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Myopic novices and the art of their music (PSYTRANCE)
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nyama
Nyama
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
745
Posted : Jan 24, 2010 10:07
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On 2010-01-24 04:22, Inner Demon wrote:
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On 2010-01-23 17:37, auralserenity wrote:
Guys this might be my last post to the forum.
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Please make it so. Amen. Hallelujah etc.
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I am going to be busy with this studio thing. I'll have to re-setup the complete studio of mine.
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Of course you do.
Thanks, but no thanks. Bye now.
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 - me puts a smile again
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www.catawampus-records.co.uk |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jan 24, 2010 10:20
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Maska - I think we all have to be tolerant of other viewpoints, especially if they threaten ours, simply because then we have to re-evaluate ours for superiority given a new evidence set.
Everyone - This thread to me has become a shouting match of opinions. But the main issue I want to address and bring to your attention has still not been discussed. That is the perception of novice music as being good enough to drive the party and release scene.
But I would argue that a lack of criticism on ideological grounds and technical lack is swamping the visible psy scene wrt parties and releases with low quality music. This has the effect of repelling any new incoming participants. Basically killing the scene.
Additionally it looks as if the novice "feel" is being mimicked as a trend by the better artists who want to keep up with times.
But who wants to go to a party where all the music sounds the same and is all equally bad.
Would anyone care to falsify this view with some evidence of numbers? How many of you know of people from outside who are amazed by the originality of the present psy scene? |
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Colin OOOD
Moderator
Started Topics :
95
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5380
Posted : Jan 24, 2010 14:36
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On 2010-01-24 10:20, bukboy wrote:
superiority
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This, I think, is part of the mindset that causes problems when your posts rub up against people who don't consider themselves to be in competition with the rest of the world - and who in fact consider such a mindset to be a driving force behind many of the world's problems.
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| I would argue that a lack of criticism on ideological grounds and technical lack is swamping the visible psy scene wrt parties and releases with low quality music. This has the effect of repelling any new incoming participants. Basically killing the scene.
Additionally it looks as if the novice "feel" is being mimicked as a trend by the better artists who want to keep up with times.
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What is your evidence for this? Which tracks are you thinking about specifically?
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Would anyone care to falsify this view with some evidence of numbers? How many of you know of people from outside who are amazed by the originality of the present psy scene?
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I've seen more than a few psy-n00bs have the most amazing time at their first psy event recently, and there are other similar stories on the UK psy forum about other people taking friends for the first time.
Anyway before anyone tries to 'falsify your view', it's surely more appropriate that you provide evidence for your assertions; the burden of persuasion is on you, not anyone else.
Mastering - http://mastering.OOOD.net :: www.is.gd/mastering
OOOD 5th album 'You Think You Are' - www.is.gd/tobuyoood :: www.OOOD.net
www.facebook.com/OOOD.music :: www.soundcloud.com/oood
Contact for bookings/mastering - colin@oood.net |
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PsyGalaXy
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
68
Posts :
437
Posted : Jan 24, 2010 19:15
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jan 24, 2010 21:40
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Colin - Advantage seeking is a practical concept. One that I have to deal with despite having been in denial, but on the whole its made me a better person. For those who prefer to doubt that there's a world of advantage seekers out there and instead live in denial I hope that they'll get a wake-up call soon.
If I name any tracks or artists by name then I would be inconsiderate no? We can talk about it personally if you like. (You still owe me a response on the other thread which was moved by the mod)
Maybe the scene in UK is better? Locals and foreigners Im in contact with complain about "Halloween" psy.
I would also give you evidence but that would involve giving names. Too personal.
So can you really say that your experience is completely different and you have no idea what Im talking about? |
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the daleks
The Daleks
Started Topics :
34
Posts :
584
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 09:32
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+1 on Britney Spears.. the Circus album rocks, there are some real gems on there, and I'd say shes one of the few artists of present time (post-grunge era) who has weathered the pop storm of stardom and actually developed some real depth, while embracing electronic music more than any other artist i can hear now. the funny thing is i would never have said this before 
reading this thread has been kind of interesting with many good posts. I think Aeon was spot on, just maybe the OP took as being an attack, but really wasnt, just all gotta keep you cools
anyway, its asking for trouble, and bad dialectic to start off debate with such a leading question like
'is it true that....'
