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Quality VS Music
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Sputer
IsraTrance Senior Member
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315
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2709
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 15:10
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what more importnat to u when u listening to music.
the quality or the music iTself ?
for example.
Infected mushroom got the max quality sound of trance today. but the music is gettin empty.
and Talpa. a new artist. the quality maybe cant compare to Infected, but the music is very good.
i want a dirty sound and not empty sounds that sound clear
  ..."Be yourself, let your conscience guide you...
Follow your heart, not the people around you"... |
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Isis
IsraTrance Junior Member
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11
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248
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 15:17
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depends on how good/bad the quality of the sound in question is as compared to how good/bad the creative energy of the track in question is 
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Stash
IsraTrance Full Member
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58
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1261
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 16:57
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ideally both wud be preferred
though if i had to make a choice i wud go for better music
driving baselines and very psychedelic
At the end there is a DOOR & waiting for you on the other side of that door is either HEAVEN or HELL |
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exotic
IsraTrance Full Member
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200
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5057
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 17:03
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creative sounds with good quality
like i love the melicia dynamic sounds .
missing plug-in |
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Mike A
Subra
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 17:04
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What's more important? Both.
You can't listen to old music today and say - "wow, this production is really good!". No matter how good the music is, the sound quality simply sucks compared to today's production standards.
On the other hand, no matter how good the music is produced - if it's hollow and empty then it's not good as well.
I'll take your example of Infected Mushroom. We all know that their old music rocked, and even sounded quite good for the time. But today if you listen to it, it usually sounds bad.
Even though it sounds bad - there is magic in it. So many sounds together - each time you hear something else you didn't hear before. Now that's true psychedelia. Take their new album. Everything sounds good. Loud, just in place, the mix is perfect. But that's it. The music is just horrible. Yes, it moves the dancefloor - but it doesn't make the dancefloor feel anything except "KiLLa BaSsLinE!11111".
I don't know if it's the fear of more than X number of sounds at once that will ruin the perfect mix, or just lack of creativity. One thing I can say - I don't like it.
Some people claim that you can't make old school music with modern sound. That these are 2 different things. I say - that's not right.
Take for example Passenger - Morning Pray, released lately. That's a good example of to do old school music (sounds like it's from mfg - project genesis / 1998) with modern sound. Both can co-exist peacefully. Also worth mentioning is Younger Brother album - that's psychedelic. Totally. And it was released 2 years ago, not 7.
So please, stop asking the artists to make "dirty sound, I want it like it was a few years ago". No can do, and no artist would be satisfied with his sound if he did. What you should ask is to make the music like old school and sound like modern production.
Talpa album is amazing - too bad the production could be a whole lot better. If you keep exactly the same music but better sound, it doesn't make it any worse. On the contrary - it stays the same music but you can enjoy it better since is simply sound good.
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EYB
Noized
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111
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2849
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 17:19
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Of course it changes the music.
With loosing noise it lose psychedelicness
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
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234
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3803
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 17:42
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Quote:
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On 2005-01-16 17:04, Mike A wrote:
What's more important? Both.
You can't listen to old music today and say - "wow, this production is really good!". No matter how good the music is, the sound quality simply sucks compared to today's production standards.
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I disagree 
And to throw in my 2 cents, I find the music itself way, way more important.
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 17:52
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Quote:
| You can't listen to old music today and say - "wow, this production is really good!" |
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Thats ridicoulous, sure I can.
Most old trance is not super produced, but some is.
Try some overlords or tribal ghost from around 1990. Nothing bothering me with the production of those.
Or for some of the greatest production in electronic music I ever heard, try Skinny Puppy - Dig It from 86.
Sure it has become easier and cheaper to make good production, so it's kind of new in the trance scene many times.
But I still hope that soon the producers get over that they have the possiblilty to make pefect sound and try to get sound that catches the attention and sounds inspired instead.
I'm not trying to say that muddy kickdrums was the basis of old-school sound.
Sure, use the best sounds you have and get a clear kick and bass.
But a lot of producers is using compressors on every track, EQ'ing out everything below 40hz on kick and bass, removing all the low end of their leads and sit and make a great effort of trying to make the sounds perfectly balanced in levels.
That results in the dead 80's style production that is even in mainstream music being recognised as harder to catch peoples attention with than something with a less polished edge.
I learned from a sucessful mainstream producer to basically not do proper mixes of the tracks.
