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How you deal with depression?
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 29, 2010 04:15
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Fometrius
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 29, 2010 16:34
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yeah,for me that can be understood as two messages,and both are good  |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Apr 29, 2010 17:54
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There is a depression and there is a depression. Drinking yourself to death because your girlfriend dumped you does not necessarily mean depression.
In many people depression is caused by a serious neurochemichal imbalance. Meditation, dance parties and volunteering in homeless shelters may help in those cases but won't cure. So, for those people the sequence must be: drugs (SSRIs, if possible), therapy, meditation, then all that life-style stuff.
And a side note, if it's of practical importance to anybody here: if you get an old-school psychiatrist, who still prescribes what he did in 1980s - go elsewhere. Drugs evolved tremendously in the last 20-30 years. There is no need to deal with terrible side effects if you can avoid it. Stay away from trycyclics (Amitriptyline etc), try to get SSRIs (Prozac etc). This is just a general idea. Your body, however, may prefer otherwise. So, don't sue me - I am not a licenced physician and this is not a professional advice. |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 29, 2010 19:37
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In many people depression is caused by a serious neurochemichal imbalance. Meditation, dance parties and volunteering in homeless shelters may help in those cases but won't cure. So, for those people the sequence must be: drugs (SSRIs, if possible), therapy, meditation, then all that life-style stuff.
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thats not necessarily true, that way of thinkin s a school of thoughts ( if im not wrong its called floyd ) acepted in the modern society
they say that the source of depression are chemicals disorder in the brain.... puttin the science in first place... which imo science s = fail nowadays...
imo u should avoid psychiatry drugs the most possible.... once inside those drugs u ll hardly find another way to deal with it....
imo u should always seek the source... all depression s led by a trauma... ( which lead to the chemical desorder ) ....
traumas can be acquired the many possible ways like... a broken love relation till more complex like a brain that works different from the patterns of our society... exemple : esquizofreny.... but that esquizofrenic people dont necessarily means he/she s crazy..but he/she only has a different brain that not fits in our pattern, so that person s led to act different and THEN the so wise modern school dope him withdrugs .... tsc tsc ....
put a native indian person inside new york city and that person will feel depressed... put a modern shoppin addicted person inside the jungle for days and that person will feel depressed....
avoid chemical drugs for depression always.... it doesnt cure ur depression just put u in a numb state of no sensations...
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Apr 29, 2010 20:48
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Ah, the eternal nature vs. nurture debate... 
Yes, an Indian Chief will get depressed in Manhattan and Woody Allen will assume the fetal position in New Jersey, not to mention a jungle. Yet, it's the Indian who is more likely to drink himself do death. Genetics is hard to escape sometimes...
Psychiatric illnesses often have a genetic component. I actually studied the genetics of bipolar disorder (a.k.a. manic-depressive illness). People can be pre-disposed to disease before they are even born. Certainly long before their parents abuse them or their girlfriend dumps them or their government sends them to Afghanistan.
So, you are certainly right about trauma - but this is not the whole story.
I was not talking in terms of "forget therapy and meditation - just drug yourself". I was talking about the fact that you actually need to treat some people chemically before they can even be responsive to the therapy. Or would you rather gamble and wait what happens first - suicide or tatherapeutic breakthrough? I would prefer to make sure my patient is alive and actually listening to me first.
And I never advocated continuous medication of everybody. Which is why I suggested to stay away from tricyclics - they are nearly impossible to quit (and no texbook will tell you that!) |
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 29, 2010 22:41
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but i find ofensive when u say that : "Psychiatric illnesses often have a genetic component" "So, for those people the sequence must be: drugs (SSRIs, if possible), therapy etc.... "
coz u are afirmin such thing as it was the ultimate true... and then u may be inducin people to take those bad drugs... and u are also treatin psychology problems as ILNESS.....
when even ur books/school that u have studied are just another acepted point of view....
and ALSO because : get a freak trancer around there and put him inside a psychiatry doc room , , what the doc will recomend him ? those stupid drugs... but is that person mental ilness ? no he just not fits in the patterns from his surround... and thats considered ILNESS... and there we ll have a great person with open minded, runnin the risk of bein doped and loose his talents.. which s to be different........
