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Live acts or Live sets or Live lies or.....something new?
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nEuro
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
1027
Posted : Oct 12, 2007 23:50
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live lies 
  Spread Love.
Boom. |
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Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
23
Posts :
1772
Posted : Oct 12, 2007 23:59
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Depending on the genre and style of the producer(s) and the complexity of his/her/their music, it can be very difficult if not impossible to build tracks from loop based material in ableton, and it's even harder with just one person. Obviously a progressive act would have an easier time playing completely live than an act with tons of complex breaks and fast changes that are harder to do in a live situation. (No disrespect to progressive listeners/producers, just making a point about doing the arrangement live)
I've heard it done before but the music quality generally suffers or isn't much different than the studio tracks.
For me, playing truly live would mean having any sound, loop, break, etc. that i would need, as well as a quick and practical way of arranging them at my hands. For the music that I make, I've tried every way I can think of and every live suggestion from the mess of argument around here about it, but I haven't gotten to that point yet, so live to me is just getting as close as possible to that idea.
You believe in the users?
Yeah, sure. If I don't have a user, then who wrote me? |
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Fragletrollet
Fragletrollet
Started Topics :
111
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1748
Posted : Oct 13, 2007 00:14
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brasirc
IsraTrance Junior Member
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10
Posts :
299
Posted : Oct 13, 2007 07:57
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Live LSD throwing from stage (specially after that loooong build up)...
at least you get the crowds attention...
un-fucking-believable |
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nEuro
Started Topics :
7
Posts :
1027
Posted : Oct 13, 2007 09:33
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-13 07:57, brasirc wrote:
Live LSD throwing from stage (specially after that loooong build up)...
at least you get the crowds attention...
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Spread Love.
Boom. |
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headyatail2000
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
2304
Posted : Oct 13, 2007 12:39
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-12 21:19, Fragletrollet wrote:
personally I never really figured out why people are so hyped up for liveacts. People choose parties out of the artists playing there, so why is the livepart so important? As long as the artist is a good performer, it doesnt mind me whatever way the artist chooses to present his work; as long as it flows with the crowd in his/her way...
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yaa truee but it's promoted as live ((Always in uppercase....)
i guess ppl. do u wanna c teh live word...
but a "live" act with slightly different sound wud be gud nuff 4 me..ans also as every1 sorta agreed that u can't create the same thing all over on the stage..can u? 
<~< "the best things in life aren't things" - art buchwald >~> |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 13, 2007 15:30
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The problem is IMO not mainly with the artists nor the promoters. People want to see a long list of liveacts on the flyers, but they actually don't care if it's live or not.
AP can charge 40 000 SEK for playing a CD because the organizers can sell enough extra tickets by having them featured on the flyer as a live act.
If the party-goers was even remotely concerned with weather it's actually live or not they would already know that 99% of the time it's not.
Personally I'm much more tempted to go to a party that only has 2-3 good DJ's for the night, but it's almost impossible today to make a large event with that kind of lineup because people want a long list of all their favourite acts.
The organizers is providing a service to the party-goers and has to give them what they want unless we are talking small non-commercial underground events.
Personally I don't really do live sets...I DJ with Ableton and can do a lot of messing around with the tracks so they hardly is recognizable and even if it's a lot more live than most live acts I wouldn't like to call it that myself unless I prepare and rehearse a set where I actually control arrangements on the fly.
Making electronic music live is very doable nowadays with a laptop and Ableton...you could pretty much make up music in realtime with the proper preparations.
But considering the amount of work involved I'd have to charge a lot more for that kind of set, and so far organizers don't seem to think it's worth paying a premium for that.
If I was AP and could charge €4000 for a gig I would indeed be ashamed of not making something that I personally feel is worthy of being labeled as live, but in my league I'm happy to get €400.
Spending a couple of weeks preparing for that just doesn't work out for me. And in the end the crowd is happy with the DJ'ing, even when the organizers opt to put "live" on the flyer regardless of what I call it myself.
