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P.L.U.R.? P.L.U.R my a** - Brazilian style.
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sherlockalien
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
629
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 03:05
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eyb haha you´re pretty funny dude... you have quite a lot of the ´trickster´ archetype in you, just going against ppl´s expectations, ´normal´ opinions and all 
oh a question I make to templar: did you try contacting them before reacting about it?
and as someone said: from what some of you say, its as if Brazillians were to blame.. no, its certain individuals... There are respectable people non-respectable people (however you use this concept) in every nationality..
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On 2005-06-13 01:19, full_on wrote:
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On 2005-06-11 23:19, full_on wrote:
Why? Because it's easy to say PLUR. It's even easier to say PLUR on internet. And it's very, very easy to say you love psytrance anb PLUR and all kind of bullshit while you're downloading some unreleased KILLArg through some lame p2p way.
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On 2005-06-11 23:30, EYB wrote:
BTW fullon whats lame with p2p? Generally it is a great system.
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I can tell you a thousand reasons why I call p2p LAME. But since I think my reasons won't change your mind, I'll just say that IMO PEOPLE who "download some unreleased KILLArg through some lame p2p way" are LAME because they're proud of having "all this stuff", when in fact they all they have is SHIT, since I don't respect mp3 DJs as DJs, and I don't respect people who call themselves PLUR when instead of supporting the scene they are helping killing it and making it more commercial (yes, I think mp3 KILLargs makes psytrance more commercial).
Respect!
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not all people that use p2p fit into your generalization, into that stereotype.. not only that but p2p doesnt CREATE people to do something, p2p is just a tool.. it can be used in different ways
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 03:49
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This topic MUST be pinned on top until everyone realises whats going on in the psy trance community today.
People download and share things illegally (either these things are mp3's or programs or whatever) simply because its free and because it doesnt affect their pocket or egoism or anything at all.
ONLY when a situation like this affects them personally they realise whats going on,only when someone else steals their time,money and effort they realise that something is wrong in this world.
EYB's case should serve as an example for all of us out there.EYB supported the idea of free sharing and even supported the idea of the guys that actually stole the name of some others people festival and used it as their own,it seemed fine to him mainly because he was unaffected from the whole situation and expressing even the most silly comments in public on this forum would never hurt him anyway,he said that taking someone elses name and using it as your own is ok and that there shouldnt be any egoism involved and that people should be happy that other people like their ideas and use them also and stuff like that.
BUT when someone stole EYB's work and published it on the internet as his own then EYB was directly affected by this situation and suddenly realised that 'Hey thats not cool at all,i worked hard for this program but someone stole it from me and published it as his own without mentioning me anywhere'.THEN AND ONLY THEN dear EYB felt like the Polish guys felt when they saw some guys in Brasil stealing their festival's name,logo and flyer,THEN AND ONLY THEN dear EYB felt like me when seeing my label releases on the internet for free download the same day that someone could purchase the cd on the shops,THEN AND ONLY THEN dear EYB felt like those artists that watch their music being traded illegally on the internet before being released.
TREAT OTHERS LIKE YOU WOULD LIKE THEM TO TREAT YOU.
DONT DO TO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULDNT LIKE THEM TO DO TO YOU.
This topic should be pinned on top and every mp3 discussion from now and on should be deleted immediately as useless.
Dear EYB i hope that now you understand why all this time i had that bad picture of you in mind.I guess that now you know exactly how i feel 
 Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Ott^
OTT
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
488
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 06:07
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On 2005-06-13 03:49, DETOX wrote:
ONLY when a situation like this affects them personally they realise whats going on, only when someone else steals their time, money and effort they realise that something is wrong in this world.
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Amen.
This is probably the best thread I have ever read on Isratrance - no - on ANY forum ANYWHERE.
The perfect example of how it is ok to steal stuff - as long as you're not stealing it from "ME".
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| EYB's case should serve as an example for all of us out there.EYB supported the idea of free sharing and even supported the idea of the guys that actually stole the name of some others people festival and used it as their own,it seemed fine to him mainly because he was unaffected from the whole situation and expressing even the most silly comments in public on this forum would never hurt him anyway,he said that taking someone elses name and using it as your own is ok and that there shouldnt be any egoism involved and that people should be happy that other people like their ideas and use them also and stuff like that.
BUT when someone stole EYB's work and published it on the internet as his own then EYB was directly affected by this situation and suddenly realised that 'Hey thats not cool at all,i worked hard for this program but someone stole it from me and published it as his own without mentioning me anywhere'.THEN AND ONLY THEN dear EYB felt like the Polish guys felt when they saw some guys in Brasil stealing their festival's name,logo and flyer,THEN AND ONLY THEN dear EYB felt like me when seeing my label releases on the internet for free download the same day that someone could purchase the cd on the shops,THEN AND ONLY THEN dear EYB felt like those artists that watch their music being traded illegally on the internet before being released. |
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...and I wouldn't have missed it for the world.