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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RaDioAcTiVe AcIdHeAd
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Posted : Apr 30, 2010 00:41
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Drugs shud be the last resort... There are million other ways u can cure depression for millions of ppl... Drugs shud only be used only as a last resort on hopeless ppl for whom all other options have failed and who are at wits end...
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Apr 30, 2010 01:16
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On 2010-04-29 22:41, Vermeee wrote:
but i find ofensive when u say that : "Psychiatric illnesses often have a genetic component" "So, for those people the sequence must be: drugs (SSRIs, if possible), therapy etc.... "
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Some people will find it offensive if I tell them that Christmas presents are not made by elves. Reality is ugly sometimes. It’s not (entirely) my fault.
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coz u are afirmin such thing as it was the ultimate true... and then u may be inducin people to take those bad drugs... and u are also treatin psychology problems as ILNESS.....
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I did not give you any absolutes. Some people become bipolar or depressed much easier than others because of genetic reasons. It’s just a scientific truth – however ugly it may be. Likewise, some people will not respond to psychotherapy until you medicate them. They will not talk to you and they will not listen to anything you say. And if they do listen, they will twist every word in their mind just because they are in a very-very dark place. It’s your duty to bring them out of that place – and sometimes chemistry is the only way to achieve this.
I am completely against the prevalent drug-dealing approach to psychiatry. Psychiatrists should do psychotherapy too – but most of them (in the US at least) don’t. They just listen to you for 15 minutes and give you a prescription. And on the other pole there are some psychologists that will spend years talking to you about Oedipus complex and penis envy, while all you need is 3 weeks of Prozac and a good friend to help you get up on your feet. The right way would avoid both extremes and treat every case individually and not according to an ideological dogma.
Every approach (and every professional practicing it) has its place and time. An ugly family situation may need a good friend, a marriage counselor, a social worker, a psychiatrist or a cop. It all depends on a particular situation. The same thing with depression. Some people need to just get up and go out. Others need to spend a couple days with a friend. Some will need months of therapy or a spiritual retreat. Others will need medication. Yet others may need to be hospitalized and closely observed.
You argue as though I am an extremist trying to push some ideology here, while it seems quite the opposite. Just because your ideology is not mainstream, it does not make it any less biased. Wha if we both try to stay away from the extremes, eh?
And yes, drugging a person just because he does not conform to some artificial norm is wrong. No argument there. I am not a big fan of administering amphetamines to children just because they don’t sit still during their school classes, for example.
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 30, 2010 01:22
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another exemple here... u said : "I actually studied the genetics of bipolar disorder (a.k.a. manic-depressive illness )."
so u sayin that bipolar people have genetic manifestation or some kind of chemicals "desorder" or whatever.. so only because that person has a different way of working.. does it mean he/she is SICK ? only because of his/her difference?
blame the patterns for he/she depression that since he/she was little he grew bein bombed by the media/school sayin how to behave how to be , what to believe , what s right , and whats wrong...
and the solution from the modernism s give him/her drugs to dope the person coz he/she s not aceptable by society in that way..
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Apr 30, 2010 03:32
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^
You are trying to bring it all to the extreme again.
I never said that a person is sick just because he has tattoos all over his body and likes gangsta rap. It may cross my mind – but I would not declare this as a truth. This is just his individual style choice.
There are variations of the norm.
There are borderline pathologies – like early stages of alcoholism or spending 23 hours a day in front of a video game.
There are psychological disorders – like posttraumatic syndrome or neuroses.
And there are more serious psychiatric disorders – like mania, depression and delusions. And I am not talking about somebody babbling too much after a cup of coffee or somebody sad because his favorite team lost a game or somebody believing in Santa here.
When a manic person walks out of his window because he believes he can fly or a depressed person does the same thing because they can not handle their melancholy anymore – it’s a bit beyond being different and original, won’t you say?
