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Problems with Com.Pact, please help
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Oct 12, 2003 16:23
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well the label does take care of all the expenses too, no? how much does it cost to print say 2000 cds? what does the studio time cost? what about promotion, adds sure aint free? i'm sure there are tons of other factors i'm not aware of..
  "The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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nobody4
Inactive User
Started Topics :
21
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358
Posted : Oct 12, 2003 22:58
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I CCL about anything anyone thinks, but I do take some things personaly, Noting the smug scent of self importance and aloofness in your post.
Actualy, the my last post was mostly written before I even saw your reply. I added the direct reference to you since I thought you should have more respect to fellow survivors on the sea of trance. but nevermind.
I do not, however, accept your sarcastic tone when refering to helping a young artist, and there are many here who will surely testify about that and the cincerity we gave it, without seeing any immediate gain (if any).
Again, many artists declare that they are in this business for the love of music, yet cannot understand the nature of the beast - if you want to have a full time job in this scene you are committing an economic suicide (that is why I myself never turned full professional, because I know I dont want to live like a bum, no offence). If you really expect to earn as much money as to cover the figures you gave - you are deluding yourself and the young ones. I disagree with you about these 'album cost' figures, since most artists have steady/part time jobs and do music in their free time - unlike label work which is a full time business and has overall expences like phone, internet, office needs (yes- paper, stickers, posters, staples - all cost money).
I suggest to evey starting artists to read Yaniv Tal's article in Mushroom Magazine (dont remember which one, I'll try to check for you) about the Industry - a bible.
chiao
auspexx@compact-records.com |
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planet_zohar
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
116
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 00:00
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and that lead to the question..
can anybody beside gms and artist like that can really make a normal living out of trance?
maybe thats the real problem. ppl forget that trance dont sell as much as other styles
and u can be well known in the trance scene and still earn 2 nis in a month..
thats why i also think its best keep this trance music making as part time thing for fun and make a living from smt else.
or just born very rich.
let's take a walk on the proogy side |
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traveller
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
234
Posts :
3803
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 00:05
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one relatively known english trance artist drives Audi TT Coupe..
anyways..
if all the trance artists out there are such talented musicians/composers..
well why don't they have side projects? why don't they create house music? it sells a lot more, no? why don't they compose music for commercials/series/movies? is't maybe cause they aren't that talented after all?
"The dinosaurs became extinct because they didn't have a space program."
- Larry Niven |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
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Posts :
1177
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 00:15
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Living of the music or not is not really the issue here!
It's very easy..... The label DO make more money than the artist. Way more money! It's a fact that the artist rarely get over 20% in Royalty ( Normally it's around 12-14%.) of the sale after all label expenses Including Royalty advance are deducted.
The label expenses include:
CD manufacturing, packaging, shipping, PR and Promotion.
This leave the label with around 80% of the income after all expenses are deducted.
And Helen yes many of us need a daytime job now. But believe me it's not by choice! |
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 00:54
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Tal, I was and never ever will be 1% sarcastic towards the young artists.. But toward the labels.. Well  If things will change in the future my way of speech might change, but for now, I stand behind every thing I have said.
About misleading the young artists.. Well in this case me dear, the numbers I gave about the production costs are true as a sunrise. Danni Makov, the drummer I work with was running a very big label in Israel ( Sunshine Records - Evyatar Banai, Rokfor and such released there ) till not long ago, mostly for rock music.. and the numbers I gave were calculated by both of us so pls.. About the expenses of artists, true some of them do music part time, and that is why the scene is so unpro and is not groundbreaking, since to make GOOD QUALITY MUSIC u have to leave everything ( And I dont live life of a bum, sorry Tal.. ) Most of the acts in Israel that I know fight to survive and do their music as main income ( want names? )
The only thing u were right about, is that young artists usually wont have the CONNECTIONS to promote their music and to make sure they are paid by the distribution in the end if they come to release the album by themselves. And that is the magic word CONNECTIONS.
I am truly sorry Tal, that u try to sell this hypocrite thing with the mama label will take care of u and we pay for all the papers, posters stamples and stuff.. I just so much don't buy that.. And fully agree with Kristian here ----> the way the shares go today ( around 80 /20 for the label ) HOW DARE YOU to cry about fucking paperwork cost?
