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nyc trance and drugs

Eklypz


Started Topics :  7
Posts :  359
Posted : Oct 12, 2004 07:57
I understand what you are saying. But I guess I am an idealist in that I think that maybe 10% of those people that go beyond their limits (and prolly not the person to think about limits, since I define limits as goals to attain will be able to obtain something beautiful and stay with them when not sober and move into the "flow" much easier.

Now, I prolly look like one of those hedonists (and I do subscribe to alot of that - the internet is not the best place to discuss these kinda things
vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  113
Posts :  1187
Posted : Oct 12, 2004 08:13
Quote:

It drifted away from mdma and psychedelics, toward alcohol and crystal meth. Alcohol, crystal meth and the involvement of criminal syndicates killed the scene.



i've got to agree with you here. i'm not any sort of advocate for drug use, but certain chemicals have a certain influence on the scene. i've seen more meth use than i'd ever care to, and let me tell you, that shit is a fuckin party demon.
Liquid-Vision


Started Topics :  3
Posts :  660
Posted : Oct 12, 2004 08:14
IMO to limit drug use trance needs to be kept underground. Its not easy, but i've dealt with this topic for years in the trance scene in Russia. Going to a big party there with thousands of people on speed/e who would dance(or twitch :/) even if all was playing as a drum kick, over and over again is really disgusting. They ruin vibes, dont know anything about the music, and cause problems(fights, overdoses etc), and theres nothing you can do about it when trance is simply becomming more commercial,attracting more people, and a great deal of those people aren't one with the spirit of trance, and have no desire to reach such a goal. Its sad indeed
daya


Started Topics :  8
Posts :  307
Posted : Oct 12, 2004 09:44
i hope i get the point of this one. i think psytrance scene should not dropping out its psy (any psy or psychedelic). but what i understand from what Surrenders explained is when the people missing the positive value of the scene include the beauty, the art and the healing function of the scene: music, dance and art movement and vision. we all know that 99.99% of US people are drug user, that is why we all go to the drug store when we get sick, and 99.99% of chemical drug created from natural source & plants, etc. the point is, are we using it for the right direction? the answer is depend in who's direction (bad drugs for us maybe good for them and smart drugs for us are not digestable by their mind). but we also know that the idea of modern psytance is Love, sharing, awareness, good knowledge, beauty and magical experience from the great colorful and diverse of open minded human being toward its surrounding, where the use of any substance (music, vision, organic or chemical foods, beverage, etc) become a rythm of total positive energy where we can't find in our daily life such at work, at politician arena, at capitalis game, at preachers throne, etc. means drug abusers doesn't belong to this ring. hh well maybe i am just another preacher... who knows...
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gatsby
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  17
Posts :  178
Posted : Oct 12, 2004 18:08
I would suggest perhaps more of a community structure to new dance events might help.

Gaian Mind is run by a pagan church (4 quarters). Maybe more of a spiritual intent and more community focus is needed to bring people back to the beauty and transformative, energy-emitting values of the dance. Something similar at play in Burning Man.

Unless you lift the event out of the consumer economy somehow, what you will eventually have are consumers, not participants.

Membership based events can also keep out dealers and allow you more direction to the event.

One of the non-commercial trance events in Chicago is run out of a Unitarian church, and the other big one happens at yoga centers and frequently features yoga, massage, tai chi and things like that on the side.
Infinite_Sun


Started Topics :  2
Posts :  34
Posted : Oct 12, 2004 19:09
There is a fine difference between Use and Abuse. Not to sound elitest, but when we do parties we do take precautions and limitations to keep out the people that just came to get Effed up. Sometimes they leak through and show up in the forest anyway.... The problem with drug abusers showing up at a "commercial" party will not ever go away.
~innocence~


Started Topics :  1
Posts :  8
Posted : Oct 13, 2004 00:11
of all the posts i have read over the years on isra.. this is by far the most thought provoking and immensely relevant to every individual in the trance-dance community..

the issue that surrender speaks of... the corruption of the psy-party experience by drug abuse is not something that is limited to nyc or the US in particular.. this is the major problem facing trance communities all over the world and the very reason that now anything related to trance and its peripherals is considered illegal in some countries resulting in frequent busts of the parties by the cops or the narcs.

personally there have been times when i have had to leave a party in just a few hours because i could not handle the delinqueny and disrespect to the culture by drug-fucked individuals.... and it honestly breaks my heart 'cause the inherent power of trance is wasted on such people..
though i agree that a drug may enhance the experience.. trance itself is potent enough to take us to those altered states of reality we all seek, if we truely understand the music... each build up... each break... each change in the bassline.. and each reverberation it causes to our existence.

i still remember the first party i danced through for what seemed like eternity without a single substance in my body... it was an eye-opening experience.. there was a point in time i felt i was tripping on nothing but the pure energy the music generated.. and that was when i truely understood what the music can do to our mind, body and spirit...


