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mauxuam should be banned from psy parties
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IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 15, 2013 03:50
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This scene is a joke bussiness wise, not even festivals make enough profit as in other genres. So calling capitalist these promoters is a joke, it's a very small pie and everyone are fighting over it like dogs, not trying to expand it.
Get real people.
  "The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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mubali
Mubali
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Posted : May 15, 2013 04:53
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? So, you're not a capitalist unless you make big money? I find severe fault in that logic.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 15, 2013 05:25
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Quote:
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On 2013-05-15 04:53, mubali wrote:
? So, you're not a capitalist unless you make big money? I find severe fault in that logic.
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Yep, pretty accurate: people who want to make money know time=money. It would be a waste of time to be on this scene trying to get rich.
People that really wants to make money is on wall street, corps, entertainment, etc.
Take as reference other festivals that really are getting big and doing money as tomorrowland or Ultra, those are truly capitalists entrepreneurships.
It would be interesting to know the profits from boom or ozora, but I truly believe that there isn't a min cost, max profit operation.
I think what really gets in to the nerves of everyone here is that it seems the ethos, values or discourse of these scene doesn't reflect very well on how festivals are done, and alll the shady people around it. But it's not like it went big and a very few are cashing big bucks.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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mubali
Mubali
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Posted : May 15, 2013 06:10
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I can understand your perspective, and agree that the only money hungry would avoid this particular scene for something more lucrative. I do feel that there are predatory individuals in not just this, but every scene. Just because it isn't big money doesn't give anyone the ability to take advantage of others. The scene in this subculture is filled with people that don't want to make waves, and that allows individuals to take advantage of that. It's kind of funny that when someone who has had enough of just "doing it for the scene" and wants to be paid what their time is worth, they are public enemy #1. In the end, that's issue. How much is your time worth? If it's something where you just do it for fun in your free time, there's nothing wrong with doing it for the sake of doing it. And despite how many times artists get told, "There's no money in this scene, so get a job," there are contradictory information that circulates when you see upper tier acts performing 30+ shows a year and making anywhere from 3-100 times what you do.
From my experience, I've seen festivals that will lowball you because they have a "tight" budget, however you know that their "headline" act will pull 3 times more than you. Sometimes it's because they bring 3 times more people than you, sometimes it's just because they won't come any other way. And that's the final rub. If you say, no... you don't get to play. For some folks this is perfectly fine, but if you're not at that point where you can be selective about opportunities to show your talents to others you cave in and take it. This is exactly why this continues and probably will do so.
Maybe the festivals haven't "gone big" as you state, but there definitely are a small amount that are cashing in on a disproportionate amount of the small pie that already exists.
I know it's a novel, but I want to discuss another point that has been slightly overlooked in this matter. In *many* psychedelic trance events, the alternative stages seem to be considered an afterthought for many event coordinators. There are fewer events that apply equal focus to have all musical stages be just as good as their primary stage. I think this is also part of the issue that was raised.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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dick hardman
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 15, 2013 19:53
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I'm curious what makes the difference between the profit success of Tomorrowland or Ultra and Boom and Ozora (which we presume to not make much, if any profit). I mean, they both book and pay artists, pay for sound, pay for decor etc. Why does psy fail to profit and other edm festivals prosper? Is it simply a matter of the cost to attendance ratio?
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Ricciardo
IsraTrance Junior Member
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188
Posted : May 15, 2013 20:21
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On 2013-05-15 19:53, dick hardman wrote:
and Boom and Ozora (which we presume to not make much, if any profit)
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so your saying, that festivals that charge hundreeds of euros at gate and atended by dozens of thousands of people presumably dont have proffit??
hahahahahahahahhahahah
*im sorry, that was actually a very nice joke |
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vector_0
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 15, 2013 21:44
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i find maux's antics amusing. this thread has been fun to read as well.
though, as usual, the point he is trying to make is convoluted and underwhelming. The beginning of the rant started with saying the festival has gone to shit, lots of cops, too many israelis, etc. but then towards the end he says that he would have played for more money, but he didn't get the money so he won't play.