The organizers want people to come to the party, the people want it to say "live" on the flyer but doesn't seem to care if it really is, and I want to get the booking.
So even if I would ideally only be booked as a DJ or otherwise get properly paid for doing proper live, in my experience everyone is happy in the end even if I'm not to pleased with that it does involve a somewhat dishonest marketing.
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Xolvexs
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
241
Posts :
2848
Posted : Oct 13, 2007 16:06
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hey if you pop some of those magical mystic stuff everything is LIVE
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
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5380
Posted : Oct 13, 2007 16:29
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Good post Spindrift, I agree with much of what you say. However:Quote:
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On 2007-10-13 15:30, Spindrift wrote:
The problem is IMO not mainly with the artists nor the promoters. People want to see a long list of liveacts on the flyers, but they actually don't care if it's live or not. |
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If people don't care, why don't you hardly ever see anyone standing up in interviews or on forums and saying "yes I just press play and dance behind the laptop, sometimes I even touch the laptop but it's only to look at the next part of the set to remind me what's coming up next. People don't care what I do as long as the music's good."? Why would it be embarrassing to say that if people didn't care?
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If the party-goers was even remotely concerned with weather it's actually live or not they would already know that 99% of the time it's not. |
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They are concerned I think, at least many are. But they're told it's 'live', and who are they to insult their favourite artist by suggesting that it's not? People trust promoters and artists to be telling them the truth. Imagine a rock band at, say Reading Festival, where the singer, guitarist, bassist and drummer all fell over and stopped playing but the music carried on - do you think the audience would care or not?
The phrase "hit in the face by a bottle of warm piss" comes to mind.  lol
Just because people don't know if it's live or not doesn't mean they don't care.
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| But considering the amount of work involved I'd have to charge a lot more for that kind of set, and so far organizers don't seem to think it's worth paying a premium for that. |
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Not at all; as you said yourself above, AP get paid what they do because of their draw; it's evidently not because of the iPod. If you want your music to shine above other so that you become as popular on the live circuit as that, then shine... no half measures. Consider the time you spend on it an investment! Sure setting up the first time will be hard work, but each track after that will be easier once you have a routine.
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Dogon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
Posts :
8779
Posted : Oct 13, 2007 16:29
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Jalebee Cartel do amazing live acts; if anyone here has witnessed?
Probably due to they are a group of 5 & can manage different instruments.....
We were born naked & grow up to become wicked. |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1560
Posted : Oct 13, 2007 17:31
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-13 16:29, Colin OOOD wrote:
If people don't care, why don't you hardly ever see anyone standing up in interviews or on forums and saying "yes I just press play and dance behind the laptop, sometimes I even touch the laptop but it's only to look at the next part of the set to remind me what's coming up next. People don't care what I do as long as the music's good."? Why would it be embarrassing to say that if people didn't care? |
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Basically I think people don't mind being lied to.
They know it's not much "live" about the liveact, but they like to simply see the artist in real life and to be able to say "I've seen xx live".
Anyway...I'm just guessing...I don't personally know what the attraction is with live sets and prefer only DJ's.
Maybe it's really the case that people think that most "livesets" actually is live, but my impression is that many people who are aware of that it's usually a sweep or two on top a CD still get hyped up when they see a flyer with a favourite act playing "live" at a party.
As to why artists is not more upfront about it I don't know about that either.
I guess they perceive it as a while lie...promoters is happy and crowd is happy so why not just go along with things?
Personally when I get enquiries from organizers I tell them that a real live will be expensive, but that I can do a DJ set that is very live compared to most acts.
It's usually quite complicated to explain to them and it would be easier for me to just call it live, so I can understand people who rather not complicate things and risk loosing bookings that way.
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Not at all; as you said yourself above, AP get paid what they do because of their draw; it's evidently not because of the iPod. If you want your music to shine above other so that you become as popular on the live circuit as that, then shine... no half measures. Consider the time you spend on it an investment! Sure setting up the first time will be hard work, but each track after that will be easier once you have a routine.
