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mp3 , youtube , and quality media
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Mar 12, 2008 13:03
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hypocrisy ???
Soulseek was a blessing to my life
this is where i shared all my first beats , and got the response from the peaple direct by talking with anyone downloading my stuff , what can be better...
it wasnt mp3 btw all the time , it was p2p progrem , what meen you can do whatever you want with it. i shared also my own .wav files , but the world choose to turn this into mp3 trading center. ok. so i left it , and become "standart" artist , now you all have to wait untill i sign a track , the label make his move , then it ripped into the net , well baisicly what changed is that peaple now wait 6 month longer to my tunes.
the topic is not about who download , youtube is free for all right ????
so , just to get more clear at you
how do you like the fact that the biggest media site in the world has such shitty quality ? or you dont nootice that just like with mp3..
beside all that , i do download "lost" evry week cause i cant wait , even that i pay about 300 shekel to cable tv and its air there about 4 days later.
i also download cds sometimes before i buy them , no one can afford to buy all realeses , the samples offered in the shops are so bad , and beside i listen to new stuff in the other computer which have no net.
i defintly not trying to pump "buy originals" here , this battle is lost 5 years ago... i just trying to remind peaple that its degrade of quality and asking how they like this new world of lower file size and shitier quality , do you think its gonna change back with technology ability to compress files and not loose any quality ?
im only asking if you dont like your orginals better then your mp3 folder. if you do then why ?
p.s if you mentioned cd prices
in the last doof festival they sold all their realeses in 30-50 shekels , sold 10 cds (5000 peaple)
in small (300 peaple) party i did we offered peaple cds for 40 shekels along with their ticket , 0 sales.
so not sure its the price.. maybe for you , but for other peaple they allready forgot it even exist.  www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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lucidpicnic
Lucid Picnic
Started Topics :
132
Posts :
855
Posted : Mar 12, 2008 13:30
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Soul Kontakt
Soul Kontakt
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
632
Posted : Mar 12, 2008 13:35
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On 2008-03-11 21:43, mk47 wrote:
i can never tell a mp3 (gem , psycz etc) from an original .. untrained ears maybe , but i got good sound in my car ... i tested with quite a few random people also .. nobody could tell ..
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I can easily tell between mp3 and wav that's for sure and also from experience when i play dj set sometimes i play an old track in mp3 format and it does sound much more low quality than the wav, even the people in the dancefloor can feel it i know.
Yes low quality music is not good for the scene! I realise that people still get the music free mp3 downloads but artists should make available the tracks in wav nowadays people don't buy cd's anymore so the only way to spread your music crystal clear so people can enjoy it! Then give them the option of buying an original too, so those people who love music can help the artist by buying the cd or even if they just love to buy originals (in my case for example)...Anyway my message is spread the high quality and forget the low quality!
Boom :)
SOUL KONTAKT - 12th Planet new track on www.myspace.com/soulkontakt
Soul Kontakt Live for demo or booking email soulkontakt@hotmail.com
www.soulkontakt.com |
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1jAdE3
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
167
Posted : Mar 29, 2008 04:11
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[quote]
On 2008-03-12 13:35, Soul Kontakt wrote:
[quote]
... nowadays people don't buy cd's anymore
[quote]
Musik is very importent for my life.
Everytime when i order some CDs i'm excited how the artwork of the cover will look like.
Then I usually enjoy the sound or build new sets.
In our society it's necessary to think about the word value.
As I accept the value for 1 liter milk or for a book I definetly accept the value of art.
For me it seems absurd that people are willing to pay more money for a plastic bag in the supermarket( 5 or 10 cent ) than for art(music). Ripped music sucks
However
>
I must be on my way
<<
...and place the next order of Original CD's
>>>
><<<<
<<<<<<< Full support
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Mar 30, 2008 15:53
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-12 01:57, rich wrote:
Quote:
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On 2008-03-12 01:20, Elad wrote:
btw there is frequency u cant hear but feel (which is known that this is what mp3 DELETE from the file in order to compress it)
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They were saying the same thing between vinyl and CDs. I'd love to hear vinyl (no scratches please) on a good big system again after mp3s. What a difference that would be.
