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nyc trance and drugs

Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  42
Posts :  787
Posted : Nov 23, 2004 19:54
Oh and By the way looking back to the beginning of this thread I think its really in poor taste that this serious issue is being used to badmouth the promoters and organizers. This should not be about accusations or blame, but self improvement and constructive self criticism of ourselves, as opposed to destructive insinuations about others.
goadevotee


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  197
Posted : Nov 23, 2004 22:16
its nice to see this thread moving in more of a positive direction.

bom,
devotee
goadevotee


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  197
Posted : Nov 23, 2004 22:18
btw
maybe this thread should be trance and drugs, because it is an issue every where.
Nik©
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  37
Posts :  455
Posted : Nov 24, 2004 01:42
OK since we talking about drugs in this city , i want to hear names and phone numbers , otherwise there is nothing to talk about !!!!
fuzzikitten
Annunaki

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  603
Posted : Nov 24, 2004 18:17
Quote:

On 2004-11-23 19:51, Psycosmo wrote:

I fear that if we call it a spiritual movement and shed the party disguise that it will cease to be spiritual. part of the beuty of our scene is that the spirit is so intensly present that its presence need not be directly stated. If it were, I fear that would kill it, make it staid and unflexible and ritualistic like church. On the other hand, it might take it to the next level. It is something we should continue to discuss.



I also share this apprehension about talking about the obvious. The focused, rational mind is a wonderful tool - but it is ultimately a tool of division, seeking to understand something by breaking it down in to small, lifeless pieces. There is something to be said for experiences which we simply experience - without critically analyzing with the mind. If we're busy thinking about the moment then we aren't actually *in* it.

I have tried to analyze the psychedelic experience, as I have tried to analyze parties surrounding this experience, and suffice it to say I do not understand it on a rational level. Every time I think I rationally understand the psychedelic experience, it changes - it is different every single time, and my rational mind cannot label an ever-changing/shifting experience.

Yet the intuitive understanding is there, the part of me that is getting busy dancing while my rational mind worries about the what it all means, some part of Mind does understand it though I could never put it to words.

(I have no idea where this is going, I'm just going with a train of thought so I apologize for it's incoherency)

I have no way to accurately describe what a psychedelic experience is for me, whether it be a really good meditation session or mushrooms. I have no way of knowing if other people are seeing/experiencing things that are even *slightly* like what I experience. And yet, just as James says, when I go to a goa party it's like coming home. And I know, on some weird level, that in that crazy psychedelic experience, I am not alone.

It's funny... thrown in the middle of some field with near-unhuman sights and sounds, stomping the ground amidst folks who are barely even aware of my presence...

this is when I feel most human.



-Alex

ps - I second the notion to expand this to a more general thread. granted, that might mean more rambling posts by some of us...
Liquid-Vision


Started Topics :  3
Posts :  660
Posted : Nov 24, 2004 18:27
The psychedelic experience has always been something for me which connects humans back to their roots, back a few thousand years ago, when we'd all get together, dosed on an energy laced psylocybin/DMT drink, and dance around the campfire to the repetetive beats of a shaman's drums. Thats not what the psychedelic experience ALWAYS is, but a lot of the time thats exactly what I feel like doing, and i feel like this is one of the humanliest things it is possible to do, like having sex. Drugs are part of a humans way of life, their is nothing unnatural of having the desire to do drugs at the end of the week to help forget about the bullshit that surrounds us. Where am I going with this? I have no fucking clue           We are all visitors to this time, this place. We are just passing through. Our purpose here is to observe, to learn, to grow, to love... and then we return home.
Woggle


Started Topics :  4
Posts :  88
Posted : Nov 24, 2004 19:53
I do not understand why u feel it is a situation of now...

i've been going to parties in nyc for quite a while now, about 7 years now or possibly 8? And i feel drugs were ALWAYS a part of the scene. Especially psychedelics.

I think the drug use was much worse back then than it is now.

I also think the reason why the PSY scene in general is hurting is because of the lack of acid, and too much cocaine use, amphetimine use, all that shit, that stuff leads to very bad vibes, it's not good stuff.

Also face the facts, a psy party is a party, it's a place for people to have an experience, with some good music.

If I personally want to hear good music, i'll sit at home and listen to amazing tracks i have. That i'll never get to hear at a nyc party, unless somone will play some huopotossu monotonen one day here... but doubtful hehe:-D

There also exists some elitism. of "i don't want to see this" Fuck it, it's NOT your body, it's somoen elses, it's somone elses mind. Has nothing to do with you. So why don't u leave them be.

