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Kali the Dark Goddess
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phazed
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
26
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1642
Posted : Dec 19, 2008 14:50
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[quote]
On 2008-12-19 13:22, shahar wrote:
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So, I suggest we talk about our interpretations and views instead of how things are or how others see them. That is much more humble and close to the truth. It will also save a lot of aggravation and hurting others' feelings and enable us to actually learn something from each other.
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This is the only thing that makes sense to me.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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38
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1931
Posted : Dec 19, 2008 15:52
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but this is what we all do arent we. our interpretation. this is the meaning of human interraction. different interpretations to enrich your view. it would be so boring if we all viewd it the same way. so we search for human to see their interpretations. and even if we argue, it is an enrichment to see what the others view.
religions are too relative.
so everyone is just his own persective, even if he doesnt express it so directly....everything a person says is relative. okey i am convinced that kali is dark, you might be convinced that she is pink, and the other guy might be convinced that she has no colour at all. and at the end of the day religion cannot be made objective, they are just a subjective perspective. that is why i slowly slowly move away from them. no sense. it is just an opinion. you cant proove anything. you can only quarrel. fight wars. this is all. i just had one asking, and even one asking is too much. i asked that they stop accusing me for calling her dark. i am all the time explaining why i see her as dark, why i have read it absolutely everywhere in the languages i know. not to put my ideas over them, but just to have the freedom to see her as dark. anyway. religions exhaust. a lot. i dont like them anymore. science is more appealing to me.
except the sexual part but anyway the internet is not the place to talk about sex anyway.
is there a faster way to open this part of the forum, i have to go everytime to the topic of ocelot.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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1931
Posted : Dec 19, 2008 15:58
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On 2008-12-19 14:47, Fria Tantrumm wrote:
Oh I also wanted to add, Tina if you get something out of your Tantrik practices then that is all that really matters. The mind is a powerfull thing, and as long as you feel it benefits you in some way then that is all that is important, irrelevant of whether it's real or amateur, American or Indian. It works for you and that's sooper.
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well actually i am not sure what to think. that is why i am sitting here. i had some very negative experiences from this tantrik ritual in a remote way, with the objects. sure i cant say anything in a forum, i would prefer to tell you that personally 4 eyes and i cant speak about everything here, it is still an esoteric knowledge.....but some things really confuse me. i dont know. i know so little about everything.
and you know, even the story about kulbha mela that i wrote is a fictional one with purpose. it happened much more than that but i am surely not allowed to talk about it anywhere. some things are really a secret, not meant for anyone.
but as i said, i am not sure what i take from tantra. and if i take what i should.
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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1931
Posted : Dec 19, 2008 18:31
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| Tantra firstly should not be attempted without a teacher....a teacher to guide and control one, as it is the weakness of all humans to lack control....thus Tantra incorporates years of Yoga, Guru Diksha (acting like a servant for your Guru), Bhakti yoga and saadhna...this is alot of preparation to make the body and mind focused and strong. Many famous Tantriks skipped the enitre sexual part actually, as Ramakrishna - a great Tantrik, but it is a trend of the West, to harp on the sexual aspect of Tantra...Once again..you must have studied and practiced many other disciplines for many years before you attempt Yoni Tantra..your entire lifestyle must continuously be dedicated to this one endeavour...Merely opening a book, reading some stuff and then practicing is just not the REAL stuff. |
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yeah okey. this one i did not read at the beginning.
so you first told me in the goa gil topic that the whole problem with the commercializing of your religion is that people like me come to india and want to get the knowledge in a tradition from a teacher. now you say i cant do anything without a teacher, so what is it at the end. do i need to come to see a teacher or not. you know. i mean, i either come to the tradition and learn (+and commercialize as you said) or i dont come and practise alone. yes we have a lot of commercial tantra here, i can get initiated for 2000 euro per weekend, you know. of course it is not the real thing. i mean i know it perfectly too.
but anyway our christian religion is so anti sexual that you cant even imagine. we dont have any tantric exercises. for lots of centuries for us it was even a dirty act to make love and to make children. you know, it was a dirty antireligious thing. i never said that in india there is hell, dont know why and how you come to that idea. i talk about here. here there is hell and you go to hell if you wanna make love. it is very drastic. and it is normal for many of us to seek other ways. cause our religion is a bullshit. not that other religions are the big thing but they are better than this one. the apple. adam and the evil.
i used to study hinduism and greek philosophy 10 years ago with 18 too. done it 2 years and then i left it. cause i knew that i have to go to india and see what is on there. and if you think i just came to trip and to have a nice vacation in goa, you are wrong. first because it was very very hard for me at that time to afford to go there at all, and second because i went straight to kumbha mela. anyway. i know you have a problem that i have been there. and as you said it is also totally disrespectful to have been there with sun glasses. dont care. it was the last time i went , i think. if someone educates me at al, it will be a woman.
to shahar : yes, you continue to repeat one and the same thing you know. i told you, just ban me here. if you are so sure that i am the one who starts first in eery topic, then why dont you just do it. i can live without a forum too. if you are so sure how negative i am and how wrong, why dont you just ban me.