So, i don't really understand if he's just mad that the festival sucks, or that he feels his music/brand is undervalued. if its the latter, i gotta say, join the club, buddy.
i would also say, that i can't imagine anyone paying maux 1000 euros to play at a party. he says he "rocked it" but listening to some of the stuff on his soundcloud page, I can't imagine that would have been possible. its all really boring, alienating, or unfocused (IMO, of course). and comparing his fees to Shpongle's? that makes no sense. maux would need to be making much more widely understood & entertaining music (emphasis on MUSIC, maux. not noise or soundscapes) and selling a whole shit ton more of it to be comparing fees with simon P. or he should be pandering to a completely different circle of promoters...i know theres a market for noise and other "avant garde" sounds, but this sure as hell ain't it.
more power to him; like i said, i find it very entertaining....but i just don't get it. if someone within driving distance to me wanted to pay me $1000 i would just shut up and take the money. Instead I'm here in the "underground" scene of north america where promoters want me to drive 18 hours to play for free at 3am on a side stage. Either that or the gigs have various strings attached to these trance crews that (around here at least) are seeming more and more like cults every year.
$1000 (i'll take euros too) and a free trip sounds pretty damn good right now, but hey, i haven't walked a mile in his shoes so I won't judge too harshly. I do enjoy the promoter bashing though...this scene treats its musicians terribly. like, really really bad.
http://soundcloud.com/rob-vector |
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chickenshaker
Started Topics :
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22
Posted : May 15, 2013 22:44
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I guess he can start getting legitimately upset about being paid less than, let's say, SIMON POSFORD, when people stop asking "Who the f*ck is mauxuam?" |
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randulon
Started Topics :
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143
Posted : May 16, 2013 01:06
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In his defence he did make one cool downtempo album that had lots of groove to it and I think his DJ sets can/do/did represent that...I mean if Interchill Records think he is worthy of their releasing his music alongside artists like the much mentioned Simon Posford, as well Merv Pepler and Sebastian Taylor and many other lesser known but no less talented musicians...
He just seems to have quite a spikey attitude... |
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
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3171
Posted : May 16, 2013 05:37
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : May 16, 2013 05:45
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
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3315
Posted : May 18, 2013 02:35
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Quote:
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On 2013-05-15 06:10, mubali wrote:
I can understand your perspective, and agree that the only money hungry would avoid this particular scene for something more lucrative. I do feel that there are predatory individuals in not just this, but every scene. Just because it isn't big money doesn't give anyone the ability to take advantage of others. The scene in this subculture is filled with people that don't want to make waves, and that allows individuals to take advantage of that. It's kind of funny that when someone who has had enough of just "doing it for the scene" and wants to be paid what their time is worth, they are public enemy #1. In the end, that's issue. How much is your time worth? If it's something where you just do it for fun in your free time, there's nothing wrong with doing it for the sake of doing it. And despite how many times artists get told, "There's no money in this scene, so get a job," there are contradictory information that circulates when you see upper tier acts performing 30+ shows a year and making anywhere from 3-100 times what you do.
From my experience, I've seen festivals that will lowball you because they have a "tight" budget, however you know that their "headline" act will pull 3 times more than you. Sometimes it's because they bring 3 times more people than you, sometimes it's just because they won't come any other way. And that's the final rub. If you say, no... you don't get to play. For some folks this is perfectly fine, but if you're not at that point where you can be selective about opportunities to show your talents to others you cave in and take it. This is exactly why this continues and probably will do so.
Maybe the festivals haven't "gone big" as you state, but there definitely are a small amount that are cashing in on a disproportionate amount of the small pie that already exists.
I know it's a novel, but I want to discuss another point that has been slightly overlooked in this matter. In *many* psychedelic trance events, the alternative stages seem to be considered an afterthought for many event coordinators. There are fewer events that apply equal focus to have all musical stages be just as good as their primary stage. I think this is also part of the issue that was raised.
