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I agree with soset

leaetherstrip


Started Topics :  4
Posts :  59
Posted : Dec 16, 2004 19:52
The trance scene in american lost its virality long ago and its not what it used to be. and it needs a different energy.

Why lock the forum, people are still posting their opinions I hate this dictator attitute sometimes in this forums let the people SPEAK.
miEtek


Started Topics :  2
Posts :  416
Posted : Dec 16, 2004 21:12
eh           na kopcu Kosciuszki za sterami Komandor.OrZech..
arrya
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  29
Posts :  280
Posted : Dec 16, 2004 21:20
the forum might need a different energy, but as a member of this forum for four and something years, i can quite safely say that it doesn't need more of soset's energy.

if you want pointless heated debate, find yourself a new blue page or go join congress . this one's reserved for trance, and people who give a damn.

          paagal power ..
mubali
Mubali

Started Topics :  71
Posts :  2219
Posted : Dec 16, 2004 21:28
I feel that the Psychedelic trance scene in America is still quite quite young and is doing all that it can to gain some recognition within the global community. I do agree that at times it doesn't neccesarrily seem that the way things are here are how they should be, and people are definitely within their right to address those issues. However, the WAY in which one addresses those issues that they have is really what got that particular thread closed. Looking at Soset's posts it seemed that she had a lot of gripes about the scene especially in New York, but how she communicated those concerns were not only inflammatory, but it could also be viewed as slightly disrespectful.

To be honest, anyone can have an opinion on what is wrong with a situation. But those that are truly committed to making a bad situation better will accompany their concerns with a plan of action that will cause the change that the individual so desired. If memory serves correctly, history is filled with people that didn't just complain about something... They did something about it too.

Why banter about a situation if you have no solution to it, and to make the matter even more inflammatory, Not want to provide a solution to it. It is fine to have your own ideal of what a community is, but rather than state that nobody has any idea of what a trance community is in the United States and leave it at that, why not share your ideas clearly without causing rancor? Of course not everyone will agree with your ideas, but people will respect them if they are clearly and politely communicated.

The culture of the United States is indeed a young one and one that has piggybacked on many ideals of other cultures in order to establish their own identity, we're not going to get it right all the time. However, rather than being a disciplinarian and stating how we aren't doing it right, one could just as easily be a teacher and show us the correct way. Remember actions do speak louder than words.

Now as to the energy of the scene here in the US... I honestly do not feel it is much different than anywhere else. Sure there are a lot less people than say Mexico or Israel or something along those lines but in the end this is a socially based counter culture. Yes the music is one of the common denominators that causes the gatherings to happen, but what would happen if there were not these access points of social interaction? What would you be doing? Would you be sitting at home alone listening to this music? How would you communicate the impact that the music has had on your personal development?

I personally wish that creating these nexus points of social and creative energies were not as financially taxing as they can be, however there is very little in our existance that does not have some sort of price tag attached to it. Anything that is truly worth doing will require some sort of investment, monetary or otherwise. When it is all said and done, these events and communities are not formed to provide some sort of personal gain for one individual. These communities are formed to provide for all who wish to be involved.

Soset's postings were not very clear in her intentions, yet she did not feel she needed to explain herself. She made it a point to continually dissect other people questioning her perspective and basically asking her to fully explain herself so that we may understand where she was coming from. And by continually being rather abrasive toward those that were just trying to understand, others felt the need to be abrasive towards her. This caused the thread to escalate into a torrent of namecalling, and general banter that really had no relevance on whatever point that she was attempting to make. I would much rather the conversation be ended than for it to continue to perpetuate itself into one big bitching thread about something that nobody has a clue how to deal with.

It's fine to let the people speak, but when the conversation loses any intelligent insight and becomes a mob of negative energy that isn't even directed, it just becomes truly destructive. And the last thing that is needed here in the United States is more destructive energy.

I came from a school of thought that if you can't say anything nice or constructive, Shut the Front Door.