His style was to just throw the fader roughly in position and then not touch it again.
There is no perfect position, because some sounds coming in too loud some times makes people pay attention and listen.
Spending much time polishing the track can many times make it sound less inspired in my experience anyway, and there seems to be a conflict for many producers I know.
It's simply not like you say for everyone Mike.
It would be great if I could first make an inspired track and then sit and try to polish it to get it more perfect sounding while still retaining the inspiration.
But most of the time the inspiration seems to go out of the track when it's polished, so I don't bother.
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H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
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352
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 17:54
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There is music and sound quality.
Music quality was great produced in the past when pioneers produced things never done before, now when everything is already used(at least seems so) music quality decreased. Second reason for music production quality decrease is software factor which is easy and "free", so everyone can make music nowadays. Sound quality increased due to more free sources of knowledge available, more professional equipment and competition settings in psy scene.
Music should have both, whereas producers will care more about sound quality and listeners for music quality.
For me it goes that way : 65% music quality and 35% sound quality. To make it clear i can't find many releases in my summed quality ambitions (aprx. 10CD per year when 1000 been released) |
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Mike A
Subra
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 18:05
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traveller & Spindrift - you got me wrong. I'm not saying that everything has to be polished & clean, because then it just sounds damn boring - take son kite or im for example.
You should aim for the best without losing any of the musical value - and that's a thin line over there.
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
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2849
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 18:23
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Quote:
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On 2005-01-16 17:54, H2O wrote:
There is music and sound quality.
Music quality was great produced in the past when pioneers produced things never done before, now when everything is already used(at least seems so) music quality decreased. Second reason for music production quality decrease is software factor which is easy and "free", so everyone can make music nowadays. Sound quality increased due to more free sources of knowledge available, more professional equipment and competition settings in psy scene.
Music should have both, whereas producers will care more about sound quality and listeners for music quality.
For me it goes that way : 65% music quality and 35% sound quality. To make it clear i can't find many releases in my summed quality ambitions (aprx. 10CD per year when 1000 been released)
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I disagree, coz everyone can make music nowadays there is much more music/sound quality full tracks then ever before.
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 18:40
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Mike, I guess it's a bit individual from producer to producer and what they tring to achive, but for me it many times does not only feel that it's a thin line but rather a contradiction.
Like I said, personally I try to have a solid kick and bass, because when you got that right you can focus on the more creative parts on the production.
And good sound in those fundamentals is helpful for the inspiration.
You have to fuck up quite badly with the rest of the sounds if the production sounds bad in the end if you had those right.
I have the feeling that many producers would have a lot to gain by learning how to be more relaxed with production and not listen to the lables when they tell them to go back and polish the tracks a bit more.
Sure there is some who could gain from focusing on production more as well, but usually with the risk of loosing out on feeling.
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Mike A
Subra
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185
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 19:09
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Quote:
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On 2005-01-16 18:40, Spindrift wrote:
I have the feeling that many producers would have a lot to gain by learning how to be more relaxed with production and not listen to the lables when they tell them to go back and polish the tracks a bit more.
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So how do you expect them to release anything at all?
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hip
Shuma
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12
Posts :
404
Posted : Jan 16, 2005 19:19
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Well, its interesting for me how more and more people are starting to listen to the production, and not the music.
I give more respect to the creative musician/artist then the good producer/sound technician because of one reason:
You CAN learn production in school, but you CANNOT learn creativity.
And original and innovative artist can learn production with time, while chances are that good producer won't get creative with time.
And of course, I like to hear a track with phatt massive sound, but if I have to choose, I'll always go for innovation.
For sure, best would be the combination of both, creativity and good sound quality.
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Jan 16, 2005 20:16
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Very true hip
[quote]So how do you expect them to release anything at all?[/quote}
Maybe they can look for labels that appreciate their content rather than production.
Maybe there is not so many around, but then I would rather not release the music or sell out completly and try to make proper pop music or house and do trance for fun.
Sure if you are a whore you have to accept to be screwed to make a living, and it's the same for musicians many times in a creative sense.
Some is prepared to let the labels tell them what they want from them in hope of a couple of hundred dollars per track, but I personally would not listen to a label manager telling me what he want me to do.
At least not unless we are talking some serious cash in advance for it.
My music is to precious for me, and I know what I'm trying to do, so if labels don't like it I won't bend over for them.
They can keep their small change, and I can keep my integrity and creativity.
(``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
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