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Is it evolution if it's direction is towards another genre?

rich
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  103
Posts :  2184
Posted : Nov 16, 2004 04:07
I've recently had very well known artists/DJs who have been around since the early days tell me their new music is 'pushing psytrance in new directions', and that 'people need to be more open minded and allow psytrance to progess' etc. But I listen to their new, evolved psytrance and it sounds like house music. or like club trance (Digweed, Oakenfold etc).

So I ask, is it broadening psytrance and pushing it in a new direction when it sounds like it's evolving into another genre? in this case, house?

Sorry if this topic is redundant with other threads, I just want to be sure I'm not missing something. and I'd like to hear opinions
XIS
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  11
Posts :  66
Posted : Nov 16, 2004 05:32
I think that it´s a way to try and get new (more) listeners to listen to them, so they can earn some more money . When I buy a Psy album then that´s what want to hear, not something else. I think a very good example of that is "Infected Mushroom", their music are turning more and more into somekind of PopPsyTrance. OK, I understand if the artist wants to try something new, but most of the time that just lets us (Psy/Full on) listeners down.
So, Psy artists, stick to what you´re good at, and keep giving listernes that beautiful PsyTrance instead.
          I never sleep cuz sleep is da cousin of Death
Vicky
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  50
Posts :  709
Posted : Nov 16, 2004 07:31
not evolving
its dissolving           ------------------------------------
Beyond Logic!
Euphoric Meditation n' Beyond...
vicky@beyondlogic.net
http://www.beyondlogic.net/
------------------------------------
ganjagil
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  48
Posts :  858
Posted : Nov 16, 2004 08:38
Evolution goes forward not backward!

bom
Ganja           Your sound, is your music, is your soul keep them all on the right track!

Please Check our music at:
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blueOrb
IsraTrance Full Member

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Posts :  1698
Posted : Nov 16, 2004 10:10

theres a thin line between evolution and commercial.........

peace



          New mixes on
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Older Mixes on
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Jeff
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  180
Posted : Nov 16, 2004 10:41
Provocative, naive or stupid question, as you prefer : maybe all the psychedelic sounds and effects from musical instruments have already been used ?

Though I haven't received a convincing answer to that one yet...

For me Psy trance was always about discovering unheard distorted sounds with every new albums and comps. A genre always walking untrodden paths. A music ahead of its time by design. A music only made of exceptions. Very idealized I know...

That's why IMO importing sounds and structures from other genres (House, Club Trance, Breakbeat, whatever...) is a nice and refreshing idea, but that's not why I fell in love with Psy ten years ago...

And today, I can't precisely remember the last time I listen to a track and thought : "Wow, how the hell did they manage to make that crazy effect ???". How sad...

The sonic breakthrough are much more subtle and limited now I guess. X-Dream's We Interface for example. I'm sure there are innovative sounds in there, but all I can hear is Kraftwerk-like music with a strong bassline. And I feel very frustrated to have this deja-vu impression while listening to Psy...

J.
scobbah
Kiriyama

Started Topics :  35
Posts :  991
Posted : Nov 16, 2004 11:25
Another perspective is the record market evolution those past ehm, well since 2000~. Since the sales on records are just going down, there's no real chance anymore for small labels to survive or bring their contribution to the world. Labels are afraid of releasing stuff that does not gurantee "good" sales for them (so they know they can make the economic plan), and therefor we get a market who's very stereotyped. That's what we've seen those past 4 years I think, a full-onish dominated record market, or well with some help from the progressive vibes constitutioning the market as well.

Therefor, I think that we today can split the scene development into two directions. The first one is the previously more "stereotyped scene", who's experiencing rough influences now from other styles, elements and genres. Those are the one's you've mentioned, for example.

The second development are a bunch of people who've all come to their conclusion that they've had enough and that they're through with it. They've begun searching for the more "extreme" music (or other excursions of psytrance who's not really that familiar with stuff who's been released these last years) and building networks, small underground labels, party organizations and tribes in order to "preserve" what they have for the moment. For example, the development of heavy mental nightmusic has really struck down as a lightning those last years, something who wasn't that common nor big a few years ago. I think that the extreme excursions from what used to be "nightmusic" before, have reached and built a whole new layer to this scene. My conclusion is that the really mental ill music whom you might find if you really look for it is a direct respond upon the last years some what more "stereotyped" scene.