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Great post, I agree on all points. One more thing, if every artist would insist on being paid for their live acts, party organizers would have no choice but to pay them, lest they prefer having no live acts at all. Would that in turn bring back more dj gigs? I doubt it. The real problem is that in a psy scene there are three kinds of artists, 1, the ones who are established and who indeed cash in and 2. the artists who are not established and lack a certain self esteem and knowledge of what their time is worth, and then there are artists who are not established but have that kind of self esteem, and simply go their own way and isnist on being paid anyway... and if all non established artists were that way there would be no question about getting paid or not! Simnply because no festival organizer will then only book established acts and pay exorbitant sums of money,because they don't have it either... That and I really despise "Do it for the scene"! It is the quintessential sucker speech and whenever someone tells me this I immediately withdraw!
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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chickenshaker
Started Topics :
2
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22
Posted : May 18, 2013 03:24
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I know.. let me clarify - I'm not taking from the fact that he's a producer with a number of releases and has been around the block. Just not on the global radar. |
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harpo maux
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Posted : May 19, 2013 14:49
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hello there isratrancers
I am an official troll bot by mauxuam
it has been a long time...I don't "officially" write on this pages from quite a while since I have been previously officially banned from here by the big boss personally...that's why I use the ancient (and very respectable) mask of a troll..indeed I was the psy-hipster who started this topic (some really clever detective in here  ) and I really didn't expect to come back here after weeks ad find so many truly interesting opinions.
as somebody noticed here english is not my mother language (as it isn't for most of the people who write or read here and the all internet) but I managed to survive for many years living in english speaking countries and got myself successfully understood from waiters at restaurants and on internet so far…the form how you express your opinions is certainly important but not more important than the opinions itself and I personally always do the struggle to try to understand what somebody else's is trying to communicate to me…even if he has some communication skills handicaps and I think that not doing that kind of effort is one of the most commonly spread and accepted forms of racism…even now in the global village.
as much as I like to provoke shitstorms I honestly didn't expect a tornado moving so much dust…does it means that I am such a powerful whistle blower or does it mean that there is so much dust that even a breeze will provoke a sandstorm ? …
many people got seriously offended by my words and opinions…I believe that they just found offensive to look into a mirror…
someone was offended by my fee of 1.000 euro last year …. how many artists you know are communicating to their followers/haters their real fees ?
someone was offended by my absurd request of 2.500 this year …. same as above….as you like…I am free to be mad and do absurd requests well knowing that they will be refused…makes you feel good sometime...
someone was offended by the fact that I wrote that Shpongle fee is 25.000 … I didn't write anywhere in that post on my blog that I think that Shpongle doesn't deserve such a fee…you probably found an implicit offence in it and made a big story about it...(only pleasing your ego who likes Shpongle music soo much and would give them 250.000 if he could).
someone was offended by my obviously provoking wanks when I stated that my gig last year rocked more than OTT (one of my famous enemyes/memes) … many ppl told me that last year in Ozora, many even said that it was the only psychedelic music played at the festival….well…it's like talking about a football match innit ?…entertaining as it gets…it was just a candy to make the post more entertaining.
someone was offended when I admitted that (even if I think that I am a genius and maybe only your grandsons will finally understand it) I get to play in some festivals only because I actually personally know and have some sort of friendship too with some of the people behind the scenes…would have been much smarter to just continue to do that, be part of the circus and keep those few friends instead of pissing them off too ?!?