Is it true that your mother sucks eggs?
Is it true that all people of X have bad Y, and therefore bad Z?
asking for trouble man. hopefully you can get the point. a better idea would have been, 'whats up with psytrance.. I heard this from this guy, how can this be and what do you guys think'
anyway i agree and dont get this pro vs amatuer debate either. One thing that we all need to remember is that good music takes time. it doesnt happen overnight where everyone is saying your name and girls throwing the panties etc. Its possible that the scene got a little diluted with over-excuberant youngsters posting "how to make killer bassline for kick you in the head track"or attitude of the like. I never wanted to get kicked in the head in the first place lol. Take your time, hurry up, dont be late..
in my journeys, I have worn a suit with businessmen in seminars, barefoot on the slopes of mt fuji with banging trance, in the mosh pit with 90% of the crowd wearing flannel, and small sweaty livehouses with jazz, blues, rock etc. in all of these places there had always been music, and everyone likes good music and a good party. except people who dont like loud music and lots of people, but you wouldnt see them there then
BUT, the point is DONT STOP THE MUSIC!
unless it sucks, in which point stop it. but who am i to judge. one can always go elsewhere. still its more fun to hear all the beautiful noize out there that comes from various minds, than the perpetual silence. it may be more stuff to sort through to get the good stuff, but doenst mean it isnt there. Even X-Dream and Alien Project had to start somewhere. Maybe they were lucky cuz they got there before the crowd. But some people get tired and hang up their gloves or loose the joy that made them start the music in the first place, and new people come in too, so all this psytrance is dead talk is just crap, unless you believed Tsuyoshi when he said it, but i think he was tongue in cheek when he said it then too (maybe)
Gamma Riders EP out now on iTunes and Amazon.com!
The Daleks : www.myspace.com/thedaleksupreme
A-Boys : www.myspace.com/akibaboys |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 11:21
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Daleks - My only prob is that no-one is doing anything about the dilution. "Its all good" is not all good. |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
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2822
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 12:31
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I can see the 'dilution' argument if there weren't any good albums being released in the psy trance scene, but I find a lot of the new psy to be quite amazing. Certainly there is more shitty full-on and side-genres than ever before that I don't particularly appreciate...but that doesn't (imo) inherently degrade psy, anymore than any other of the various multitudes of shit music out there.
As for novice psy and upcoming acts...I can't comprehend how you can say that newer people getting into DJing/live acts is killing the scene. You should develop a base-level of technical skill before attempting to perform of course, but as someone else said you have to start somewhere.
Those making new psy and getting used to performing and working with the crowd are the *seeds* of psytrance, not its demise |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 13:14
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Yes but what if the base level technical skill is making a bass kick and squuawk. And everyone does the same, will you bother waiting till the good stuff comes on, esspecially if all the acts are just as base?
Can you point me in thge direction of the new amazing psy? I love good psy. Last good thing I heard is from phatmatix. Those french guys sure can get an education before modulating it over the base level bass kick and squawk dwaf dwaf. |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 13:51
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my favorite releases of 2009 were Terrafractyl - Chrysalis and Tron - Biologic...at least from my perspective very technical and very very kick-ass.....the Terrafractyl album is probably the best non-Twisted stuff I've heard in the past couple years
As for 'waiting till the good stuff' - its all about picking your parties...when I went to Orb festival this year and saw Live Hallucinogen, Total Eclipse, Zen Mechanics, Unwashed Tomato etc I had a good baseline for what to expect when it came to quality - I knew most of the names and friends vouched for the ones I didnt know and it was pretty awesome...a couple of weeks later I went to a smaller psy trance event where I knew only one name (earworm!) and the rest not at all - figured probably not as high quality but i'll see what happens...and therefore I wasn't *too* angry when the guy trying to spin dark train wrecked a couple of times later in the night 
If you go into every party expecting to be blown away by the originality of the music and skill of the musicians/djs or what have you - especially as a producer yourself with a large hunk of knowledge regarding the scene - you will no doubt be disappointed, particularly if you go to smaller local events (at least in my limited experience).