Nik
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  37
Posts :  455
Posted : Oct 13, 2004 03:42
Ok I see on this topic we are discussing some little personal NYC dirty secrets
Well what I think about this, first of all!!! To all the police or other type of agents, snitches bitches who might read this I DONT USE DRUGS
But I would assume that people who use certain drugs, mentioned above by our fearless moderator (I will call him for constipation Mr. S). Would defiantly need to do some leader changes because they keep getting low quality product here or it maybe just seems so to me
About psychedelic partys and drugs I think name Psychedelic Trance explains it all, even for those who not so familiar with psychoactives... thats pretty much why if people at work or other places ask me what I listen to I say some kind of fast techno
Anyways
I get your point Mr. S and on my behalf just want to say this, New York needs much more changes than the one you pointed at many things here dont seem to go same as other places in the world
nikilukipuki


Started Topics :  6
Posts :  156
Posted : Oct 13, 2004 03:59
have to agree NYC and its five boroghs do have a serious drug problem, not only in trance scene but in its major part outside of it. this is the evil shit thats ruining many lives. and it seems that it will never change. the trance parties and all other clubs will always have prolems like police busting the party or someone dying from OD and then the owner of clubs would hide dead bodys in a basement closet or some shit like this. i wish it can change but i think its not gonna change in our lifetime. people will make their own choice. maybe when the good party will be missed. NYC SOS 999
krisamadhi
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  114
Posts :  546
Posted : Oct 13, 2004 04:47
its everywhere!
http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/46114/forum/11/start/0

solution - small private partys, that include a potluck, aum circle, lots of hanging out and talking,......
then party time!!!!          Kri
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spliffnik
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  53
Posts :  663
Posted : Oct 13, 2004 12:23
I agree with you Kri- after all how can you expect to make a party in the heart of NYC in a club which will naturally attract 'non-trance ppl' and expect to make a spiritual experience out of it? It is much more difficult to feel a connection to people just from being in the same club for 8 hours, especially when most of the people around you have no care for the other people, the music, or its culture. There is less things to share in common- some may share the love for the music, but among many factors there is no love for the LOCATION- do not underestimate this! To be able to approach another person in a beautiful outdoor location and to be able to share the appreciation for the beauty of nature is a VERY strong link to one another. I doubt too many people in clubs approach one another and share their love for the beauty and power of the danceclub.
I would like to write more, but right now I dont have enough time. The point I want to manke is: the power that this music holds cannot be fully accessed indoors, in an oppressive environment like a big club with many security and etc. You need to go outdoors. There, far away from home, you can connect with more people. There are many reasons why this is so, but one is that it helps realize our connection with each other, and to the Mother Earth. Another is that we have an entire weekend to spend with each other. To take this idea further, Burning Man is the ultimate place to form a community- to spend ONE WEEK with each other covered in dust, in a harsh environment such as the desert, we MUST help each other to survive out there. That is why the community is so strong among Burners, even when we are in the off-playa world. That is what is lacking in NYC, the community and connection to one another. That is what the post industrial revolution city environment successfully does, is to isolate one another. Surrender's experience regarding the scene being poisoned attests to this. I am not saying it is impossible to make an indoor event into a spiritual experience, but that the environment makes it very difficult to do so. It is like trying to make a beautiful garden in the middle of the desert- that is not what the desert is 'meant' to do.
My suggestion- go underground, move outdoors, go back to the roots. Mainstream commercial parties in clubs may bring in high production quality, but you will sacrifice so much for it. It is not a place that was designed to have this kind of experience. Believe me, from seeing both sides of the coin in Tokyo, these club type events with the ULTIMATE production quality have taken to concept of commercial indoor club trance to the max (which is amzing for sure with humongous speakers and top notch talent, but the vibe is DEAD) just dont have what the small, intimate outdoor parties have. Forget about trying to bring in the newest sounds, biggest speakers, and the most people. This is not consistent with what the trance message holds.
Bringing new people to the music is great- but it must be done the right way. There must be a community that exists, and members within the community bring in their friends slowly, and 'initiate' them the right way. Attracting people through flyers, and indirect and impersonal means will not bring the right people to the scene. To build the scene the right way, you need the family, the mutual love, and lots of time. Do not be in a hurry, it will happen if it was meant to happen. Do not force it.
Well that is aobut all I have to say for this time. Nice topic touching on so much, interested to see whre it goes. And Gadi, best wishes to you- you will find what you seek eventually.
Peace,
Spliffnik
Surrender
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  506
Posts :  5388
Posted : Oct 13, 2004 16:21
spliffnik, one thing i wanted to refine is that Ecliptic Trance events were held in a club, that much is true. but as far as transforming it into another dimension - that was done for sure and the non-psy people coming to ET parties was close to none.
your statement holds water regarding events by Tsunami@ Vinyl/Spirit or Liran at Avalon/Crobar. These places attract people due to their location and name regardless of the event of the specific night. this was not the case in our parties where i drew my observations from unfortunately.