I'm just waiting for Spindrift to turn up and tell us that the Brasilian guys did nothing wrong - just that the original Polish Moondalla people got their business model wrong... |
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Mauser
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
1
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 14:55
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On 2005-06-12 14:19, EYB wrote:
Why people like this festival? -Coz of its name? I don't think so. It is just a party like much other, but u and the organizing make it special and u still will do if it has a different name or if ther is a festival with the same name thousants of kilometers away.
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Why do people like coca-cola? Coz of it's name?? LOL man - just think...
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
279
Posts :
5475
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 17:39
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On 2005-06-13 03:05, sherlockalien wrote:
not all people that use p2p fit into your generalization, into that stereotype.. not only that but p2p doesnt CREATE people to do something, p2p is just a tool.. it can be used in different ways
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I agree this is a great topic, Colin OOOD's and DETOX's post are very clever.
sherlockalien, everything can be used in different ways, even atomic bombs...
The problem is that the way they're actually used.
As this topic shows, people use and defend things and ideas without knowing the consequences, mostly because they don't feel the consequences in their own skin.
Maybe you're right and not all people that use p2p fits in my "generalization". But I think MOST people fit, enough people to allow me to make such generalization.
Respect!
.
...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
.
...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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Tila
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
77
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 17:43
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So, i´m brazilian and i was in this party.
We (public) dont have idea there´s another festival/party with the same name and design. The promoters didnt use this to say: a brazilian version to a internacional festival. Anyway... if you are really angry with this you can email them: lucas@doapavoro.com.br
But i think its very wrong you say: brazilian style.
We arent this way...
RESPECT |
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Templar^
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
105
Posts :
382
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 18:10
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Whoa, a real live debate hear, I thought that the topic would have like 3-5 replies and then join the void...
Anyhow, I didn't mean to offend Brazilian people, so I apologise for the very misfortunate title of this topic. I realise that it sounds like "(all) Brazilian are thieves", but what I meant were of course the Brazilian organizers of the "fake" Moondalla. Maybe some moderator could cut the title a little bit?
Back on the topic: the site with the stolen concepts of Toga Dansverg seems to be off-line, I wonder how's the festival.
Thank You all for the feedback on this issue, after all it was all about "borrowing" (i.e. STEALING) without any permission and cashing in on it.
www.ektoplazm.com/2011/panta-deus - download for free Psytrance.pl's 10th anniversary compilation featuring 100% Polish psy-music (goa, prog, dark, full-on, chillout): Artha, Sundial Aeon and many more
www.psytrance.pl - Polish psytrance website |
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LeZuXxX
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
89
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 21:03
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PLUR today´s meaning is....
P= Profit
L= Life
U= Using
R= Raves
But not only here in Br! Boom´s festival money, Raves in Europe costing about 30 euros, Paradiso damend nite club in GOA n all the police mafia around there, many, many, many ISRAELI cheesy trance producers, anywayzzz TRANCE HAS BECOME POP EVERYWHERE!!!
at least the music is getting better n better, but i ask u...where to go??? |
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sherlockalien
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
629
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 21:19
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full_on, generalizations are always generalizations.. they are not reality.. as long as you know that you are not saying The Truth, and that a minority or exception is not less important than the majority, I give a rats ass about what you generalize.. (and thats not supposed to be an insult, btw)
templar, you still didnt answer my question.. did you try contacting them before posting this here? or ever?
detox, I think its the first time I agree with you: ´don´t do to others as you wouldnt like it to be done to yourself´
though from that I take different conclusions than you, but at least we finally agreed on smt haha |
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Templar^
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
105
Posts :
382
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 21:27
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Sherlockalien: Yup, I've mailed them, no reply. Than again, if You were in their shoes, would You reply? www.ektoplazm.com/2011/panta-deus - download for free Psytrance.pl's 10th anniversary compilation featuring 100% Polish psy-music (goa, prog, dark, full-on, chillout): Artha, Sundial Aeon and many more
www.psytrance.pl - Polish psytrance website |
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full_on
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
279
Posts :
5475
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 21:58
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sherlockalien, you can't live without generalization. And it's not bad, as long as you keep in mind that it's a generalization.
As we say in the academic science world:
All models (or generalizations) are wrong, but some are very useful...
Respect!
.
...Be gentle with the earth...
...Dance like nobody's watching...
.