someone got offended when I stated that OZORA is a commercial festival with capitalistic attitude…while on the other side someone else's did accurate calculations of my real value according to my LIKES on a Facebook page that I open 2 months ago or on the number of followers I have on Soundcloud….very naif… Ozora is moving millions of euros…ask to the population of that village (or to those who live in Castelo Branco) how their lifestyle changed during the last years…do a simple calculation of how many beers or simply liters of water drink 30.000 ppl during a week…without talking of the drugs (those israeli gangsters busted last year had 75.000 euro cash and the festival was just starting)…one of the biggest parts of a festival budget is not the fee of the headliners like Shpongle but the cost of the location of the festival itself and OZORA got that for free since the farmer (who is the main figure cashing in) owns that land…most of the reactions and answers that I got anyway show that most of the so called psy-scene has not surprisingly the same capitalistic attitude of the rest of the realities and that values Facebook LIKES and record sales more than cosmic values…maybe it is time to take off the ficus leaf and start to be honest about it…and in that case those festivals that repeat the same line-up on and on are going to be bankrupt soon or later…unless we agree and admit that psy-trance has become one of those iconic music scenes like Reggae or Heavy Metal where actually sells more the repetition than the innovation…and it has lost any cutting edge attitude…psy or not psy…
I did openly offended only 2 people in that post and funny enough not many tried to defend them…
I offended Gaudi calling him mr. pathetic…and I state it again…I think that playing the same f####ing set every time closing it with Jamming by Bob Marley since more than 15 years it is realistically pathetic…
the only proper offence was for Justin Chaos aka Justo Burges (who is the man organising the main line up of Ozora since last year) calling him one of the dirtiest pigs and a disgusting faker….not many got offended by this and the only one who tried to defend him has been Celli (his best mate/flatmate and in biz with him in a booking agency) who personally came on my Facebook page and wrote some nasty shit…then subdly erased his comments…and then started to personally threat me of physical violence with personal messages.
I explained with details why I can call Justin a pig (and those offended should be only the pigs) and I replied to the personal attacks of Celli in another entertaining post on my blog that some of you might find interesting : http://mauxuam.net/mauxlog/2013/05/who-is-leaching-sorry/
the only point that I was really trying to dig…was…and still is : is it more important and more valuable what an artist actually delivers on stage during his show or the fame and the size of his name on the lineup (and the LIKES on his FB page) and how many ppl will go to the festival because of that…and without being a naif idealistic and talk about artistic or psychelic values…even on a commercial or capitalistic level…I think that not many people actually go to festivals because of the line-ups but more because of how many of their friends are going..or because there is a lake…or because it is in a cheap country…or because is full of sexy girls/boys…or more because they actually can experience for a week some freedom and melt into that thing called "dance floor" of which we all seem to forget about…
I didn't come here to provoke another shitstorm or to continue a saga that honestly made me feel quite sick for a couple of weeks…and I don't want to be too boring and continue to explain the reasons of my suicide bombing at next summer psy-fests lineups…. Freqs of Nature and Ozora are the 2 ends of the same rope and this is why can be easily tied up together and tighter into the same knot….
about being a successful manager in marketing maybe you should read this article published on Forbes not so long ago : http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonnazar/2013/03/19/17-counterintuitive-things-the-most-successful-people-do/
as usual the truth of anything exists only for a very short moment…long as the now when it happens…and not in the history that we will write or read of it.
like Mubali said…I am looking forward for the time when I can dance like if no one look at me…and I will continue to do music since there is nothing I can do about it….even if it is often a poison for my life….
thanks for the attention and the feedback….glad to see that it is still possible to debate.... see you around 
"Liberate yourself from the illusion of culture. Take responsibility for what you think and what you do." McKenna
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IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 19, 2013 20:41
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I don't think you offended anyone, we are just ranting.
But anyway, the things you criticize are things that had been discussed on this forum before ad nauseaum for many years, really nothing new.
It's quite funny you think you caused a shitstorm level 5, there had been far more interesting scandals like Psynina and far better trolls like Jacynth.
Your post just confirmed what was really clear: you have a very big ego. And your music sucks, don't know why anyone cares.
"The dedication to repetition — the search for nirvana in a single held tone or an endlessly cycling rhythm — is one of electronic music's noblest gestures." |
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