The same goes for a person who steals lawn sprinklers from his neighbors and waters his lawn until it becomes a swamp. Apparently, there are evil space aliens in West Detroit. They are trying to turn people into rats by putting special poison in the city water. And the only way to save humanity is to filter as much water as possible through your lawn. Oh, yeah, and when the city officials come asking questions, this guy just shoots the crap out of them. Does it still sound like somebody fresh and original and not sick at all?
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Vermeee
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Apr 30, 2010 15:17
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alright my friend... but im talkin bout SICKNESS or NOT ?
someone with bipolar desorder... because he has a different brain ... he s MENTAL ILNESS ?
or lets use ur new exemple.. : that dude tha believe in evil space aliens in west detroit , that are turnin people into rads.... he s MENTAL ILNESS ?
coz imo he;she ll NEVER be mental ilness... but he ll be treated as one coz that desorder or believeness are not adaptable to that generation...
and the FACT of he;she needin DRUGS s very relative.... as radioactive said... imo drugs should be the last resort and only when the person s hopeless.. but even that maniac that believes in space aliens turnin people into rats... can get along fine in this reality if he be wise enough to not get hit-and-run by the society patterns...
antidepressive pills = capitalism/socialism.....
http://soundcloud.com/bgos |
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Maine Coon
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Apr 30, 2010 17:58
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I already explained to you: different does not mean sick, but sick means different. Some people are just odd - does not mean they are sick. The easiest (although not entirely right) way to draw the line is to see whether this person is harming himself and/or people around him.
A dude fantasizing about evil aliens is not necessarily sick. A dude stealing everybody's sprinklers and turning his neighborhood into a shooting range is. A girl crying in a movie theater is just sensitive. A girl jumping out of the window because a voice told her she is a worthless whore and has to die - this one is probably sick.
And I dont' argue with you about the role mainstream society plays in pushing people towards psychiatric illness. I certainly saw more crazy people on the streets of NYC than in the woods of Oregon. But you are clinging to just one facet of this problem. It's just one part of it - not the whole. Genetics, diet, sleeping patterns - and complex interactions of these factors with each other - have their role here too.
About medication. I think we just have different experiences here. To you "Catatonic Despare" is a darkpsy producer. To me it's something I've seen very close. And believe me - catatonic patients are not receptive to pep talks and guided meditation. They are entirely locked in. Drugs are the only way to get them out of this state (and even that does not always work). And the same thing happens to badly depressed people. They will look through you and continue thinking very dark thoughts. Or they will take your words and twist them into something dark and negative in their minds. So, you'd think yu are helping them, while you are actually making them worse. And when those people commit suicide (or even worse - shoot a bunch of innocent people before taking their own life) - you can not use that "they are just different" logic any more. You have to bring them out of that dark hole. And if Prozac is the only way - use Prozac then. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 8, 2010 03:41
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I would try and stay away from medication!
studies have shown that it can leave you more empty then you where before...
So a change of lifestyle, stop reading news and other crappy things that makes you worried, often you have made connections in your head that need to be broken.
As always there will be things that you need to work with more than other, Meditation is probably one of the best solutions, as Qi gong and athletic exercise.
Long walks with new routes always, and in slow tempo.
Also practise some thing that you like, like juggle, drumming or whatever suites you.
Shamanism can be a field to study!
Eat well, good food and vitamins if you cant find the power to start with healthy food, take vitamins to boost you. B75, C, Zink, Iron, Magnesium, Calcium.
well basically. there are probably much more vitamins, lots of good stuff in tomatoes and spinach...
Most of all try and break the patterns, and go against the obstacle, do whatever you can to climb and go over them... it can mean you walk up to someone and say hi, even if you dont feel like doing it, or jump in to a bush, just challenge your self...
Brain is a little fucker and we must defeat him, lol
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Gopendragon
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : May 11, 2010 00:24
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Try to make some spiritual healing methods,energetic therapies like reiki,or find a shaman to make u a healing ceremony drinking ayahuasca vine,this sacred elemental being can help u to explore deep within ur psychology,give understandings about the egos,and clean u from all negativity,belive this precious entHeogenic do miracles,or also u can try a wonderfull cactus named ,san pedro ,I am sure that it will make ur life happier!!
