Psychoactives & Trance Forum Proposal

On 2006-02-08 08:24, Krell wrote:

Quote:

On 2006-02-08 08:01, Demezriel wrote: A thing that strikes me is that on the front page of isratrance it is written : "Isratrance Israeli Psychedelic Experience" So would it really seem out of place in Isratrance to have a forum devoted to the psychedelic experience ?

Well doesnt it ?

How can you say that Isratrance as such isnt devoted to the psychedelic experience induced by psychedelic music ?

I think its a fucked up way to think, if you truely believe you have to do LSD or similar drugs in order to achieve and understand psychedelic experiences.

Plenty of other sites deal with psychedelic experiences induced by drugs though... why not respect that this is not what Isratrance is about, and then go there, where your topic is more than welcome.

Accept this site as is... The people behind it have made their drug policy very clear, I think you should respect that and leave it be.
Some things are always open for discussion, others are not - I think, the text about drugs below is very clear, and to me it certainly doesnt sound like something that is open for discussion.

"This site deals with music and has nothing to do with drugs!!!
Trance music is a form of art and has an independent existence unrelated to drugs and
drug use. This music, its makers, listeners and dancers should not be oppressed and
pushed out of legitimacy because of the failure of our social institutes in dealing withdrug problems. The only solution to drug problems is education!

If you're feeling the need to use drugs in order to enjoy music or any other activity of life- remember:
* Drugs can be very dangerous.
* Drugs can ruin your mind and life!!!
* Most drugs are illegal and you can end up in court and even in jail!

Educate yourself!!! Here are some suggestions:
DanceSafe - http://www.dancesafe.org
RaveSafe - http://www.ravesafe.org.za
What's Your Poison - http://www.abc.net.au/quantum/poison/default.htm
Take note that drug information is limited, not necessarily scientifically based
(including these sites), and unbiased research is rare- you're in a vague area,
and that should be taken into account when you're calculating your risks!"

So, when you go somewhere, and you are told before hand - "Hey, they dont want drug talk in their home - ok?" do you just think "fuck it, I will talk about it anyway, since I believe its so crucial - the least I can do is tell them that they are wrong". Or, do you just accept that this is the way it is, those are the rules to respect when your a guest somewhere?

Heres the logic spelled out, ala Shakespeare ;-)

1 - "Dude, theres no smoking here"
2 - "Hey, but smoking is an important part of the social experience, and this is a party!"
1 - "We dont want any smoking here, please put it out, it also says so on the flyer, the door and we just told you"
2 - "Oh ok, but, are you sure it wouldnt be better if I just go on with my smoke, like I said? You should really change that rule, like I said......"

Sorry, couldnt help myself

The annoying thing is, that perhaps some day a place like this might betray the ideals it is built upon just because they get tired of listening to people repeating the same idea over and over.

So yes, I think a drug forum might very well destroy isratrance, and also, play a big role in cementing the psychedelic trance culture even more with psychedelic drugs. (For which there is absolutely no need).

Krell

On 2006-02-08 08:40, Demezriel wrote:

At first you had valid points and I enjoyed your posts, but now you're just pushing your anti-drug views and assumptions.

On 2006-02-08 09:33, Demezriel wrote:
But thanks for trying to make me see your side of the matter !

On 2006-02-07 20:56, Krell wrote:

Quote:

On 2006-02-07 20:22, Aluxe wrote: Quote: Goa parties are places where trippers are supposed to feel welcome, isratrance should maybe reflect that. Yeah man, GOA is supposed to be the land of the free where social taboos are not enforced on anybody. If anything its a place to break these, a place to explore new realities without the restrictions put by mainstream society. In any case I don't think this great forum is that bad in regards to drug censorship. I mean you can talk about altered states of mind like in the shamanism topic, I guess all you need to do is put a cloud of mysticism around it and it will be ok. But to talk about raw sex, wide vagina and big penises... ohhh dang it. Thats is to much to handle, just cover it with a cloud of romance and call it a love. That should solve the problem. Maybe I should feel discriminated. You know much of these anti drug taboos have its origin in Catholic religious fundamentalism. And I am from Mexico and have some Aztec blood, and well our views are different: Pick it, Pack it, Fire it up, come along And take a hit. LOL (just kidding) And in Aztec mythology the patron saint god of psychedelics is Xochipilli. Well he is also the god of flowers, games, music and dance. According to the Aztecs music and arts and psychedelics were somehow connected it seems. Cosmic Unity maaan. And so we ask once again, what is it about drugs that scares people so deeply??? Anyways, respect to the isra trance team, they do a great job.

