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question to producers and all

Mike A
Subra

Started Topics :  185
Posts :  3954
Posted : Mar 13, 2008 23:16
Quote:

On 2008-03-11 07:18, mk47 wrote:
one would be hard pressed to point out a low quality chill release .. so maybe it is more difficult .. i guess .. trance even a no talent punter like myself can put together some scratchy beats lol .. which is not to say that all trance is crap of course .. but just judging by the sheer numbers of really poor low quality psytrance releases ...



Maybe it means Trance is harder? Otherwise you'd see many good releases
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle

Started Topics :  158
Posts :  5306
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 04:56
Quote:

On 2008-03-13 16:39, Addictive Elements wrote:

Chillout....now i guess is much more difficult and complex....if ur talkin abt ethno chillout (with world instruments etc combined in the tune) Eg :stuff like what Ott, shpongle,buddha bar ,lounge .....



its way harder to use "spectrasonics vocal planet" sample cd then "vengence effects vol. 2"

neh , the real trick is to do whatever you do GOOD.

nothing is harder then anything its totaly personal thing and involve more the mood and spirit in you then the actual cubase work           www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
Yuli
Retired

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  1660
Posted : Mar 14, 2008 11:32
Quote:

On 2008-03-12 13:45, Soul Kontakt wrote:
In my opinion both are very difficult to produce but i think Trance is much more difficult because of it's particular expression.



Especially because of this "particular expression" Trance is not a very hard genre of music to make, in fact, hordes of new producers that are flooding the scene ( including myself hehe ) are a good example of this

Quote:

You see in chillout you can vary and create whatever you like whatever you want to experiment you can.



Now you have explained exactly why chill / downtempo is far more sophisticated and hard to create - IMO to make every new track different, without same patterns and melodies is far more harder than to make a copy of a previous ( sometimes just to leave the mix as it was in previous track and make new one on the same project )

Quote:

In Trance you always have to put a motherfucker beat to it..



That usually is taken from billions of sample CDs out there - I don't know if there are much trance producers today that actually create their own groove.

Quote:

..which also limits your creation because most of the frequency spectrum is already pumping with sounds.



Much harder my friend, to make 3 sounds feel as big as 25... Or in other way to say it - to create good sound with few sounds demands from you to be a very good producer, in my opinion more skilled then to put 20 sounds one on top of the other to create so called "wall of sound". And having said that I know some very respected chill producers that have more than 100 channels in each track

Quote:

Also in trance music you listen to it at 145bpm which is very fast compared to a 120bpm chillout or less. When you make music and you can listen slowly you can make the sound more perfect, but the faster it gets the more difficult it becomes to design your music's dynamics and scapes...



Don't agree at all. Trance solves the 145 bpm problem by cutting down the low frequencies very hard on 30 - 40 hz, thus shortening the wave length of the signal + use super short notes while writing percussion and some lead patterns.. Sound design while making chill is as hard if not more because to produce well a sound coming from Live played instrument ( such as violin or a trumpet ), is much harder and the producer has to obtain a lot of more previous knowledge about miking, compression and eq.

Quote:

We have made once a chillout track Inner Scapes which was quite a good result in a week...You can listen to it on our website http://www.soulkontakt.com still it's got the SK Feeling but it's chillout, we really enjoyed making this track and in my opinion was pretty easy to get a good sound! Much more easy than Trance for sure...



Did you sell this track to a worthy chill out label, such as maybe Aleph Zero? I mean a REAL chill out label, not one that puts now and then a compilation to get some more $$ out of the industry.. If you did, I will take my doubts off, and my hat off.. But if you did not, then wait till you do, and then tell if making Trance is far harder then making chill out.

          A man with a "master plan" is often a woman
Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle

Started Topics :  158
Posts :  5306
Posted : Mar 15, 2008 19:26
well , lets get technical then...

i do think it is way way way easier to get "bigger" sound with only 3 sounds rather then 20 , since they fit to (almost) same box

does kick alone in 0db sound bigger then the same kick in a full track on 0db ? sure , since in the mix its -10 db (example) , when the other 10db filled with other instruments

so if you have to fit 3 sounds , i can easy see how they can get bigger without limits almost (reverbs , volume , eq boosts etc. since it will almost never "get red" or clash with something since the sound is solo or with subtle background only)
(also back to why 90% of the psy producers will never have kick and bass play the same time , not without harsh sidechain for sure - tho as long you dont limit it there is absoulutly no problem with it , but rms counts today sadly)
for me anywayz like i said its more mood situation ,inspiration wise for me ambient is way harder
          www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/
waveshapist
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  29
Posts :  68
Posted : Mar 15, 2008 20:26
Quote:

On 2008-03-14 11:32, Yuli wrote:
Quote:

On 2008-03-12 13:45, Soul Kontakt wrote:
In my opinion both are very difficult to produce but i think Trance is much more difficult because of it's particular expression.