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Sure...I agree.
As to my excuse why I haven't done that:
I'm glad to get 2-3 bookings per year and is very busy with other things than music, but if I had the spare time I would no doubt prepare a proper live set.
I'm not so sure I would get more bookings from it and I seriously doubt that I could make it financially viable...but it would be good fun.
As it is now I think my sets is quite good as they are, and even if they are not really what I would call "live" I do indeed do plenty of real time manipulation so it's still far from a iPod/CD act.
If I felt what I provided was not good as it is and didn't live up to the crowds expectations I would either say no to bookings or make the needed preparations.
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The Journey Man Project
Inactive User
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
931
Posted : Oct 14, 2007 07:47
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I always thought that a musician wants to be challenged and to tackle these challenges!? so wouldn't building a real live set be a challenge that would result in much more recognition and skill?
I just don't understand at all how producers can sit back all day and make excuses for not doing "real" live acts... it's like the bloke at work who does the basic requirements to meet his contract, but never bothers to put in any effort to improve himself or the companies future... and in the end he gets fired... but in this scene we just seem to sit back and take the whining excuse of "oh it's to hard so fuck you punters, but buy our cd's and pay your money to see us shake our ass on stage and take drugs and drink ourselves stupid with that money YOU paid us for a fake live set"
heck at least when I saw Aphex Twin live he was actually builingit live on laptop (I got to see the video footage afterwards... and it's mch more intersting to hear live music and watchi somebody fiddle with the knobs than see a wanker danc eon stage... I can see 500+ other people dancing around me!
just stop using the term live, coz it isn't.. just list the artist name and nothing else unless they use the decks... stop lying to the punters! |
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The Journey Man Project
Inactive User
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
931
Posted : Oct 14, 2007 07:58
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Quote:
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On 2007-10-12 16:49, Elad wrote:
u have the easy way offcourse , like play keyboard or guitar or any instrument , thats live
with electronic music tho its not a must and there are other ways to apply changes on tracks , like mixing seperate loops from all tracks into one big story , use alot of effects , have control over each channel , play your main synth line with midi to synth and cancel the automation and use ur hands.. so u can realy be creative and not just wait till the playback is over while u jump and smile
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Playing a guiatr live is not easy mate. I played in a quite a few heavy metal bands. First you have to lug around your amps, guit, leads and pedals... then you have to have the timing perfect with a bass guitarist and drummer and vocalist... on tope of that you have to have sound engineer to mix it together and work out the levels ot make it sound good on the system... from what I"ve played with Ableton, it's alot easier to use than a live guitar. |
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Ellon
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
56
Posts :
1223
Posted : Oct 14, 2007 20:41
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There is no rule regarding the "live-act" performance (maybe not a good term...) except you should be creating something in the moment with the tool of your choice...
A lot a people is saying "...well i dont care as long as the music rocks and makes me jump etc..." - for me thats total inconceivable!!!! When you go to see a concert, the "technical performance" doesnt matter?????? For me a live-act is a concert, with an artist, playing his/hers music. Seing it how its done live its a big part of the live concept, whether is trance, rock, jazz, you name it....
How you choose to re-create your music live is up to each, but have some active participation in the act or else its just for nothing...calling it a live-act.
Maybe the new festival/party formats-6 "live acts" in one day-doesnt help....keep it short give more responsability to the artist, make him more visible...instead of just one more!!!!
LoveandLight to alll |
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RK9
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
21
Posts :
210
Posted : Mar 3, 2009 11:22
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Usually when I see "live" on a flier, i translate that in my head to "all original material". It's more important that they are playing new, exclusive unreleased material that THEY made than that they're playing live as opposed to a dj set.
Plus, since live sets are produced together, they can flow more easily than a DJ set, and it's easier to do tempo changes or fuck with phrasing and still have it flow.
It's not impossible to do complicated weird beat stuff in a live PA, if you have something like an EFX-1000 -- watch youtube videos of people who know how to use one of those and they can do all kinds of trippy stuff with the loop feature. |
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