If u are familiar with mantras,chant the holy names of god,take a mala and do some japa,chanting is always beneficial,even if u belive in the power or not,everywhere u are anything u do..
If u are a like sweet fragrances to smell,try to get aromatotherapy,or if u are a hippy flower boy,get in closer contact daily with flowers..
There are a lot healthy ways to fight against depresion,just choose what fits u better.
~~~~~~~namaskar~~~~~~~~~
After the End,a new Begining startS.. |
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Aluxe
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : May 20, 2010 07:59
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Hey Login I don’t know what the truth of depression is but I personally try and solve those issues by trying to go deep into the layers of my mind and searching for any mess I can find that needs cleaning or reorganizing. And I also try to discover which thoughts or outlook in my mind is draining me and try to visualize and feel which direction I need to go to power up the system again. You may look at your inner self and feel overwhelmed and drained because of the lack of clarity or because what you want maybe is too far from where you are, so it may all seem impossible to accomplish or figure out.
But you can climb the mountain step by step, clean the dust sweep by sweep. Eventually you will have cleaned enough mess inside that you will now see a window that you did not see before, and that will give you a new perspective and energy to move further. Just always remember that you have great power inside and the trick is to find those thoughts in your mind that make you feel free and loved. But you have to get rid of the fear. Because you can not give yourself the freedom and love you want unless you believe that you are worthy of that love and greatness. And this society trains us in many ways to think of ourselves as little insignificant humans that can not aspire to be enlightened or something truly good and pure from the heart. We start telling ourselves we are full of ego if we start thinking of ourselves as pure. That’s how bad our self image is, we are in many ways in the gutter, full of guilt, reppressed and malnourished and can not aspire to search for the higher realms of existence or enlightment. That mountian is too high for what we have learned about ourselves in our dysfunctional society, better go focus on money and your new job instead, haha. So the holy path is left behind.. its too holy for us. Because our self esteem is so messed up that we do not feel worthy of being like Budhas or enlightened people, so we never even think of going in that direction and if we do its with great struggles and set backs because of our doubtful minds. We think liberation is a throne that is reserved for the saints and super beings, not for mere humans. Can we love humanity more and give it the gift of liberation? We look up to the saints but do not look up to ourselves. I mean what treasure and light do we see in those saints that we can not see in ourselves? The thing is we are shrunken in fear and we can not grow because of it. It’s FEAR that makes us deny ourselves the freedom to give that gift of enlighntment to ourselves.
So free your mind and power up! We have to start believing in ourselves at deeper and higher levels and beliving in this world in new ways. Bring the love to this earth and bring it yourself!
This society does not make it easy, you look around and it’s almost like a soul killer. Full of mental trash and cheap highs, all about competition, and heartless commercialism that feed and reinforce the idea that we as humans are not worth very much and can not create the world that we would like. So it’s hard to feel the magic sometimes and that makes you want to just give up. But take it easy, just explore you mind, challenge all your perceptions about yoruself and about the world because in these days the truth is in the underground, desiguised. There are many traps. There is fear disguised as morality, sometimes fear disguised as spirituality too. Discover the truth for yourself and let your guide be your heart so you know the path is good and groovy. Yeah the truth is not always easy to follow, but you will always find life nourishing liberating energy there! Goodness for one and all. Where we all want to be.
But anyway man, I think I am now going into some kind of tangent. But I think it still relates to depression. See I get motivated by the idea that we are amazing living beings living in an AMAZING universe and that much of what we think is reality maybe in the end is just our own collective or even personal perception. So I get motivated to break the grid, to step outside the box, to break free from all I have been told so I can have a second of pure thought with my own eyes and heart so I dont sell myself and the vision I have for humanity short. And that little breath of fresh air makes me believe in the world and I often find there that the impossible is not necessesarily impossible. Because when you break outside the grid the rules are different and there is new hope for everything, including depression and many problems we have.
Like Terrence Mckenna said here:
'Everything you know is wrong.' But that is a very liberating understanding, because if everything you know is wrong, then all the problems you thought were insoluble can be framed differently.
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