As far as movies, I know from firsthand experience, kids these days watch new releases on the PCs cos it's cheaper (free) and they don't have to do any work (get a ride, get some friends together, get some cash, etc). Also it fits the restless lifestyle - they can pause it, go and skate, come back and watch more, pause it, do some homework, watch more. Convenient. The only time they go to the movie theatre is when it's a good movie that deserves a big screen and their dad is paying  So, seems like with movies and music, if they feed us mediocre drivel it will get treated like that. Give us quality and it will get some respect.
But, sometimes music comes to us from one of those mediums, like myspace or youtube and it kicks ass (check out the music video for Justice's D.A.N.C.E.) and its a treat cos we would never have come to it any other way (who watches MTV anymore?).
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----technical note. mp3 is a lossy compression format at any compression rate. There are altered bits and there is missing data. Higher bit rates afford lesser rates of compression but its still not the same file.
its not something mystical or hard to pin down like the case with vinyl or analog mystique. its a straight up lower quality lossy compression thing.
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youtube is fine and all. i dont think anyone would think of playing some streamed audio format over a sound system. many times the videos have sound recorded live from the videocamera microphone even!
---
until we have massive improvements in worldwide bandwidth for internet, with corresponding drops in hosting prices for high bandwidth websites, we wont see high quality music for download in wide use.
wav and aiff are somewhat expensive (to pay for the bandwidth) for the pirates and such giving away music, movies, apps, etc...
expect that stuff to remain mp3.
why do you think they all use that shitty rapidshare or whatever?
check out the mp3 on download and then get the real cd and many times you will be amazed at the difference.
provided you use decent headphones or speakers in the first place.
im amazed at how crappy earbuds and boomboxes still are regarding distortion, bass response overall frequency response, and some weird built-in dynamics processing in many cases...
first improvement is get some real headphones or speakers- if you say you love trance you should respect it and listen to it with decent playback equipment at least...
buy secondhand quality equipment rather than the latest boombox from megaelectronicsmart that promised 10,000 watts but only delivers 10...
decent headphones can be had quite cheaply these days... plus you look like a dj when travelling around:) |
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ocelot
ocelot
Started Topics :
94
Posts :
783
Posted : Mar 30, 2008 16:03
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-12 13:03, Elad wrote:
hypocrisy ???
Soulseek was a blessing to my life
this is where i shared all my first beats , and got the response from the peaple direct by talking with anyone downloading my stuff , what can be better...
it wasnt mp3 btw all the time , it was p2p progrem , what meen you can do whatever you want with it. i shared also my own .wav files , but the world choose to turn this into mp3 trading center. ok. so i left it , and become "standart" artist , now you all have to wait untill i sign a track , the label make his move , then it ripped into the net , well baisicly what changed is that peaple now wait 6 month longer to my tunes.
the topic is not about who download , youtube is free for all right ????
so , just to get more clear at you
how do you like the fact that the biggest media site in the world has such shitty quality ? or you dont nootice that just like with mp3..
beside all that , i do download "lost" evry week cause i cant wait , even that i pay about 300 shekel to cable tv and its air there about 4 days later.
i also download cds sometimes before i buy them , no one can afford to buy all realeses , the samples offered in the shops are so bad , and beside i listen to new stuff in the other computer which have no net.
i defintly not trying to pump "buy originals" here , this battle is lost 5 years ago... i just trying to remind peaple that its degrade of quality and asking how they like this new world of lower file size and shitier quality , do you think its gonna change back with technology ability to compress files and not loose any quality ?
im only asking if you dont like your orginals better then your mp3 folder. if you do then why ?
p.s if you mentioned cd prices
in the last doof festival they sold all their realeses in 30-50 shekels , sold 10 cds (5000 peaple)
in small (300 peaple) party i did we offered peaple cds for 40 shekels along with their ticket , 0 sales.
so not sure its the price.. maybe for you , but for other peaple they allready forgot it even exist.
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dont offer the option. include it in the door price. thats a good way to get it in every hand. |
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Stregone
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1252
Posted : Mar 30, 2008 16:11
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I will write some true things here to try to answer to you in a different way
Most part of the people, around 95%, who listen to music or go to partys or watch movies, can't hear the difference between a 192 kbps mp3 well coded and a wav.....
Most of the people who listen to music at home, car or watch a movie do it for passing the time and prefer to rent it for cheap or download it for free and watch or listen it in bad quality because maybe they will sleep at half of the film or listen it by doing other things during the day...