Especially because of this "particular expression" Trance is not a very hard genre of music to make, in fact, hordes of new producers that are flooding the scene ( including myself hehe ) are a good example of this

Quote:

You see in chillout you can vary and create whatever you like whatever you want to experiment you can.



Now you have explained exactly why chill / downtempo is far more sophisticated and hard to create - IMO to make every new track different, without same patterns and melodies is far more harder than to make a copy of a previous ( sometimes just to leave the mix as it was in previous track and make new one on the same project )

Quote:

In Trance you always have to put a motherfucker beat to it..



That usually is taken from billions of sample CDs out there - I don't know if there are much trance producers today that actually create their own groove.

Quote:

..which also limits your creation because most of the frequency spectrum is already pumping with sounds.



Much harder my friend, to make 3 sounds feel as big as 25... Or in other way to say it - to create good sound with few sounds demands from you to be a very good producer, in my opinion more skilled then to put 20 sounds one on top of the other to create so called "wall of sound". And having said that I know some very respected chill producers that have more than 100 channels in each track

Quote:

Also in trance music you listen to it at 145bpm which is very fast compared to a 120bpm chillout or less. When you make music and you can listen slowly you can make the sound more perfect, but the faster it gets the more difficult it becomes to design your music's dynamics and scapes...



Don't agree at all. Trance solves the 145 bpm problem by cutting down the low frequencies very hard on 30 - 40 hz, thus shortening the wave length of the signal + use super short notes while writing percussion and some lead patterns.. Sound design while making chill is as hard if not more because to produce well a sound coming from Live played instrument ( such as violin or a trumpet ), is much harder and the producer has to obtain a lot of more previous knowledge about miking, compression and eq.

Quote:

We have made once a chillout track Inner Scapes which was quite a good result in a week...You can listen to it on our website http://www.soulkontakt.com still it's got the SK Feeling but it's chillout, we really enjoyed making this track and in my opinion was pretty easy to get a good sound! Much more easy than Trance for sure...



Did you sell this track to a worthy chill out label, such as maybe Aleph Zero? I mean a REAL chill out label, not one that puts now and then a compilation to get some more $$ out of the industry.. If you did, I will take my doubts off, and my hat off.. But if you did not, then wait till you do, and then tell if making Trance is far harder then making chill out.




This entire post is why I said trance is very easy music to make OK. IT is too easy to make crap trance.

Try making special trance. You make all the drums sounds, not use samples, you make all you noise sweeps, all bass.

If you make 4 real electronica, without sample cds, and without the use of synth presets, you will see.

It is very difficult to make good and original music.

ORIGINAL music. it is too easy with all the tech around now, to make " recycle ' music.


CHeers
Yuli
Retired

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  1660
Posted : Mar 15, 2008 21:22
I think the question was pretty clear, and I answered according to what we have in our market, not according to what I wish to have. Of course Hallucinogen and his gang quality of creation is equal in my book to any high end chill out and more in a way, since it's so complex.. But 95% of the dance floor stuff today is not like that in Trance or Prog, so I relate to the vast majority and not to my personal favourites.           A man with a "master plan" is often a woman
Soul Kontakt
Soul Kontakt

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  632
Posted : Mar 15, 2008 21:24
Sorry but i think you may have misunderstood my point when i say Trance is harder i mean Trance like for example Space Cat - Power up...i don't mean Pop Trance or other stuff which in my opinion is pretty easy...I love both trance and chillout and i know that chillout is much better produced than psytrance right now...As for producers useing sample cd's well man it depends because even chillout they use sample cd's also for sure. Beleive it or not we use a Juno-G Synth for our drums and all our music is made in the studio using only hardware right now, we love to make each sound using the best quality we can, rarily nowadays we use software except for sequencing and some eq.