It's hard to actually face and fall in love with new innovative psytrance if you can't get too much help finding it - and this is the labels responsibility: providing us with new innovative music. But I don't blame them really, I understand their situations with sales going down and each release might be their last depending on how much $ they "score"...

My 5 cents, and those cents are very general and not the "truth", just another perspective that's all.
Lux
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  204
Posted : Nov 16, 2004 12:13
All of these things that you say people are all opinions and views that can be very true, but you haven't thought of one thing though, apart from the money factor, the labels and the market in general. For some djs and producers this really is an evolution of music for them.

I've met a lot of producers and djs that used to make music more or less from the beginning and they were telling me the same thing that rich said in his post. They told me that for them, this or that kind of style is evolution, because they were tired and bored of making the same kind of music again and again. Some of them turned to more housey, clubby, progressive, doesn't matter how you want to call it, while others turned into harder stuff with more bpms and crazier, darker sounds.

I know for example a producer who made some killer tracks some years ago on a very successful UK trance Label with full-on industrial trance, and now he makes house music and acid jazz, simply because he got tired of the same style and for him this was his musical evolution.

So sometimes it doesn't really have to do with money or the labels but the producers' & djs' taste.

At the end of the day there is so much music produced from so many different people that it is so simple for all of us.

Just choose...           Don't hope 2 much 4 something cause u may end up getting it...
ganjagil
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  48
Posts :  858
Posted : Nov 16, 2004 12:35
@ Lux

Nice point of view man i hadn't thought about it!

Bom
Ganja
exotic
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  200
Posts :  5057
Posted : Nov 16, 2004 14:13
i feel there are many more dimensions to be explored through psytrance.

dj's choice and taste matters in this case and so does the lure for money. at the end of the day the dj's / producers wants a gud product which will sell. and we cannot forget that the main drive behind it is the music. it's basically experimentation that will lead us sumwhere or advancement in technology in acoustics/ sound.
people involved in this genre of music will continue producing stuff as long as they love it. evolution i believe is not far away.

          missing plug-in
Stash
IsraTrance Full Member

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Posts :  1261
Posted : Nov 16, 2004 18:42
even most of the chemical crew stuff is now devolving           At the end there is a DOOR & waiting for you on the other side of that door is either HEAVEN or HELL
Cosmos Mariner


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  132
Posted : Nov 17, 2004 02:06
you have to seperate how the music is evolving commercially, and how it is evolving artistically. these things often go hand in hand as many people complain, ie. more commercial => less artistic.

i don't think its about the money tho, as much as demand. the labels aren't making very much money, so much as they're trying to give the people what they want. there's a lot of people who like the standard full-on sound, have a good time listening to it at parties, and aren't too concerned with how much the music is progressing. for better or worse.

you also have to keep in mind that psytrance is in some ways a very rigid structure. so while on one hand you want to be pushing the genre to new levels, coming up with new styles and sounds, on the other hand you have to be careful to stay within certain bounds, or else "its not psytrance" anymore.

the best producers know which structures to keep in place, and where to bend the rules. where they choose do that defines their style. which of these styles are chosen to represent the new direction of psytrance, well, thats up to the listeners, you and me!

personally i like where a some of the crossover dark/full-on music is going, so there's my vote!
          sound is vibration
psy^soldier
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  26
Posts :  922
Posted : Nov 17, 2004 02:41
lux!
great words didnt think like this at all
you kinda open my mind
Jeff
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  13
Posts :  180
Posted : Nov 17, 2004 09:42
Quote:

On 2004-11-17 02:06, Cosmos Mariner wrote:
there's a lot of people who like the standard full-on sound, have a good time listening to it at parties, and aren't too concerned with how much the music is progressing.



I'm with you on this one. The main reason may well be as simple as that I guess.

Quote:

you also have to keep in mind that psytrance is in some ways a very rigid structure.



Interesting, I wasn't under this impression. What structure are you refering to exactly (apart from the standard 4/4 rhythm) ?

J.

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