of it in spite all. Maybe as they become ever more commonplace and cheap people will continually be handing off jump drives to one another for promos and reusing them. Get a promo stick from a DJ, grab the files, load it up with your own promo stuff and be ready to hand it off. I'm tired of all the plastic discs piling up.
I prefer the idiom "cash in" instead of "sell out" when I see an artist create their worth. When an artist has worked to build a following going such as him, you'd have to have brain damage not to take the money and run. I think it is the peoples problem who are PAYING to see a show that they can almost guarantee will be little new and then complaining about it, before I'm going to blame an artist who is continually trying to "cash in" on the hard work they put forth to make outstanding music.
I had a face-to-face conversation with another very respected Twisted Records artist about doing a remix and he blatantly made it clear that there "is no money for me in it, now is there??" and have yet to get the files that he has told me 3 times he would get together at some point. But I understand totally and would never hold it against him because time is money and precious in this field. I decided it was
never to be because it's not lucrative for said party involved. So don't pigeonhole artists for being business-minded and seizing opportunity. Anyone who is really "making it" in this business is doing the same thing, it's just that not everyone has time to analyze every artist's "slide" under their microscope.
So many just grab their binoculars and scan the horizon for the easiest target in sight to criticize. 
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Axis Mundi
Axis Mundi
Started Topics :
75
Posts :
1848
Posted : May 12, 2009 00:40
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That was well said. I especially think your idea of jump drive demos is brilliant. I never considered that as a viable option before but it makes a lot of practical sense and given your prediction of the direction it may go it seems very plausible and sensible. I have a lot of respect for that idea.
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Green Sector
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
63
Posted : May 12, 2009 01:59
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Yay for flash drives... i get a lot of demos from people and would love it if they came in this format. Androcell said what I've been thinking during this whole thread, people should be giving thier demos to promoters so they can get booked and let the crowd be the judge of thier music...
Also, Simon is the man because he has come out to 2 parties at Woodley park of his own accord, not to play or do any kind of "business"... simply to come and hang out with the trance people and listen to the music because he happened to be in town. That makes him way cool in my book. Most artists don't even hang out on the dance floor at parties they are actually playing at! And here Simon is out there dancing on a Sunday at a tiny party in Cali... If that doesn't show that he still loves the music and the people, I don't know what does.
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sidetrakkt
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
46
Posted : May 12, 2009 02:46
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Also, I think there is a big difference between LISTENING to (other people's)trance and MAKING trance. While it's clear from his various other non-Hallucinogen projects that he is interested in many styles of music, and even several years ago had publicly said that he was finding more inspiration in downtempo at the time (which is probably why there have been 3 Shpongle albums and 1 + Celtic Cross album since the most recent Hallucinogen album...). However, I have seen him play several times as Hallucinogen and every time he is very into the music he is playing and seems to be having a great time on stage. In addition, every time I have seen him play, he is present on the dancefloor well before and after his set, grooving to the other music and interacting with the people.
So to say he is selling out because he is making music he "doesn't like" is completely false. I think he has too much integrity as an artist to make and release anything he is not into. I think his comment about not listening to trance was probably in reference to what he listens to on his own, not what he makes in his studio or listens to at parties/festivals. Which is probably a good thing, as it increases and diversifies his influences. In general, the artists whose music I most enjoy are those who have eclectic musical backgrounds (jazz, classical, rock, etc.) rather than those who only listen to trance. Listening to only the style of music you are making is what can make so much music sound identical and uninspired... |
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konflux
Konflux
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
811
Posted : May 12, 2009 03:59
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Jump drives are cool and a good way to go if you don't want your CD to be thrown into the pile. But if you do decide to go with CD, include WAV or MP3 versions of the tracks making sure they are named properly (artist - track title) with ID3 tags filled in (in case of mpegs). Most of us, music lovers, use digital audio players these days (e.g. iPod) and it's always a pain in the neck to import tracks from CDs and attempt to later identify what is what and by who.
myspace.com/konfluxpsy | www.konfluxmusic.net | PsyTribe | Phar Psyde Recs. | Logical Light Recs.
For CD releases:
http://www.saikosounds.com/english/search.asp?search_str=konflux |
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wichdokta
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
35
Posts :
845
Posted : May 13, 2009 18:18
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I want to thank everyone who joined in on this conversation. You all have great points. Bom |
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