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AumShantiAum
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
27
Posts :
911
Posted : Dec 19, 2008 21:49
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On 2008-12-18 19:48, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
yes but that is why i say she is dark. she is the dark shakti of shiva. shiva has many shaktis but kali belongs to the dark ones. cause to me the idea to sacrifice the animals and have a real bloody bath is a dark ritual.isnt it a dark ritual for you? the bloody bath that you witness on this ritual is a dark thing. it is tausands of animals and their blood.
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Again you fail to see that you are interpreting the ritual from your own cultural context. You are an outsider observing all this and drawing your own conclusions and creating your own belief system. But your view is just that, your view. And no real Hindu would accept your view. There is nothing dark about animal sacrifices, why can you not understand this. They are apart of MANY people's beliefs all over the world. |
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Fria Tantrumm
Started Topics :
5
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368
Posted : Dec 19, 2008 22:38
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Tina....to master any discipline one needs a teacher. The problem arises when people come on a 3 month stint, try to find a "guru"...obviously no serious guru wants a 3 month pupil...thus you'll usually find fakes...
Guru's train their disciples from childhood...In tantra especially, children were chosen by the Guru's and take away to monastaries to learn these traditions. A person just doesn't land up and say "Hey, this sounds so cool, I want a guru for 4 months, then I'll go back home and read some books and come back every year for 4 months for training from the Guru." One would take years to learn any discipline in this manner.
I don't understand why you think I have a problem with you being to the Kumbha..I find it funny that you think I find it offensive. It is not the point at all, and i haven't even mentioned anything that could give you reason to feel this way. It's a great experience and I am honestly glad you had a chance.
Yoni Tantra is not about sex, and it does not advocate open sex or sexual freedom in any manner. It is only one side of Tantra. The Right Hand path of Tantra is the opposite, extremely puritan and anti sex.....so this sexual portion is not really part of the Hindu religion. It is but a small portion of one kind of Tantra.
If you are serious about learning about these things, give up everything and come and live in an Ashram for a few years. Work for the Ashram, learn from the Ashram, live in the Ashram and you can study all of this under the guidance of a Guru. If you just want some light information on the religion and Tantra then read some books.... forget the boom smoking chillum portion and get books by Arthur Avalon, John Woodroffe, Georg Feuerstein. These are well educated Authors, with Woodroffe even translating the entire Mahanirvana Tantra.
http://www.sacred-texts.com/tantra/maha/
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Fractal Cowboys : Post Singularity COMING SOON :)
Orestis : Recursice Consciousness OUT
Psykovsky: Na Ve Ka is OUT! |
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full_lotus
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
562
Posted : Dec 20, 2008 01:38
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
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4444
Posted : Dec 20, 2008 08:28
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moki , where did u see this animal sacrifice thing ? what part of india , details pls ..
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
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4444
Posted : Dec 20, 2008 08:31
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ok i googled , apparently in nepal its common practice but nothing about india but this : http://www.visakhaspca.org/issues/sacrifice.php .. a pup  .. fukin hell , barbaric cunts , fuck religion , fuck kali , fuck the bhakts .. no good human does that , fuck religion .. anyway , moki , details please , im going to follow up and see if i can do somethn about it ..
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shahar
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
155
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2035
Posted : Dec 20, 2008 09:07
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On 2008-12-19 18:31, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
to shahar : yes, you continue to repeat one and the same thing you know. i told you, just ban me here. if you are so sure that i am the one who starts first in eery topic, then why dont you just do it. i can live without a forum too. if you are so sure how negative i am and how wrong, why dont you just ban me.
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I merely offered you an advice from my own experience, regarding a question you've asked. Why do you get so worked up?
Did you try it, btw?