Most of the freaks at a big festival, maybe 5000 people, are so fucked up by drugs, drunken or tired who will not really hear a dj is playing wav, 320 kbps, 192 kbps, they will probably notice if a dj makes a wrong mix but not much more.... and anyway the sound will go on and who cares let's have a blast...
youtube is in such a bad quality for some reasons, first one is as much quality they give as much they have to pay for streaming servers...
Second one is not all people has got very good internet connection flux rate, so like that everybody can more or less watch those videos in streaming... and they have bigger audience..
Those things are not good things but are reality....
Many young people listen their music by the mobile phone... with that little speaker who gives a fuck on the quality of the song....
Because of that what is important for the artists and labels is to make sgood promotion with dj's so they can play their music in partys at good quality...
Labels and resellers should have started years ago to sells good quality lossless without digital rights, for reasonable price ( 50 cts of dollar a song) and a friendly to buy way... and even if now is late, is never too late to try....
I try to buy all cd I really like directly from the label or the artists, but is not so easy and often you can't have it when you need that track to play, ordering from shops is a way to get those cd's some weeks after release, but it's always a fucking shit to buy a cd, pay delivering, boarder tax, cd and then having a compil with 2 good tracks.... so often is better to buy it online, but you don't have the wav... flac always give me some problems while burning them to go play... and downloading mp3's in 192 kbps is a good way to listen to all the music who comes out, but if then you have to go play that to a party with a good soundsystem, it's a shitty because you knbow you haven't paid the artist, you play mp3 music who will be noticed by 5% of the audience.. and it's not cool, but I know many dj's who do that and don't give a fuck, hey people dance anyway...
So finally.... we've been loosing a lot of quality... problem is just few people notice that.... very few....
To improve quality the move should comes by big distributors and labels and resellers.... the big mass will never do nothing.....
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
Posts :
2035
Posted : Mar 31, 2008 10:38
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I want to raise a point people here ignored.
The fact that you are not aware of a difference doesn't say it doesn't exist. The fact that you are not aware that the experience of listening to an mp3 is inferior than that of listening to wav, doesn't say it isn't. There are things in any experience in life that make it stronger/better/fuller that you can't necessarily point to.
For example: most people might not be aware of a very subtle cool breeze when they enjoy an amazing sunset, that doesn't mean that that subtle cool breeze doesn't enhance their sunset experience. And every experience is built of many little unnoticed effect like this one. Together they amount to the full experience.
It is the same with sound. People might not be fully able to point the difference between a 192 mp3 and a wav. People might not be fully able to point the difference between a good receiver and an average computer sound card. People might not be fully able to point the difference between really good speakers and decent computer speakers. People might not be fully able to point the difference between a good set up of a stereo in a room to two speakers really close to each other in a room full of furniture. BUT! If you listen to a wav of well produced music in a good system well arranged in the room, and then compare it to 192 mp3 from a computer with average sound card in a badly organized room- you'll feel the difference- believe me!!!
All I can tell you people that are so keen on the low quality for free revolution (and I've seen some people defend it with almost fanatical zeal)- you don't know what you're missing!!!
---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
593
Posted : Mar 31, 2008 14:37
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I buy a lot of releases and I have a pair of bm6as at home I'm sorry to say but I cannot tell any difference between a correctly encoded vbr mp3 and a 16bit 44.1 wav found on a cd.. I think you guys are just trying to convince yourself of something that has been discussed and discussed over and over...
Sorry but for a all practical purposes, there is no difference. I don't have a subwoofer true so what you're "feeling" can be coming from there I don't know.
Please don't force me to ask Undertow and put you all to school  |
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800 Deathsticks
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
61
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 21:00
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Just Say NO to MP3s! They are okay for home listening but NOT acceptable to play at any reasonably sized party. Out of nice speakers or a PA system the difference is huge. Anyone who spends enough time listening to this music on decent speakers will be able to tell the difference between MP3 and WAV very easily. Go ahead, test it yourself....but not in your car or on your ipod....you will see.
Elad....this battle might have been lost already, but who cares it is too important not to say again:
SUPPORT THE ARTISTS -- BUY ORIGINAL
Boom
http://www.myspace.com/800deathsticks
http://www.unwashedrecords.com |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Apr 15, 2008 23:40
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Quote:
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On 2008-03-31 10:38, shahar wrote:
I want to raise a point people here ignored.