...I don't mind not going to Heaven, as long as they've got Coffee in Hell... |
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sherlockalien
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
22
Posts :
629
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 22:26
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templar: if I were them, I would do the same as they did, because I would have their mind.. but if I had my mind in their shoes, then I wouldnt be them, so it would be totally different from the beginning anyway heheh..
but yeah, too bad they didnt answered... not a very nice situation for you guys indeed..
full on: yeah I know, that was what I was saying.. generalizations are ok, as long as you know they are not The Reality... A model is a model, not Reality.. The Menu is not the Meal, the Map is not the Territory.. we should use them, but not be stuck in them..
but my point was that generalizations may (and normally do) have exceptions... there are minorities that do not fit into that simplified equation.. and these minorities are not less valid or less important than the majorities...
so, as a very extreme example (just to show more or less what I mean, but not to imply that this is what happens.. but in extremes we can visualize better): Lets say you define: All p2p users are kids stealing from artists... We should ban p2ps
and then, this one guy, very very very rich guy (bill gates or smt haha) finds out about trance and all.. and he doesnt want to hear small samples in the computer, he needs to record cds to hear in his room´s stereo, because his computer speakers sucks (haha).. so lets say, because of p2ps, he gets to know the trance, and since he´s very rich and loves what he hears, he decides to buy all the trance cds in the world.. actually he decides to buy 50 copies of each cd, because he´s so rich and he wants to give away later on, and also make a huge 2 months party with all the artists in the world and each of them gaining lots of money for the gig..
so lets say you, full_on, in a parallel universe, you convinced the interpol to focus on p2ps, and they finish all p2ps and mp3s in the world (haha yeah right).. so then the rich guy, who would pay a huge money for the scene, because of no p2p, does not give the money anymore...
so yeah, he was an exception, because most ppl there were teenies stealing music for their egos to say they have the latest killas.. but how can you say the exception is less important? in this stupid example, the exception, the minority was actually very important..
you know what I mean?
and this is not to say, of course, that there isnt teenies downloading music just for their ego, spending loads of money on drugs and none on music.. yeah that happens..
but is that all that happens? Are these ppl the only types there are amongst downloaders? does mp3 CREATE people like that? if p2ps stopped, would they start buying? do they keep being stealing teenies all their life? are the advantages from, for ex, the promotion gained from mp3s much less than the disadvantage from cds that are not bought? Can all ppl hear the difference between mp3s and wavs? Is the ´moral´ aspect of downloading different depending on the country/income ? Is the ´Inflated Ego´ aspect only with downloaders, or maybe also with buyers who want to show off they buy and what size is their collection, and with artists and party organizers too?
etc etc etc etc etc
so there are many more things to ask, the question is not so simple as : mp3s, good or bad?
things are much more contextual, much more dependent on many factors, many hidden variables involved, many different sorts of advantages and disadvantages, etc... |
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 23:35
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On 2005-06-13 14:55, Mauser wrote:
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On 2005-06-12 14:19, EYB wrote:
Why people like this festival? -Coz of its name? I don't think so. It is just a party like much other, but u and the organizing make it special and u still will do if it has a different name or if ther is a festival with the same name thousants of kilometers away.
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Why do people like coca-cola? Coz of it's name?? LOL man - just think...
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Ok i don't know exactly why people love coke. Maybe its their all arounding advertisment, or because coffein, or the taste.
And i guess that people love this polish festival coz of the good vibes, good music, good location, a allround good feeling and situation. Maybe a little bit of love coz of the name and the flyers/website/stuff.
Peace
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EYB
Noized
Started Topics :
111
Posts :
2849
Posted : Jun 13, 2005 23:44
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On 2005-06-13 03:49, DETOX wrote:
EYB's case should serve as an example for all of us out there.EYB supported the idea of free sharing and even supported the idea of the guys that actually stole the name of some others people festival and used it as their own,it seemed fine to him mainly because he was unaffected from the whole situation and expressing even the most silly comments in public on this forum would never hurt him anyway,he said that taking someone elses name and using it as your own is ok and that there shouldnt be any egoism involved and that people should be happy that other people like their ideas and use them also and stuff like that.
BUT when someone stole EYB's work and published it on the internet as his own then EYB was directly affected by this situation and suddenly realised that 'Hey thats not cool at all,i worked hard for this program but someone stole it from me and published it as his own without mentioning me anywhere'.THEN AND ONLY THEN dear EYB felt like the Polish guys felt when they saw some guys in Brasil stealing their festival's name,logo and flyer,THEN AND ONLY THEN dear EYB felt like me when seeing my label releases on the internet for free download the same day that someone could purchase the cd on the shops,THEN AND ONLY THEN dear EYB felt like those artists that watch their music being traded illegally on the internet before being released.
TREAT OTHERS LIKE YOU WOULD LIKE THEM TO TREAT YOU.
DONT DO TO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULDNT LIKE THEM TO DO TO YOU.
This topic should be pinned on top and every mp3 discussion from now and on should be deleted immediately as useless.
Dear EYB i hope that now you understand why all this time i had that bad picture of you in mind.I guess that now you know exactly how i feel
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I am still supporting the idea of SHARING
but, right, not STEALING
U see, FM Spira is freeware, and it will always be freeware.
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DONT DO TO OTHERS WHAT YOU WOULDNT LIKE THEM TO DO TO YOU.
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Yes i love this sentence, and always respect it, at least try it as good as i can.
Peace DETOX
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Jun 14, 2005 01:54
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Dear EYB if you create something and decide to give it for free to the people then SHARING is very good in this case.
If i release a cd and i expect to get some money out of it,then if you just download it or even buy it and decide to copy it to your friends then in this case SHARING stands for STEALING.
I think we both understand the situation here
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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