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Karma !
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Allegoric - Psynce
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 24, 2009 20:36:08
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we all talk about karma coming to us again from the actions we do to others..
we all know and have felt the power of doing good and getting good in return with no intentions of getting good from it......
but what i really want to discuss something here is that
is Karma confined to only actions done to a human being...
or it includes animals also... ?
ofcourse most of the people love their pets and consider them as a part of their family and try to give best to themm...
but what about other animals... ?
will our bad actions to animals (killing,torchering directly/indirectly) count as a bad karma or not ?
  Truth will always guard our souls......
http://www.myspace.com/allegoricpsynce |
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Gunter
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 24, 2009 21:20
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Don`t think too much. Just be good. |
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MuckyPuh
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
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86
Posted : Nov 24, 2009 23:24
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On 2009-11-24 21:20, Gunter wrote:
Don`t think too much. Just be good.
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what kind of a answer is this to a very good question???
sorry for flaming – but when you have nothing to say to this topic … then its proably not the thread to write anything – isnt it??
not thinking to much may work for you – but there are others who wanna think and talk about stuff – and you should respect that.
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well in my opinion there are are two kinds of karma -
the personal karma - and the collective karma.
There is no need to explain personal karma
– but collective karma ….imo ...is the kind of karma you get as a group of people.
For example in times when women where burned because the people thought they where witches. Those who burned the wimen got a lot of bad personal karma. But all the other people who didnt hurt anyone but stud there and did nothing – (and also wanted the “witches” to get burned) sure received bad karma as a collective.
As well as in germany in times of the 2nd world war. There where people who executed, and there where people who thought it was right to execute. Even If they didnt hurt anyone they fully supportet it... so have those people loaded themself with bad karma??? I bet they have!!
and with animals its the same - there are people executing and there are people who thing its right to execute...
if you dont hurt animals because you could never do harm to an other beeing - but in the same way you pay other people to hurt them for you – you sure receive bad karma imo!! Maybe not in a personal way – but as a collective for sure!
i also think it depends on how councious you are about it ...
if you have been raised eating animals - and you never have seen a meatrix – you never have heard of factory farming - and you belive that the cow on the milk tetrapack is realy living there in those grasslands as the picture tells you....and you realy think the cow is having a happy fulfilled life …. well then you proabably wont get so much bad karma – I guess....
but if you are concious about the (killing, torchering-) and you know what is happening – but you just dont wanna change your way of living – and you can block those informations from your mind... well then I guess you will receive much more ,,,
http://www.muckymusic.blogspot.de/
http://soundcloud.com/muckypuh-muckymusic |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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1931
Posted : Nov 25, 2009 00:08
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Quote:
| For example in times when women where burned because the people thought they where witches. Those who burned the wimen got a lot of bad personal karma. But all the other people who didnt hurt anyone but stud there and did nothing – (and also wanted the “witches” to get burned) sure received bad karma as a collective.
As well as in germany in times of the 2nd world war. There where people who executed, and there where people who thought it was right to execute. Even If they didnt hurt anyone they fully supportet it... so have those people loaded themself with bad karma??? I bet they have!! |
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very wisely said.
fully agree.
actually my idea of karma is truely scientifically backgrounded. i just dont see a logical fact that suggests even slightly that karma does not exist. the world is a mirror and is based on cause and effect. in every field of science i see only facts that prove the existence of karmic laws in the universe.
and if you just take the example with the witches. imagine there was one person in the crowd of observers who stood up and shouted at the others, even if they were brothers and sisters, that it is no justice to kill the witches . then the rest certainly considered this person for a bad person doing bad things . but as a matter of fact the person had good intentions and collected good karma. karma is just delayed in time. it doesnt come immediately. so the person who stood up against the inquistion was first totally negatively treated by the society of those days but will according to my view collect good karma afterwars, delayed in time.
i am thinking about karma a lot these days. about life and death. because i am now with a family member who is not gonna live much more days and he is gonna die soon because of a bad illness that is very painful to him. and i am asking myself day and night what is the karma that caused this. was there any. there must have been. and i see his last days and how he truely understands the things he did in his life and he is now (because of this pain) finally realizing that there is more to reality than the material view of life . that there is a creator or a creative energy that is more powerful than any of our material brains will ever be. so finally because of this illness and pain he realizes what he missed to realize in 60 years.
it is just strange because once more i realized so much about how complicated the world is and how present the meaning of karma and cause and effect is. i truely believe that there is karma and an energy that knows more about our true intentions than any of the 6 milliard humans on earth. there were times when i felt totally alone in an empty worlds of people who wanna destroy me and they really did want this and still i never gave up just because i believe that my intentions were written in the book of karma and earlier or later it will turn to the good. because i never intended to hurt anyone and i hope that the power of karma remembers everything in our lifes. every thought that we had. this is actually what keeps me still alive. otherwise i would have taken my life till now. it is just the love in the heart, even if is a smallest light in an empty world. because i know that there is karma and a mirror where i will see this light back earlier or later. and if it is written in the book of karma that i will not see it in this lifetime, then i still believe that i will see it in the next.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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1931
Posted : Nov 25, 2009 00:53
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Nov 25, 2009 01:31
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Sometimes you dont want to believe in karma, but its for sure something to ponder, and if you are sorry for your bad deeds its a good thing, you should be! and you will probably torture your self for it, in this case karma has a way of dealing with things in a internal way!