You can trip very well without drugs.

Best Wishes

Krell

On 2006-02-07 20:56, Krell wrote:

Quote:

On 2006-02-07 20:22, Aluxe wrote: Quote: Goa parties are places where trippers are supposed to feel welcome, isratrance should maybe reflect that. Yeah man, GOA is supposed to be the land of the free where social taboos are not enforced on anybody. If anything its a place to break these, a place to explore new realities without the restrictions put by mainstream society. In any case I don't think this great forum is that bad in regards to drug censorship. I mean you can talk about altered states of mind like in the shamanism topic, I guess all you need to do is put a cloud of mysticism around it and it will be ok. But to talk about raw sex, wide vagina and big penises... ohhh dang it. Thats is to much to handle, just cover it with a cloud of romance and call it a love. That should solve the problem. Maybe I should feel discriminated. You know much of these anti drug taboos have its origin in Catholic religious fundamentalism. And I am from Mexico and have some Aztec blood, and well our views are different: Pick it, Pack it, Fire it up, come along And take a hit. LOL (just kidding) And in Aztec mythology the patron saint god of psychedelics is Xochipilli. Well he is also the god of flowers, games, music and dance. According to the Aztecs music and arts and psychedelics were somehow connected it seems. Cosmic Unity maaan. And so we ask once again, what is it about drugs that scares people so deeply??? Anyways, respect to the isra trance team, they do a great job.

You can trip very well without drugs.

Best Wishes

Krell

On 2006-02-08 09:53, The Green Channel wrote:

Why the fuck should I TRIP (Explore), the mystery of being, without DEVINE Entheogenics?

On 2006-02-08 09:53, The Green Channel wrote:

Sure people like you and I Krell, can enter a state of trance without any plant medicines, yet, the intensity of a natural EXP., is a JOKE compared to a High dose Entheogen exp.

On 2006-02-08 09:53, The Green Channel wrote:

you can eat a kilo of psilocybin mushrooms without dying

On 2006-02-08 09:53, The Green Channel wrote:
I dislike walking around in Copenhagen after 23:00, Fridays and Saturdays, since, so many DRUNK people are running around like zombies without knowing what they are doing.

On 2006-02-08 09:53, The Green Channel wrote:
The world doesn’t become flat, just because a bunch of people believe it’s flat.

On 2006-02-08 10:24, Krell wrote:
I would actually rather die than do that ;-)

On 2006-02-08 09:53, The Green Channel wrote:
A Neurotransmitter like DMT, the active substance in a cocktail like Ayahuasca is absolutely HARMLESS. If you prepare your DEVINE “drink” properly, you will feel refreshed following a single session. No hangover, no neurological agitation, just a feeling of pure bliss. Compare this Exp. to a devoted Buddhist monk, who goes through immense physical stress, pressure and even severe pain in-order achieve a deep state of trance. While my method feels exhilarating and extraordinarily intense, nonetheless, no pain is required; only ecstasy, elation and wisdom are the consequences of my practices.

On 2006-02-08 22:44, Colin OOOD wrote:
Talking about psytrance without talking about drugs is like talking about the Beatles without mentioning John Lennon. Or drugs.

IMO

krell wrote:
So, when you know what you know, why still go on with a suggestion which has been basicly been disqualified by principle beforehand ?

Yes. But try to understand that as long as the forum is supposed to be about psychedelic trance and “the psychedelic experience” many people will always find it odd, confusing, or almost an oxymoron that drug talk is not welcome.

If its about music, well come on people, lets give credit to where credit is due! Does anybody actually want to deny what psychoactives can do to the musical experience?

Whether you can groove to the music with or without drugs is besides the point, the point is that entheogens can bring the musical experience to an absolutely divine level.

If we are talking psy trance then lets be honest about the influence that psychoactives have had in Goa and psychedelic trance, lets give credit to these substances for what they have done, I think its fair. For instance, how many people did not understand this music until they heard it under the influence of a psychedelic drug??

Whether many people did not need the drugs to get this music is beyond the point! Lets give credit to these substances for the fact that they have connected many people to this music at a very deep level which otherwise they would have missed. Yeah lets talk music shall we, take some LSD and listen to trance.. the music becomes alive as nothing you could have imagined. Why deny this fact?

BTW, I am not even suggesting the forum should change, like I said before I think the Israteam do a great job.

All I wanted is to say is I am suprised to see people annoyed about this issue continuosly coming up when the guidelines are clear about it. Well perhaps the word PSYCHEDELIC has something to do with the whole confusion.