I respect the fact that you feel that the scene here in America has lost it's virality, but let me ask you a couple of questions... Why has it lost the virality, and what can be done to get it back to the way it used to be?
          An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines.
slyman604
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  11
Posts :  263
Posted : Dec 16, 2004 21:49
Im not really sure what there is to gripe about here. Look at the thread on the main general/trance forum chat "does this happen in your country??". Is that what you consider a virile scene? To me the US scene is far more virile, like this natural selection of taste has weeded out all but the people who are really into it. I think what we have here is much better than 5000 people showing up to see some rock star type super act, 70% going because its the thing to do or whatever.
Im not really sure i see it getting to much different in the near future either here. In pittsburgh here, psytrance is linked with the rave scene and the rave scene is just over in most peoples minds. I imagine its not so much different outside of the places where psytrance has a holding now.
i just think a close nit group of freaks is far more desierable than a large scene just for the sake of size.
paradigm
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  54
Posts :  1098
Posted : Dec 16, 2004 22:04
Just too add my 2 cents about the US scene losing its vitality.
Yeah maybe it has lost a little something over the past years, but its not as bad as people like to make it sound.
People, the US scene is a underground one. It seems that everyone here fails to grasp that notion.
Underground means small and personal, something i myself prefer.
The scene's in almost any other country in the world are not underground.
Psy trance is a realtivly mainstream, commercially marketed item in countries where it is popular, much like house is here in the US.
Personally id rahter not go to a party that is sponsored by red bull and mtv, but maybe thats just me.
or for that matter, financed by the Russian Mob or a Latin American drug cartel.
If you like 1000's of people at events, than perhaps to you , the US scene is lacking, if you prefer community and smaller events that have heart and are not money making machines, enjoy what you have,
I know that most of the promoters in this country work there asses off to make these events happen. Its not easy in this country, with the fear that has been installed into property owners and law enforcement. Its a challenging task, and a big risk everytime. Besdies the fact that its rare to make an money on a event and a thing to be celebrated even if you break even, I always wonder if each time is the last time i will be doing it, I always wonder if by the end of the night i will be hauled away in the back of a cop car for doing something i love. I know i dont feel alone on this, and as a promoter, that pours his heart and soul into what i do, it really galls me at the things people, that obviously have no idea what we put into doing this say
and if you think you can do better than what we do have, than i challenge you to do it
David(KIVA)
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  36
Posts :  487
Posted : Dec 16, 2004 22:38
leatherstrip
I dont know where you live dude but the trance scene I grew up in has grown exponentially and still is growing. I like my scene just the way it is! I go where the good music is and dance! Its pretty simple actually.

And frankly, I have a "community" that comes first in my life and thats my family. My interaction with them is way more important than even my love for music or this scene. Although my wife might say different. Family is free and doesnt cost a damn thing! no price tags there mubali.

I just cant seem to figure out why there is such a priority on anything else. I know were all human and we cant stop being, living, finding,searching etc. but this whole discussion about the scene and whats wrong with it just seems like a waist of time. JUST LOVE THE MUSIC AND ACT RIGHT its simple! support its djs, promoters, artist etc. keep going on, live your life well and love your family! Whoever they are.


          http://soundcloud.com/djkiva
mono mono
Onnomon

Started Topics :  5
Posts :  314
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 04:04

"The human being is a part of the whole, called by us "Universe", a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feelings as something separated from the rest- a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty. Nobody is able to achieve this completely, but the striving for such achievement is in itself a part of the liberation and a foundation for inner security."

- Albert Einstein


ocelot
ocelot

Started Topics :  94
Posts :  783
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 09:39
the trance scene has changed a lot over the years in the usa and worldwide. there are many different types of events with regards to music styles, venues (clubs vs warehouse vs open air...) as well as size.

where before there were a small handfull of very tightknit collectives in san francisco, for instance, there is now a slightly larger scene but with a bit less focus and a bit looser. Some groups have lost their energy, some have just started.