i think you are correct about leaving the concrete jungle, it has little to do with trance vibe wise and attract unwanted participants.
          "On the other hand, you have different fingers."
http://myspace.com/gadimon
spliffnik
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  53
Posts :  663
Posted : Oct 13, 2004 16:54
interesting.....thanks Surrender for informing me more of your situation on the thread. Although I do not have all the information regarding your situation, I will try my best to put in my two bits and broaden what I say so that it may still be helpful without knowing fully the circumstances.
So I wanted to ask what do you(and all others) think it was, that turned your gatherings (which you says used to have that vibe and the peple who understood, which I believe you really did:) )into what it turned into during your last days organizing the ecliptic parties?@Drug use is obviously one issue, but I think that is not the root of the problem. The root of the problem is that people who did not participate/contribute in making the vibe come true and spreading the positive energy on the dancefloor outnumbered those who did(perhaps not numerically, but overall energy-wise). They can do that in many ways, be it drug use, fighting, too much sleaziness, etc etc. So I was led to believe that it is the people that started coming that did not understand the message. So HOW do you think they start coming to your party? What characteristics of the environment attracted these kinds of people? Maybe it is for no particular reason, just that being in an accessible place without much effort to get there, it was due to be discovered by these people some time or another. Although the solution to this is the key point it may be helpful to understand the root of the problem and how it can be avoided.
So still my suggestion would be go to underground, start from the ground up with your close family and friends. Let it spread, but slowly, carefully, and most of all organically. I think the impersonal means of distributing information regarding your gatherings is best to be avoided. It is certainly a better option, rather than putting your own ass on the line to throw a party that is ruined by a bunch of junkies.
The magic you spoke of is now gone- for now. Start over from a situation you can control, build a new community with people who share what you believe in, and let it become what it was meant to become. Although I said it is more difficult to do this indoors, it is not impossible by any means, and the Ecliptic parties that was mentioned in the past can prove.
Or, come up with your own option, as long as it doesn't consist of what was happening before, and you are happy with your actions/decisions. Many souls are out there that share what you believe in, and will be out there to help and support whatever you try to do! Best of luck spreading the Light in NYC
Peace,
Spliffnik
Eklypz


Started Topics :  7
Posts :  359
Posted : Oct 13, 2004 19:19
Quote:

On 2004-10-13 04:47, krisamadhi wrote:


solution - small private partys, that include a potluck, aum circle, lots of hanging out and talking,......
then party time!!!!



I think this is awesome if you have a set group of core psy people to do this with but in Iowa where we want the scene to grow and expand this would be seen as exclusive and turn people off to the psy scene (much like I got turned off to it in SF when I lived there . I guess there are divergent missions in different parts of the world, but I am very open to hearing from the psy veteran promoters from the coastal tribes (and followng the problems here with interest to be wary of) on growing the scene here in Iowa which has a very pure energy (not very tainted by things mentioned here or done irresponsibly), it is a very earthy and subtle energy though

I should mention that I have thrown raves for 6 years but psy only events are a bit different I have discovered..
gatsby
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  17
Posts :  178
Posted : Oct 13, 2004 21:16
Quote:

On 2004-10-13 19:19, Eklypz wrote:
I am very open to hearing from the psy veteran promoters from the coastal tribes (and followng the problems here with interest to be wary of) on growing the scene here in Iowa which has a very pure energy (not very tainted by things mentioned here or done irresponsibly), it is a very earthy and subtle energy though



It is very difficult here in Chicago to find outdoor venues, so take advantage of all that wide open space to find yourself an outdoor spot to host a dance festival. There's really no outdoor midwestern dance festival (yet). You are closer than Omnidance, Gaian Mind and Neptunalia to Chicago, so if you found a good outdoor location it would be cool.

Otherwise you are in a subcultural low density zone so I would continue to build online community via email lists, blogs and websites, and once you meet someone with the right spirit make sure you get them in the online community.

Also network with other subcultures such as bi/gay/lesbian, entheogenic, pagans, yoga, etc. and electronic dance.

G
Trance Forum  Forum  North America - nyc trance and drugs
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