I will definitely agree that there is a lot of formulaic, almost completely non-psychedelic Full-On coming out there days, however I still find that there is enough potential experience to be found as to have it worth the risk of having my time wasted occasionally |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 14:12
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Thanks for the suggests. Will listen.
One thing that puzzles me though, is why I cant have any expectations if I pay money? Does that make me stupid for paying to find out? Learning costs school fees? |
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-aeon-
Aeon
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
546
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 16:49
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by halloween psy, do you mean generic night-time horror vocal samples, silly predictable basslines and dark music that isn't remotely dark or atmospheric? 
good psy i like at the moment:
- gappeq. check out 'tower of babel' for an idea of just how interesting and unique darker psy can be.
- sonic species. underground morning beauty of the highest order; impeccably well produced, with restraint and understatement.
- voice of cod. i hate recommending artists when i know they'll read the recommendation but it's seriously good music.
http://www.myspace.com/aeonaeon |
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soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
875
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 17:27
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I 100% forbid anyone to miss out Talpa, when it comes to great psy. Especially for those more interested in composition than out and out pot twiddling.
Principles of flight - Check out their myspace for some hard psy/techno fusion grooves.
If you haven't heard of scorb already, then you better sort your life out.
The chap in the post above is delicously musical in a most tasteful manner. The break in "sense/dep" is particularly nice
You really don't have to look far.
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braininavat
Started Topics :
5
Posts :
233
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 19:46
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On 2010-01-21 15:46, Inner Demon wrote:
Try to have fun instead of putting such an existentialist spin on it...
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I've noticed within myself and others this is one of the problems when you are young and take pyschedelics. Everything becomes wanna be "deep" and trying to find the meaning behind everything.
The reality is your alive and some day you are not going to be, none of this is going to mean much anyway. If psytrance is so painful and boring to you, then find something that is fun today...
If you don't know people around you that are into psytrance then maybe you are really wasting your time. I know if I was 20 I sure the hell wouldn't be banishing myself to a laptop in a room to make weird music no one listens to. Would probly join a punk band, if only because there is a thriving social scene for young people around here in that genre.
Sure its inspiring to get ideas from movies, alot more inspiring to bounce ideas off other people actually in person and when there is an actual audience that might care a bit. |
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willsanquil
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
93
Posts :
2822
Posted : Jan 25, 2010 22:48
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Braininavat...I have some problems with some of the things in your post, well not so much problems as differences....
sure, if you go to a psy festival there will always be the experience of some random 20-something (or in my experience, 30-something, 40-something) hopped up on E and LSD running around trying to spark the next intellectual revolution by telling you their philosophy on how god is inside everyone and on and on....sometimes its serious, sometimes its just the compulsion of the drug mix. The "reality" is that we don't really understand an immense portion of whats going on, but to not ponder or attempt to at least gain an appreciation for our own realities then...what's the point? To just hedonistically get as high as you can before you die? Have as much "fun" as possible? I'd rather dedicate myself to spiritual/emotional/intellectual stimulation and exploration even knowing that I more than likely will never find an 'answer' as opposed to the various other currently available ways of pissing away my life (thanks materialist commercialized culture!)
Time to quote some Tool!:
"Repugnant is a creature who would squander the ability
To lift an eye to heaven, conscious of his fleeting time here."
Sure, sometimes dancing to psy at a party/festival is just euphoric, happy-fun-time. However, some of the most life-changing events and thought patterns have happened and emerged courtesy of the psy-trance scene - the music, the people, the vibe, everything.
As for the audience....I have over the years been to a lot of different kinds of concerts and never experienced ANYTHING even *remotely* close to the depth of personal investment on the artists/audiences behalf as I do at psy events.
Psy is a thriving world scene, and I know a lot of people in the actual audience who care more than they are able to express.
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