Anyway I am tired from this discussion and only came in here to show the point to artists that want so much to release.. Don't hurry too much. Go for right ppl - there are still right ppl, for that u have to choose carefully.. Take care of sweet talking ppl since those are very dangerous and try always to ask someone that been there and dun that.
I am dun
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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Chaka Laka
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
471
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 01:16
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hi ppl , i want to add my 2 cents
when u invent smth , lets say a new engine , and after u issue a patent for it , u r lookin for sponsors to start the development. and none of the investors will give u more then 20% of the profit , eventhough the idea is revolutional , patent for next 20 years is issued and profits seem to be 100 times more then the investments . 20% is a very good offer actually , it's in case there is smth veeeeery catchy (nobody speaks about time spent on this project by an author , how many nerves patent's agency screwed out of him etc) . and oi vaavoi if u don't have some professional lower near u each time u sign smth.i really don't think it's fair towards an inventor but that's the ratio and that's how business works !
imho , we can draw a clear parallels to artists-labels situation.
conclusion: one that invests the money - orders the music . if u want the whole package - take a risk and do everything by yourself , that's the difference between a hired worker and an independent worker .
p.s. obviously it doesn't mean that labels may do what comes to their mind . signed contracts should avoid them of doing so.
Dance is my Trance |
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serotonot
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
114
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 10:39
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I've been reading this topic for a while and I must say that there has been good points from both sides. The thing is that some artists here seem to find it very hard to understand how much costs there is when you're running a label. You have to pay for the rent of office, the phone bills, internet etc. just like helen said. No matter what the artists think, those bills have still to be paid, or the label will bankrupt and no one will get their payments.
I also understand that the artists are sad about the fact that they get only 20% share of the royalties, but its the same thing with the parties.
Why don't you also start complaining about the fact that if there is a party for 2000ppl and the ticket costs 10USD then there is 20000USD profit. Why don't you say that all that should be given to artists? Because you know that there is the rent of PA, lights, venue etc. Why can't you see the same thing with labels. There are so many things to pay for the label that you wouldn't even think of.
Please people. Stop mocking each other and try to live in peace. That's what this is all about after all. The peace, The unity. I don't comment about who has or hasn't got their payments, but as we all know, there is some serious financial issues in trance scene right know because people are just downloading music instead of buying.
So people. Next time you download that "real cool tune I gotta have" think about this issue. Think about the artists complaining about their payments. Think about the labels having a hard time to pay all the fees and bills. I'm not moralizing anybody here. Just trying to give a little perspective here. The whole scene is in major trouble financially and that's a really bad thing.
anyways.. Peace and Love to ya all. Hope you find a solution but IMO these kind of things should be settled via pm or email rather than public forum. There is a difference of giving truths and telling rumours. I don't know about this case and in fact I dont even want to. this is a private issue between the artist and the label and won't do any good to have a war about it in the net under aliases..
PS. And to MR.Herbal Essence. I'm announcing to you that I will never play any of yer tracks in my dj-sets after you brought up the aspect of violence. That is NEVER a solution. If you feel like you encountered wrongness get it straight through courthouse or something. NO VIOLENCE!!!
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 10:48
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It's quite easy... If the label can't pay the bills then don't start a label ! There's a big difference between an artist and the label. The artists is the creative part and the label is the business side. We all know that if a business can't pay the bills it must close down... Why should it be different for a label?
And where did we express that we are "sad" that we get 20%? We complain because many labels in this scene are pure amatures and don't do a good job promoting and selling our music... And on top of that we have some labels that fuck the artists too... That's what this topic is about... not about our 20%.
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serotonot
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
114
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 11:13
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Ok. So the artists should also then be such a pros that they can be sure that their contracts cover everything? I'm not taking sides here, but I cant understand why especially you are so mad about this thing? Some personal things maybe that you should take care with email or pm?
I'm just saying that I understand delayed payments, if it's a matter of saving label from a bankrupt. We've lost already so many great labels that I just dont wanna see that happening anymore.
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serotonot
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
114
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 11:15
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Quote:
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On 2003-10-13 10:48, Elysium Project wrote:
It's quite easy... If the label can't pay the bills then don't start a label !