This is one of the most prime principals i realy get out of psy, of people being diffrent, to accept them for who they are, and not to subject them to my own views. And it seems people are subjecting others to their own views.

It's true the nyc scene sucks nowadays. BUT i don't think it's because of the drugs. I think there's more to it than that

i often find a bunch of assholes at parties now. while previously i could start up a conversation with anyone(at least anyone who wouldn't look down at me cuz i am american, lol, funny when that happens when you're in america...lol), and they'd be friendly, but nowadays, i go to talk to, and nothign but bad vibes...

I think one thing that's also great about the psy scene was the NON subjecting of people who did drugs. people bithcing about drugs, and saying i'ts all about the music destroyed the whole rave scene. It really made people jaded, and think they were better than other people, and that's something that's a lot worse than any drug.

and btw, the rave scene in new york was started on LSD for the most part. Liquid sky, How do u think that got started, they startted out selling acid. What about blackhat and the free party movement, they were able to throw the parties because of acid.

I don't do drugs at parties anymore tho because i find the effects of NOT doing them, and entering a trance of my own, is more effective to my personal self. But others might feel differently.

remember tho friends, alcahol IS a drug. just a socially acceptable one.

I'll stop now.

But just please don't think this is a modern occurence, you might just of recognized it lately moreso. but this has gone on for such a long time. And it's not somethign that's just in america.

btw the hippy jam band scene's been having drugs as a heavy influence, for what 36 or 37 years? and it's still going strong! Just keep it psychedelic and avoid the drugs that make an asshole out of everyone who touches them!( cocaine, meth, heroin...)
Woggle


Started Topics :  4
Posts :  88
Posted : Nov 24, 2004 19:56
i think another point to make, don't blame the shittiness of the psy scene in nyc(or perhaps the psy scene as whole) so quickly on drugs. It's easy to scapegoat tho...
The Tree Tribe
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  36
Posts :  580
Posted : Nov 25, 2004 03:41
"Drugs" is just an EVIL sounding word coined by society for substances that alter conciousness. Certain chemicals, like cocaine, (in my opinion) are correctly classified as illegal drugs, however, marijuana and LSD should not be illegal "drugs". LSD should be a psychotherpeutic tool, and marijuana should be as legal as cigarettes (maybe I'd stop smoking cigarettes then)!

Boom!!
jyoty


Started Topics :  4
Posts :  108
Posted : Nov 25, 2004 22:20
i'm with u all the way geshtunk !
Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  42
Posts :  787
Posted : Nov 27, 2004 07:47
I think it is way too simplistic to frame this debate in terms of drugs being "good" or "bad". For me, the issue is not so much the good/bad duality as the productive/undproductive duality. I second Gesthtink's comment that LSD should be used as a psychotheraputic tool, and I think that psytrance and even LSD + psytrance could be useful for healing (In fact I know it from personal experience! )
Still, I think this is a very important discussion to be be having. While I think that everyone should be free to use substances as they wish, and we should not get elitist about people who make different choices, as Woggle asserted, I do not think just because I tolerate something means I have to agree with it. When I see people using psychedelics in what I think is a less-than-thoughtful way, that makes me sad. I dont reject those people, but I do wish I could convince them that there are more positive ways of using substances. So there is nothing wrong with taking a stand, whether it be for drugs, against drugs (as surrender seems to be) or for drugs in some instances and against them in others (which is where I stand on the issue). Disagreement with drug use and drug use both need to be tolerated and undestood as valid ways of living. I the real question is "Since we have diverse perspectives on this issue, but need to coexist for the scene to survive, how are we going to go about agreeing to disagree?"

Peace,
james
Surrender
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : Nov 27, 2004 09:18
Quote:

On 2004-11-27 07:47, Psycosmo wrote:
...So there is nothing wrong with taking a stand,... against drugs (as surrender seems to be)...



how can u say that? have u read any of my posts here?
          "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon
Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  42
Posts :  787
Posted : Nov 27, 2004 15:18
I said that because of your first post in this thread. Although you did not say that you thought drugs were completely bad in all cases, your post seemed to me to be taking a stand against the amount of drug use you beleive is going on. If I misunderstood your post, sorry. Perhaps you could clarify for me?
Surrender
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : Nov 27, 2004 19:18
i am the one who wrote the topic yes... and presented the situation, but in fact i give an opinion similar to yours. there are not good/bad or black/white situation in almost anything in life, this is not an exception. if im reading your words correctly then i would say that my personal opinion on the matter is somehwhere where you stand.
          "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon
Psycosmo
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  42
Posts :  787
Posted : Nov 28, 2004 19:50
It was not my intention to put words in your mouth as it seems I have done. My apologies. Glad to see you agree with me to !
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