The fact that you are not aware of a difference doesn't say it doesn't exist. The fact that you are not aware that the experience of listening to an mp3 is inferior than that of listening to wav, doesn't say it isn't. There are things in any experience in life that make it stronger/better/fuller that you can't necessarily point to.
For example: most people might not be aware of a very subtle cool breeze when they enjoy an amazing sunset, that doesn't mean that that subtle cool breeze doesn't enhance their sunset experience. And every experience is built of many little unnoticed effect like this one. Together they amount to the full experience.
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The point of the countless blind tests that has been done where people cannot tell the difference between high bitrate mp3 and wav is not to get people to describe how the sound has changed.
Usually the question is about which one people think sounds better.
If the unnoticed "breeze" in your example would have added to the experience then it would have affected the results regardless of if the participants in the test knew why.
Quote:
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It is the same with sound. People might not be fully able to point the difference between a 192 mp3 and a wav. People might not be fully able to point the difference between a good receiver and an average computer sound card. People might not be fully able to point the difference between really good speakers and decent computer speakers. People might not be fully able to point the difference between a good set up of a stereo in a room to two speakers really close to each other in a room full of furniture.
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What people might or might not be able to perceive in terms of differences with formats or equipment could be a source of conversation, but you still have the facts when it comes to results of listening test.
With high bitrate mp3's tests show again and again that it's near impossible to tell a well encoded high bitrate mp3 from a wav.
The same simply isn't true for the rest of your "mights".
@800 Deathsticks
I think it was mixmag who carried out a test on a top-end PA rig with various lossy formats vs wav.
Most the producers and DJ who participated was sure the would be able to pick the wav...but as usual in a blind test there was no consistency in their results.
It's really puzzling how many people claim that there is a huge difference between high bitrate mp3 and wav, and still every blind test I have come across shows that provided you use a high bitrate and a good encoder people cannot tell the difference, regardless of how good test equipment and ears you have.
But I agree that technically mp3 is not an ideal format. For low bitrates there is better lossy formats, and I don't like the fact that mp3 is proprietary.
Having lossless is good if you do any further processing or want to be able to compress the audio to a format of your choice without having to transcode.
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« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)
http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth |
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papay
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
213
Posted : Apr 16, 2008 15:35
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i don t even go to this 192mp3 vs wav debate i think it s utterly bullshit and you people really need to go to doctor A.S.A.P hearing sounds that arent there isn t normal
i watch a lots of documentaries streamed on google video and it doesn t really bother me that much if the picture is not perfect DVD quality...as somebody said it s convenient
and i also like to watch movies at home and arguments are obvious::::the fridge,the bong and my bed are all inside off 10 m(O_=) all necessery activities during a movie
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papay
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
213
Posted : Apr 16, 2008 15:39
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On 2008-03-12 13:30, lucidpicnic wrote:
people who are downloading music (talking about mp3s,mp4s) via soulseek, emule etc. should be aware that they are listening the music with the loss of %70 - 75 of the original outcome.
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so if i dl a pink floyd album i would be missing all the instruments except the vocals of that old english geezer?do you know how absurd that argument is i would really like to see some evidence to pack this shit up
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Elad
Tsabeat/Sattel Battle
Started Topics :
158
Posts :
5306
Posted : Apr 16, 2008 15:54
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^^ its easy
do you have original album in good sound?
if yes and im sure u must own some cds then download the mp3 version and check for yourself 
i have done it , many times.. and i know what i like.
and i agree alot that its the right encode sometimes since when i make mp3 320 it sounds like the wav 99% but on the usual p2p and the groups like psycz i dont know how they make such terrible quality encoding.
anywayz i started this topic more in a sense of how do you feel that with all the technologies we have then most viewd videos are in quality of the 50's? that with wireless its almost like trying to catch TV with antena like old days?
www.sattelbattle.com
http://yoavweinberg.weebly.com/ |
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papay
Started Topics :
6
Posts :
213
Posted : Apr 16, 2008 16:07
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On 2008-04-16 15:54, Elad wrote:
then most viewd videos are in quality of the 50's? that with wireless its almost like trying to catch TV with antena like old days?
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well if you dl some shitty cam copy then off course but watched yesterday axxo rip on one missed call and i can say the picture and sound were 10/10 even though the movie was terrible(childs soul inside a mobile phone hunting people=hollywood runnig out of ideas)
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