I think that there is not competition between Psytrance and Chillout both can be greatly enjoyed and experimented upon infinately, but with all due respect from my experience in music Trance is harder to make. Maybe for me i don't know but this is what i feel.
          Boom :)

SOUL KONTAKT - 12th Planet new track on www.myspace.com/soulkontakt
Soul Kontakt Live for demo or booking email soulkontakt@hotmail.com
www.soulkontakt.com
Dogon
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  50
Posts :  8780
Posted : Mar 15, 2008 21:28
I think difficulty & simplicity is again subjective as the likeness for music.

IMO it's the flow of ideas & creativity of the producer/composer, that decides the output.

If you run out of ideas for creating new stuff, it's difficult & if new ideas flow constantly it's easy.

          We were born naked & grow up to become wicked.
ocelot
ocelot

Started Topics :  94
Posts :  783
Posted : Mar 17, 2008 08:59
making electronic music has gotten very easy

i dont think the listeners give any attention at all to the work that goes into a track.

clearly, many people like music that copies other peoples music.

today you can ripoff another artist and call it a "genre"

today you can use sample cd's and presets and yes i consider most hardware synths like roland makes to be preset-machines


i suggest a read of Miller Puckettes "TheTheory&Technique-of-ElectronicMusic" while making your sine waves...

the reason people can use presets and sample cd's is that they are only trying to copy the sounds of other peoples music that has already been done. they want familiar

and you reward them with your approval.

you say "oh good it sounds like xyz"


i wont get into the topic of everyones favorite prodigy-boy-producer-genius and his extensive use of sample cd's, and presets on certain effects units and synths...
but it did the trick...

in any case- its not the difficulty of the music that REALLY interests me=-
its the ideas in the music.

i sure love to hear new ideas in music...

in short- i think its very difficult to think of new ideas for music and not just vomit up a rehash of someone elses ideas...

in any genre...
Soul Kontakt
Soul Kontakt

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  632
Posted : Mar 17, 2008 15:00
Yes people copy music and this is why it is not psychedelic because psychedelic is new interesting ideas weaved into art and music! It is psychedelic because it is new and because you will think how the fuck did he make that sound man?It is bigger than you ever thought it could be! Yes people use presets and sample cd's and this is the result no fricken psychedelic! All the bloody same, like a new genre comes out suddenly lots of producers produce this genre and it's finished already!

waveshapist
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  29
Posts :  68
Posted : Mar 18, 2008 10:02
I dunno mate, I am not using any presets.. I am also not caring about what so many of these producers care. so much greed. so funny, people produce music to make money, and now there is so little money, so many people trying to produce to make same amount of money.

CRAZY!!!!!!!!!!!

n e wayz, I am building all my sounds, kik, cymbals, synths.... all coming from scratch.

I think this will be wave of future. in future, for all good music, most people will be anti preset.           The speed past light..
vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect

Started Topics :  19
Posts :  1055
Posted : Mar 18, 2008 15:33
Quote:

On 2008-03-18 10:02, waveshapist wrote:
n e wayz, I am building all my sounds, kik, cymbals, synths.... all coming from scratch.



Wow making your own cymbals and synth from scratch not bad           Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/
waveshapist
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  29
Posts :  68
Posted : Mar 18, 2008 20:14
ah yes, would be exciting if I was very good at it too but I am not, but at least I try to do this way...

so it takes lots of practice. many years I think.           The speed past light..
Soul Kontakt
Soul Kontakt

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  632
Posted : Mar 18, 2008 21:09
Hey Waveshapist it's a good way to think man! We also have done everything by ourselves and now are getting pretty good at it, after almost 5 years so it takes time to develope something new but with time you will get there for sure just use your hearth to give you imagination so you can create what is in your hearth! Good luck bro
Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  56
Posts :  1221
Posted : Mar 18, 2008 22:18
If you are doing your music from scratch...usually Chill-out demands better music knowledge. It works more with "instruments" which in any case you have to know how to play if you want to compose something. There is no way you are going to compose a somehow complex melody in piano or guitar or flute if you dont, at least, know how to play the instrument....moreover, though talent/inspiration go a long way, when you are working with, lets say, 2 or more melody lines you need to know about music and its scales....

2cents....and a half!!!           
https://soundcloud.com/arglebarglemusic
http://soundcloud.com/turvytopsy
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