I think doing too many bad deeds will drive a person crazy/mad and it will become a viscous cycle and breaking it will resolve in great pain, thats why lots of people remain in this bad cycle and are afraid of breaking it.
If you never break it completely you will be haunted with the pain you create!
The real answer is stop creating the pain for your self and others! And take the great pain of the bad things you have done and start living a better more positive life...
Hurting animals is a very bad thing! Its a sign that something is wrong mentally! Lots of people hurt both animals and humans and are so full of regret that sometimes they end their own lifes cause of this great pain they cause!
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RaDioAcTiVe AcIdHeAd
Started Topics :
2
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443
Posted : Nov 25, 2009 05:04
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ofcourse there is karma... with humans and with animals too... Every lifetime u usually collect the good or bad karmic energies and it sometimes shows in the next lifetime or sometimes in the same lifetime... eitherways everything has to be balanced out sometime/somehow or the other...
and i feel u shudnt segregate humans and animals into 2 different categories... we are all the same... attached to the same cosmic grid and life force... not just animals... its everything... all the stuff around us...
And its true abt personal and collective karma too (direct/indirect) as mentioned above... your thoughts and intentions also matter very much...
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Allegoric - Psynce
IsraTrance Full Member
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61
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1453
Posted : Nov 25, 2009 07:01
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wooww thanx for so many great replies.. now i know i am not the only one who thinks like that
really got me thinking even more...
we are also animals but just fake animals who somehow evolved and took least care of co-species...
Truth will always guard our souls......
http://www.myspace.com/allegoricpsynce |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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Posted : Nov 25, 2009 07:23
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We fucked our animals big time! Betrayal!
The meat Industry Is quite alarming how they treat animals! All cause of profit!
And really we have Betrayed our self´s aswell! But We can do something to change this, its not too late!
If there is a will there is a way.. Some ways more difficult than others, just that.
"A buddha is someone who finds freedom in good fortune and bad. Such is his power that karma can't hold him. No matter what kind of karma, a buddha transforms it. Heaven and hell are nothing to him. But the awareness of a mortal is dim compared to that of a buddha, who penetrates everything, inside and out."
This attracts me very much right now, maybe im on my way to become a Buddhist! hehe
http://www.dharmamemphis.com/buddhism/path_to_become_a_buddha.htm
Further on this animal killing industry, i think if you want to eat meat you should kill it your self and you grieve for it also! Maybe in the perfect world we dont need meat! But if this Eco system wasnt built like it is we would be overpopulated sooner or later.. dont you think? maybe nature would take care of it with disease´s
and evolution would change some terms. But i am yet not convinced with this idea that we dont need meat and that some animals dont either.
"In much of the world, humans are the largest, best-organized, most cunning, and most powerful predators. The closest rival to humans in those characteristics in most of the world, the dog, is far more likely a collaborator than a competitor or a menace.
Humans are omnivorous and clever exploiters of tools from snares, clubs, spears, fishing gear, firearms to boats and motor vehicles in hunting other animals. Humans even use other animals (dogs, cormorants, and falcons) in hunting or fishing and such non-predatory animals as horses, camels, and elephants in getting approaches to prey.
Humans have reshaped huge expanses of the world as ranges and farms for the raising of livestock, poultry, and fish to be eaten as meat."
I think its important that we see our selfs as animals aswell and dont detach our self from nature too much, we are a part of it and we co-exist with all beings, we have a choice to live a good life without too much regret if we just stop killing in advance, meaning that we cant really calculate a demand for meat, its best that we become our own hunters and farmers.. i think its more fair, and also maybe people would not eat so much meat cause they can grow more vegetables.
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Gunter
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
55
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1465
Posted : Nov 25, 2009 09:20
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On 2009-11-24 23:24, gizmobaggins wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-11-24 21:20, Gunter wrote:
Don`t think too much. Just be good.
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what kind of a answer is this to a very good question???
sorry for flaming – but when you have nothing to say to this topic … then its proably not the thread to write anything – isnt it??
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That`s just exactly, what I have to say to this. Why don`t you just respect it. I respect the question, I respect your opinion, so please respect mine too.
My way of life is more based on action, then on thinking. I just try to be good in life. Seen from that point of view, I don`t have to think about karma. Karma for me is nothing that has to be thought about. It´s something that has to be practised.
Since this works for me, I gave this advice.
Please respect other people`s thoughts, if they are not hurting anybody (especially in the spirituality section!). Thank you. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Nov 25, 2009 09:41
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On 2009-11-25 09:20, Gunter wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-11-24 23:24, gizmobaggins wrote:
Quote:
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On 2009-11-24 21:20, Gunter wrote:
Don`t think too much. Just be good.
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what kind of a answer is this to a very good question???
sorry for flaming – but when you have nothing to say to this topic … then its proably not the thread to write anything – isnt it??