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"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
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Dogon
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
50
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8779
Posted : Dec 20, 2008 16:04
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very spiritual vibe here 
We were born naked & grow up to become wicked. |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
Posts :
1931
Posted : Dec 20, 2008 19:07
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mk47 , i cant write anything about this ritual. but i thought that you guys from india know about it too. since you are there and i am not.....
i cant write any details about it. and i dont even know if i am at all allowed to write here in isratrance anything else from the knowledge i got from india. esoteric still means secret.....
but as i said i have some objects from there that have been given to me by a highly initiated naga baba. the problem is that i dont see the naga baba any more, i just have the objects, and he told me i should never ever lose them, and it is extremely bad to lose them, but i should protect them for ever.....
fria, yes, actually i dont have a problem with the years of learning. i would do it immediately if i had the chance but i dont have. i have to stay in the cold european winter far away from the palms and the chillums, in a small dark room all inbetween of the biggest commerce and can only dream of being nearer to the traditions, to the nagas and to the south. it will not happen soon. and besides i noticed that india itself is abit degradated because many gurus on the kumbha mela only needed europeans in order to have more money for their ashrams. they dont ask you what your true intentions are, what is your previous knowledge, they just offer you initiation for so and so dollars. my friend from that time, who had quite well paid job, was the first in the lists so to say. i dont have money in this reincarnation, dont even wanna have them, so i guess i am not in the list of any guru wanting disciples. so i will be my own guru for now.
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| this sexual portion is not really part of the Hindu religion. |
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well but you cant deny that you see sexual scenes in many temples there. and the art how to make love comes from india too. and to me as a christian ( to be exact i am not a christian , i officialy stepped out of the church and dont pay taxes) , but to me as grown in europe, it is simply striking to see the penis of god in a temple. if they put a penis of jesus in the church here i dont need to tell you what will happen. well, anyway it is more sexual than what other religions have. that is one of the reasons i really love india.
and nada brahma, the world is a frequency. the other reason.
anyway, thanks a lot for the link, i will read. 
i just left a 6 year old relationship some weeks ago so i am in a phase that is good to excersice solibacy, although i am doing exactly the opposite right now but i will exersice now a bit more. i spend the whole day alone anyway so.....i have time to think about many things right now. i would love to be in india now. but i cant. btw do you know this film about yamuna giri, the german sattvi. she is a friend of mine, i was talking about her in another topic, she is absolutely great. but she is on the black list of the indian government. she cannot come. it is a pity thing. the fundamentalism of the indian government....and police....
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mk47
Inactive User
Started Topics :
118
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4444
Posted : Dec 20, 2008 21:03
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moki , you have spoken in great detail about a whole lot of things .. and now you have a problem to answer ? i am not being condescending or aggressive or anything of the sort , please tell me about this ritual , im very interested to know .. i want details about what you saw , not any deep meaning that may lie within it or any of the heavy stuff , but i reaally really want to know where u witnessed this animal sacrifice thing and what animals were being slaughtered .. also i have never claimed to know more or better or anything of the sort in all my conversation with you , so no need to be defensive here .. now please tell me about this ritual
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V3NOM
Inactive User
Started Topics :
131
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2234
Posted : Dec 21, 2008 13:47
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I remember in a town called Pokara (may have spelt it wrong) in Nepal in 1999 I saw ag oat sacrificed alive. Two men held it from either end and another cut it's head off and they collected the blood to make a soup.
It has stayed with me ever since, and while I knew it was not my place as a foreigner to make a scene, I have always been deeply disturbed since this.
I do not judge the country or culture as whole on this, moste of the Nepalese I met were very nice and calm people, and I never saw any of this in India.
I can see it being practised in small rural areas but doubt it would happen in any tourist hot spots or major cities.
An animal sacrifice is pretty intense and I don't think it should be stated that one was witnessed
unless it truly was.
A date and a place wouldn't hurt, you don;t have to give names of those involved.
anways, interesting things here, have started reading up on a few areas that were mentioned that interest me
I think Shahar made some very important comments abotu standing on the outside of a culture and relgion and looking in, andmaking assumptions.
please continues in peace
I hate you, you hate me, we are all so hap hap happy! |
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moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
38
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Posted : Dec 21, 2008 14:39
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mk. i actually have not spoken in detail about any secret knowledge yet, i dont go beyond the public books and knowledge.
if you wanna know more about kali as a dark goddess, you should go to kalkutta. there you can find a public ritual where animals are sacrificed. you have to search for kalighat in google, i dont have the time to search right now. it is not the place that i was talking about but it is a nice start and it is an open public information.
as you know the vedas actually come from the ariers from the north, they were written after the ariers invaded india. hope you know this at least. the sacrifice rituals and the soma rituals actually come from the arier.
now, i dont have a problem to talk about details, i just have a problem with the idea that an indian apriori knows more about this religion than others. i think this is a quite stupid notion. it is disrespectful and quite unpleasant fundamental reaction with a herd approach.
now, to fria, well fria, you say you dont know why i think you have a problem that i was at the kumbha mela. well this is what you first told me as i started to wrte in this forum. and many others from the herd followed exactly you. in the goa gil topic, you assume i am the one to commercialize your culture. well yes, this does hurt me, if you are not aware. cause i really love india. think ybout what you said here: http://forum.isratrance.com/why-goa-gil/page5/
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