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It's also quite easy... If you dont make hits that make you big bucks, such as Prodigy or Chemical Brothers, dont start making electronic music !
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Yuli
Retired
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
1660
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 12:07
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serotonot
I actually think that 20% to 80% is quite fair.. If u have better negotiating skills u can get it higher, but basically it is very much ok, since the label really bears a lot of expences on it's back and usually pays much more tax than the average artist.
The dispute wasn't in that direction at all...
Actually, I believe that if the label has financial problems, it is not THAT BAD if the payments are delayed So where is the probem u ask me?
The problem is at 2 major points:
1. If there is always a delay in payments then the label should check itself and if needed to close the business to fix things up and be on schedule.
2. AND THIS IS THE MAJOR ONE.. If you have problems, as a label owner, it is YOUR duty to inform the parties that wait for their long deserved money that there is a problem and fix a later date for solution. This is pure unpro behaviour and in the same breath I can mention CD's that are released without enough promo, or released in bad timing and so on.
seroronot - mind u, we are not blind, and the scene goes thru very rough times, but add to it some labels that implement experimetation period upon artists backs, and this becomes completely absurd
And last point.. Some 8 to 10 years ago, there was maybe 2 times less crowd for trance, but there was only 5 - 10 labels issuing trance music, from which some 5 were big and the rest did a release or two a year. Today there are same number of labels as the number of artists and I find it a little .. This is one of the reasons that the scene acts amateurly and it is OK to raise questions or try to shake the tree since the tree is rotting and we want to stop that and start growing back
A man with a "master plan" is often a woman |
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Shroomy
Homegrown Lifeform
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
472
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 13:00
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Quote:
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On 2003-10-13 00:05, traveller wrote:
one relatively known english trance artist drives Audi TT Coupe..
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That doesn't mean he didn't loan the money  But I do believe that the artist mentioned makes more off his music than most artists... So perhaps?
Sorry for being offtopic, btw...
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ConTact
Started Topics :
1
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54
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 18:40
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Quote:
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On 2003-10-13 10:39, serotonot wrote:
...The thing is that some artists here seem to find it very hard to understand how much costs there is when you're running a label. You have to pay for the rent of office, the phone bills, internet etc...
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can u help me please here dear brother??
where is it written that if u have a label of your own
u need to live in a big fucken 3 floor house
and u have to have a pool in your backyard
and u have to have a : secretary/asistant/booking manger/etc.
y cant u live in a normal 3-4 (maybe 5) rooms apartment and do it all by yourself ?
think about it : y do u even have to have an office? isnt your house is enough?
most buisnes ull ever make will b thru the internet - thru phone - thru mail
or buisnes asociates can drop over your place for a cup of coffee! ever thought about that man?
y do u have to pay sallerys to everyone who sais he wants to work for u in your label and y do u have to live like a king
and then cry that u have very big expenses
ever been to Hom-Mega's offices man?
let me tell u a secret....
Eyal doesnt have one, he does his work alone at home!!!
whats so wrong about that?
he seem to do a prety good job in this way
and about what u guys said about yound artists that wants to live out of music....
wake the fuck up people!!!!
Trance scene is the lowest of the low
its the smallest scene alive and the most non-profitable
try open up your minds for some other styles of music perhaps even non-electronical
maybe ull understand y is trance is the smallest scene
common people did u know that in the pop scene - if your cd isnt gonna sell atllest 70-80 thousend copeys no one is even gonna look at your direction - check out how pop artists live and ull understand
they can aford big fucken houses and pools
and the labels ohhhhh u dont want to even know how much money they make
but people common u cant choose trance (the easyest music around to make) and expect to live from it
think for a minute if that was possible then trance scene would b the biggest of all secnes
dont u think?
but anyways
we r off the subject here!!!
im looking farward to see what happnes in the: "Herbel Vs. Com.pact" Case!!
Have a G'Day Mates!!!!
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
1177
Posted : Oct 13, 2003 18:49
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No one said that they expect to live from the music ConTact. Please stop twisting people's words. What people said is that they expect to get the money that the record labels owe to them.... That's what this post is about in the first place....
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