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That`s just exactly, what I have to say to this. Why don`t you just respect it. I respect the question, I respect your opinion, so please respect mine too.
My way of life is more based on action, then on thinking. I just try to be good in life. Seen from that point of view, I don`t have to think about karma. Karma for me is nothing that has to be thought about. It´s something that has to be practised.
Since this works for me, I gave this advice.
Please respect other people`s thoughts, if they are not hurting anybody (especially in the spirituality section!). Thank you.
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I thought your advice was the best one!
Still i love to talk some bullshit now and then!
I bet even you have thoughts, how far you go with them is another question, i can go miles with mine sometimes...
I would in fact call it a bad habit!
Too much time inside the mind will make you go a little nuts...
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Gunter
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
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1465
Posted : Nov 25, 2009 09:46
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True true |
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Uedi
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
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288
Posted : Nov 26, 2009 00:07
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Every tiny action generates a reaction, an effect.
Even thoughts are action creators...
To create good karma, I think we should love, respect life and nature in all it's forms (even small insects and bugs)... Be truth, open hearted...
To live Life with the heart, and not the mind... bla bla bla.
It looks easy but it's not 
There's always the Ego and the mind behind all things.
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Nov 26, 2009 03:36
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Quote:
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On 2009-11-26 00:07, Uedi wrote:
Every tiny action generates a reaction, an effect.
Even thoughts are action creators...
To create good karma, I think we should love, respect life and nature in all it's forms (even small insects and bugs)... Be truth, open hearted...
To live Life with the heart, and not the mind... bla bla bla.
It looks easy but it's not
There's always the Ego and the mind behind all things.
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But Ego and Mind are tools! we must learn to use them for good things...
And to be honest a little ego is not that bad, as long as you are humble!
Life is a strange journey! and i dont think that we should believe too much that our thoughts generate exactly what they are about
It can drive a person insane to believe such things. You have to leave the mind when its like that... the mind is like space, all kind of chaos happen there and you cant trust it all to be real... just get out of your mind if you can... try and visualize your self as a spectator of your mind, with the ability to come and go, its only when you really dwell there long enough and start some sort of communication that you get locked up! and leaving is the only solution...
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Nov 26, 2009 04:39
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On 2009-11-25 01:31, Freeflow wrote:
Sometimes you dont want to believe in karma, but its for sure something to ponder, and if you are sorry for your bad deeds its a good thing, you should be! and you will probably torture your self for it, in this case karma has a way of dealing with things in a internal way!
I think doing too many bad deeds will drive a person crazy/mad and it will become a viscous cycle and breaking it will resolve in great pain, thats why lots of people remain in this bad cycle and are afraid of breaking it.
If you never break it completely you will be haunted with the pain you create!
The real answer is stop creating the pain for your self and others! And take the great pain of the bad things you have done and start living a better more positive life...
Hurting animals is a very bad thing! Its a sign that something is wrong mentally! Lots of people hurt both animals and humans and are so full of regret that sometimes they end their own lifes cause of this great pain they cause!
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the paradox is that the most evil people dont regret their deeds. so there is no inner reaction or internal way of dealing with bad karma for them.
or at least this is my experience - simple example:
you take one person that is very violent to others. he feels okey doing this, for instance lots of strong males feel like it is their right and duty to be violent to disobeying women. i know such people and even after they have been told by many others that it is a bad thing to use violence, they continue thinking that it is okey. it is like the inquisitors - most of them truely believed that it is okey to burn the wise women. you see, there is no regret in their mind.
and other people on the contrary have so strong internal advisors that they feel quilty after the smallest mistake. they develop self destructive internal way of dealing with it. at the end they end up with cancer or whatever it is.
so. what i tried to say is that there are not always internal reactions on bad deeds that can be considered an autosuggestive mind which punishes itself. on the contrary - the more bad things you do, the less guilty you feel. this is why you do it, there is no internal advisor in your heart to tell you that it is a bad thing to do so.
i believe, that if the theory if karma is truely the basic principle of the universe as we know it, then there must be a mirror universe OUTSIDE of us, an energy that is beyond ourselfs, stronger and much more ultimate than we are, a cosmic energy that would be responsible for a reaction in the social environment around us. a cosmic justice that would bring a chain reaction of events and coinscidences.
...the internal feeling of being guilty would not be enough.....cause it is simply not present.
i think that one can gather good karma if he or she just follows the cosmic signs and acts according to them. sometimes it is needed to do something bad in order to do something good, it is the idea of being robin hood saving the poor and punishing the rich. something like that. in this case you will have to think before you consider doing good. to think what is good and what is bad. to distinguish between them. it is the hardest thing of all. one has to follow the cosmic signs in order to know what to do. and probaly there is a lot of wisdom in the idea that you should never do anything to others that you dont want to be done to you. in order to do this - the simplest way is to alwys imagine that the others are you. so this esoteric idea is actually only a logical way to come to a conclusion what is a good deed and what is good for yourself.
whatever. i actually wanted to go away from the forum but again i started to miss some of you dears. few. so this is why i needed a small break to see you shortly for a while. this film above, both of them you can find them on youtube. especially the first one is very philosophical about karma.
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