pete
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Aug 13, 2007 19:51
Quote:
Anyway I think's fun and still important to touch people emotionally with music. To create this kind of music no doubt requires the composer to have been emotionally touched in some way and ultimately transfers to the listener. Some form of empathic communications. Generally it seems that the more abstract musics which includes "darkpsy has limited strengths in this area. There might even be an unsaid dictum: "Eschew Sentimentality, Expand concepts of music". This is basically the same approach as many modern orchestral compositions.
I defitely hear that, but I think there's a third option beyond the dichotomy of sentimentality/expand concepts of music, which is music that focuses on percussion and power...obviously a lot of contemporary psytrance, esp in the higher bpm ranges fits this bill, and I really like that style, at least when it has a wide variety of interesting noises and good production value. But perhaps a less controversial example of something people like that doesn't fit into the sentimentality/expand concept dichotomy would be a good ol drum circle.
I guess my point is I've gone deep into transcendental states, feeling on fire with the joy of existence manifested through loony dancing while music was playing that did not touch me emotionally at all, but rather got me fired up to freak out on the dancefloor, and that experience itself was emotional. At the same time, I don't think the creators of those tracks were primarily going for an intellectual expansion of what I considered music.
As far as the overall idea of psytrance/jam band fusion goes, I view it as a regression, and based on my observations of psytrance parties and jam band events I think it would make the vibe and crowds at parties way less cool. Maybe I'm just an asshole though.
That said, I'm totally interested in the new Younger Brother stuff, and agree with Karmakanik's thoughts, but I don't view it in any connection with psytrance parties. It could be a great concert experience, and great music, but that's all imho.
ps-sorry I didn't say hello at aum, dean...didn't even see you til monday morning, and I was damn tuckered out at that point. I hope there's an escape from planet buddha soon tho
vector_0
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Posted : Aug 14, 2007 03:00
Quote:
On 2007-08-07 19:02, ocelot wrote:
eh- its popular with the masses...
"real" music has always been more popular with the masses... thats why skazi plays the geeeetar. hee haw!
is this jam-band + worldmusic/"psy" chillout fusion really a revolutionary move?
ummm nope. been there. done that. about 15 years ago like it was pointed out...
to be honest the 70's stuff was more experimental...
at the point Phish became the heirs to the Grateful Dead legacy i would say the mix of bluegrass, jazz, and rock-n-roll had been played out already...
thousands of fans obviously disagree with me but i remember when YES and Captain Beefheart were the cutting edge of art rock so maybe im just jaded...
i think psytrance scenesters sometimes have moments when they realize our extreme isolation, then they go about trying to build bridges and make everyone feel fuzzy and nice...
i didnt get into this stuff (psytrance)for comfort music... i prefer abstract jazz to most rock and roll and all country... i guess i dont see anything futuristic about simon posford, shpongle, or jam bands...
but i respect "real" musicians... who can play what they hear in their head-
all the good ones end up in jazz-fusion or classical it seems... rock-n-roll is too simple and stupid for a real musician it seems... (3 chord rehash of blues without the soul)
this electronic dance music is something else...
and watering it down to make some "live action" for morons to stare at, well... not into it...
I'm feeling this statement. I think that video kinda sucked....it sounded really uninspired; like it was purposefully simplified for the sake of live performance (novelty)
the dog of tears
the dog of tears
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Posted : Aug 14, 2007 07:37
good psychedelic bands that aren't psy trance:
Can
Coil
Nurse With Wound
Muslimgauze
Download
Swans
The Legendary Pink Dots
Tear Garden
Faust
Neu!
There are many more but start with those. Can puts Phish/Dead/Floyd/String Cheese/et al all to shame.
mono mono
Onnomon
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Posted : Aug 14, 2007 21:12
[quote]
On 2007-08-13 19:51, pete wrote:
Quote:
ps-sorry I didn't say hello at aum, dean...didn't even see you til monday morning, and I was damn tuckered out at that point. I hope there's an escape from planet buddha soon tho
damn! that was you at AUM!
I think by virtue of using more conventional (aka "traditional") musical devices you're encoding a very large weight of music/human history into the music. By this virtue I believe the emotional response (we're talking blade runner stuff here) can come in a huge variety of forms. Not only that, because these forms are programmed from an early age I think our retention of these forms is more sensitived. By these same virtues but in a negating sense (i.e. lack of conventional musical forms) I believe that the disconnect from tradition is a significant factor in what many of us percieve as "psychedelic". This is because it becomes more difficult to comprehend the compositional, or more precisely the thematic patterns of an abstract trance track. Some form of limited confusion to the listener. Also by this virtue it maeks it rather difficult to identify particular tracks unless distinctive (and repeated) sounds/samples are placed, which harkens to the more traditional thematic approach. Although the kick and bass repeat for a given track there is much homogeneity in the genre in this respect and once again distiction becomes more difficult. Also by eschewing traditional forms and even repetition to a degree the music takes on a more "in the moment" sensibility. Each moment in the music is like a river where it's never the same for more than an instant and causality becomes more blurred.