The have seen lots of ups and downs in this scene here for the last 7-8 years and i'm sure there were many before. This city has had many ups and downs as relates to the economy and the general vibe on the street.

I really don't know what the people who say "the scene sucks here" have in mind. Are they just saying that to complain, to spur some solution minded-brainstorming, or to feel better about themselves and some memory they have of their first goa parties...??? I don't really know and i'm sure it depends.

Anyway- nothing has been the fucking same since Tip 3D and UX back in 94 so what the hell!?
moving ONward-
the music being made here in SF is insane.
there is a real producer culture here than i find richer than anywhere i've been so...
David(KIVA)
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  36
Posts :  487
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 21:03
It is just as rich as LA in alot of ways and to back up what ocelot is saying, that culture of growing musicians is proof that the scene is strong. I couldnt agree more. Some people should listen to the older stuff! then it would be right in thier faces. The music since 94 has spun into a progressive creative wonder offering new flavors of this beautiful music. The proof is in the sequences, the production, for fucks sakes just the evolution of the kick has blown me away not mention the development of basslines you hear today!! long live the music!           http://soundcloud.com/djkiva
offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  928
Posted : Dec 17, 2004 21:52
The issue here is not the quality of the music. Granted there are incredible productions from a pool of almost limiteless imagination and strong creative power. As well with all the arts surrounding our celebrations, we have plenty of trully engaging masterpieces with hard work and great thought behind them. We have not even reach the peak of the culture, on the contrary we are still awakening to the infinite possibilities.

It is stablished psy trance is alive and kickin' some serious dust But, sporing from psychedelic trance there is a marketing driven trend to standarize and capitalize the music, the art, the clothes, the thoughts... IMHO there is a lack of humanity in this part of the movement. MUsic is predesigned to grab the ignorant's money and make him believe that what is sold to them is the real experience. Music is not music anymore but another pre-packaged product where a quantized maximum commom denominator for human taste is tranlated into standard synth lines, basslines, effects, deco, fashion and thoughts.

I do not blame ppl for doing this, but the spirit of what we believe is lost in the process. It also confuses its audience about what the experience is about.

I used to be quite hardcore about this in particular and boycott, parties and artists. Now I keep my mouth shut and let ppl like Soset to bring this issues to the light. I personally choose to gather with ppl with a vision and great heart and learn from them.
furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  1383
Posted : Dec 22, 2004 23:13
Quote:


to offthenutboom: how do u wake up to infinite possibilities? cuz if there were...why would u not want to sleep




couldn't have said it better.
cheers nokeyaah
and merry cgristmas to all           Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.

www.ganesha.ca
BrettFromTibet
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  61
Posts :  749
Posted : Dec 23, 2004 00:20
i have gotten quite jaded and become cranky myself...

less than a year ago... I was totally into buying trance CDs, very stoked for the party, had no strong opinions at all about music...other than "bring it on!"

i have a HIGH TRANCE DRIVE ..and the very occasional, underground nature of US trance leaves me DRY with lots of pent-up energy....

and i spent too much energy mentally resisting what i don't like in the scene ... and not enough trying to create what I do like...

----------

i don't know if this lapse is life's way of telling me it's time to "grow out" of psy-trance and move onto a newer and brighter scene and horizion...

but old visions die hard, and I still would love to see a vivrant UNDERGROUND scene in this country (outside SF-LA-NYC also!) could see international psy-trance acts... and promoters wouldn't lose their last penny, freedom, or their sanity trying to make it happen....

i want to believe it's possible...and that America will be the last secret underound refuge after the rest of the globe has been tranced-out and spoiled...
offthenutboom
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  55
Posts :  928
Posted : Dec 23, 2004 00:41
To NoKeyAah:
I think it is a matter of choice, isn't it? The alarm clock is ticking and I am sure you will want to wake up for this one.
Trance Forum » » Forum  North America - I agree with soset

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