I certainly enjoy being in a sound space with some good dark/abstract trance- and i like to dance into the music. Sometimes my complaint is the lack of overall strategy with respect to the energy density level of the sonics. I could only take about an hour of Kindzadza, after which it really did start to sound monolithic and me having difficulty getting a sense of direction, in the manner of "hmmm what's the point now?"
The thing about Pink Floyd is that if you want to experience their deeper psychedelic edge you probably should have seen them live back in the late 60's
oops...better get back to work here.
-dean
the dog of tears
the dog of tears
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Posted : Aug 15, 2007 00:50
i give the above post an A+. my sentiments exactly...
DiMiTry
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Posted : Aug 15, 2007 09:58
not sure if I agree with Dean 100% about the nature of melodies - I tend to see rules of harmony as fundamental to all nature, similar to mathematical formulas - and our emotional response to them being far more basic in nature than what society can encode.
I tend not to make as strong of a connection to completely abstract emotion-less psytrance. Very abstract music tends to sound too monastic, like a mutant outgrowth of an ascetic religious sect afraid to face its own humanity. Pure information without a solid emotional grounding ends up sounding empty.
It seems these days psytrance has become polarized - either too much 'cheese' or not enough. On the opposite end of the spectrum, minimal techno, the original abstract EDM genre, seems to be getting more and more melodic and emotionally involved - yet still remaining very heady and abstract, and very psychedelic. So there is a happy medium there, here's to hoping psytrance can find it sometime soon.
check out this new set by Dave the Drummer - for a beautiful example of an abstract techno / instrumental melodic patterns fusion.
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Posted : Aug 16, 2007 05:27
Quote:
On 2007-08-13 17:14, wichdokta wrote:
@ Rewarpster; I take it you never heard the Butthole Surfers remix of Donovan's " Heardy Geardy Man ". It's so far out there, it will almost scare you while tripping.
Well, I'm more like "Electric Lady Land" type of guy.
-- rewarp reality
spinalpuppet
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Posted : Aug 17, 2007 11:36
End of thread. In a million years Posford would not be able to touch this song pyschedelic wise:
listen to it with your eyes closed until the second chorus comes back.
krisamadhi
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Posted : Aug 17, 2007 17:43
Well Im glad I started this thread I think that all of you have educated alot of people on different types of psychedelic music. All I have to say to everyone is,
Enjoy all the music!
Magox
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Posted : Aug 19, 2007 06:49
Quote:
On 2007-08-17 11:36, spinalpuppet wrote:
End of thread. In a million years Posford would not be able to touch this song pyschedelic wise:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=v5_0iZQ-TuA
listen to it with your eyes closed until the second chorus comes back.
damn druggie music "On the path of spirituality, one ventures to vanquish one’s own faults rather than to judge others"
~OZRA~
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Posted : Aug 22, 2007 07:33
Quote:
On 2007-08-09 19:49, mono mono wrote:
Bill Laswell remixed a variety of Miles' electric music from the early 70's on an album called "Panthalassa"...highly recommended too! You might start here. -dean
I would definitely recommend the unaldulterated Miles over the Bill Laswell version. Laswell has had some good projects (Dreams of Freedom), but Panthallassa... i only heard the CD once and its been gathering dust.
psytantric
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Posted : Aug 23, 2007 07:36
thts well said man, i agree with u there........ [quote]
On 2007-08-13 19:51, pete wrote:
Quote:
I guess my point is I've gone deep into transcendental states, feeling on fire with the joy of existence manifested through loony dancing while music was playing that did not touch me emotionally at all, but rather got me fired up to freak out on the dancefloor, and that experience itself was emotional. At the same time, I don't think the creators of those tracks were primarily going for an intellectual expansion of what I considered music.
relezionizova
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Posted : Aug 23, 2007 13:08
You might consider music as a sound. But does all form of sound consider as music? I think we have to see this from the relativity of the event it self. Because it's depend from which perspective you see this and from which intention the composers (creator?) made this music and what is the condition that driven them to create it. Just like technology, language, knowledge etc. They could be misuse for certain purpose of individual, ego, subliminal, and empowering other weakness etc. Unlike the natural sound such the sound of the wind, water drops, wind, birds. Again, still in which condition is the listener in each of the moment this music presented. For example, I don't enjoy psytrance music that using the crying and abused screaming infant, it just not engage my registration, for what reason I make this reason is because of my ears and mind stage of comfort, and it might engaged the stage of comfort of the composer by using the power of innocent scream in to his/her work. does not mean that the "sweet" kind of melodic kind of form will engaged my comfort, because most of the "fake"ness of individual or group of souls often use the "beauty" as the mask to cover their rotten purpose, plan and activity. sound is the vibration that form us and the existence. But music, nothing to do with full circle and full circle is only a sweet name anyway, just like peace, love etc. very cheap.
protect your soul, not your believe, neither your tribe!
reveal the forbidden mistery !
wichdokta
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Posted : Aug 23, 2007 18:31
Full Circle is a sweet name for sure, he he he.
konvndrvm
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Posted : Aug 26, 2007 14:26
Maybe I'm just an asshole though.
