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How compilations are made
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aog406
IsraTrance Junior Member
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48
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 12:45
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Question to those who actually make compilations that get released (or just know - not guess - how it is done) - how do the tracks get selected?
1) the releasing companies choose what they like best; or
2) they include tracks to REPRESENT/COVER what is currently going on in the scene (even if they see that some tracks are mediocre)?
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volvox box 2
Infect Insect
Started Topics :
2
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235
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 15:50
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it depends on label's rabbit |
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DETOX
Moderator
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Posted : Feb 19, 2007 19:11
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Serious compilations need serious money and serious connections,once you got these two then you can proceed otherwise be patient.
 Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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Posted : Feb 19, 2007 19:41
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Quote:
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On 2007-02-19 19:11, DETOX wrote:
Seriously commercial compilations need serious money and serious commercial connections,once you got these two then you can proceed otherwise be patient.
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Corrected your post for you.
If your in it for the money and think being serious is more important than enjoying and dealing with music you love, then you indeed need money and good connections.
If you happen to like commercial big names of course detox is right...no point releasing music you don't like because you cannot get the artists you like because of lack of funds or connections.
For the original question there is of course not one answer.
Serious commercial labels probably often concern themself with current trends, as well as some small "underground" labels.
Luckily there is a few labels that simply release the music they love.
When compiling though it's unfortunally not easy to find enough artists for a comp with a unique style that still all fit together.
So even if you don't concern yourself with trends it can be hard to make a comp work as a whole if you don't follow some sort of trends.
Same thing with DJ sets...hence we get a lot of act's sounding very similar in both underground and commercial trance since people make that make the music like to get it played and released.
Nothing better IMO than a label or DJ that can put orignial music that sound very varied into one coherent set/compilation....but thats difficult and requires a lot more skill.
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gaspard
Yab Yum
Started Topics :
50
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641
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 20:12
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Quote:
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On:41, Spindrift wrote:
Quote:
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On:11, DETOX wrote:
Seriously commercial compilations need serious money and serious commercial connections,once you got these two then you can proceed otherwise be patient.
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Corrected your post for you.
If your in it for the money and think being serious is more important than enjoying and dealing with music you love, then you indeed need money and good connections.
If you happen to like commercial big names of course detox is right...no point releasing music you don't like because you cannot get the artists you like because of lack of funds or connections.
For the original question there is of course not one answer.
Serious commercial labels probably often concern themself with current trends, as well as some small "underground" labels.
Luckily there is a few labels that simply release the music they love.
When compiling though it's unfortunally not easy to find enough artists for a comp with a unique style that still all fit together.
So even if you don't concern yourself with trends it can be hard to make a comp work as a whole if you don't follow some sort of trends.
Same thing with DJ sets...hence we get a lot of act's sounding very similar in both underground and commercial trance since people make that make the music like to get it played and released.
Nothing better IMO than a label or DJ that can put orignial music that sound very varied into one coherent set/compilation....but thats difficult and requires a lot more skill.
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hear hear!!
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Terry Pratchett |
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l337
IsraTrance Full Member
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55
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817
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 21:54
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haha.... its just detox scaring off the masses with his cynical crap
describe serious money, is that different to happy money, or sad money or even excited money
detox no one needs connections, you just need loads of cash, cash buys connections
dude all you need is money
then buy the rights to the track for your compilation and then you can do whatever you like with it, give it to your granny or whoever, fuck once you have "bought" the track you can give them away.... 
ok enough cynical banter for tonight
p.s in advance.... chill on this one detox, we all know your a hot shot label owner and you have no respect for the so-called wannebes who want to start their own labels
p.p.s you also need a good business brain, like skazi  |
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Jester Records
Jester Records
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254
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 21:55
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I guess it is different for every label... i can only speak for myself when i say that we released our compilation by gathering a combination of artists that inspired me (Authentik, Three point turn, Spirallianz, Metalogic, Nuclear Ramjet, Dj Preach) with other artists from friends of mine whom also make good music.
It was more of a "Build your own compilation with your favorite artists" for us, and that's pretty much how it ended..
It took alot of money to put together, and in the end we lost more than we gained but to follow a dream it was well worth it.
that's our story : www.jesterrecords.ca !!!
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
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168
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2984
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 00:22
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Great, another topic to fight with Detox, starring the same characters as usual. This reminds me of a debate from long ago about how "underground" has become a euphemism for lack of quality control and a lack of professionalism. Remember that one?
Commercial or not, I own every Exposure compilation... and I don't even like that kind of full-on most of the time. It's true; money talks. However much I might want to make a free compilation happen, or even put together a CD myself, I have learned that the material on hand will probably not be sufficient to my own personal standards of quality unless I start to throw around a lot of cash. Great releases might come together on a shoestring budget but I highly doubt it happens very often. I would argue such an approach relies too much on hook-ups and dumb luck to become an effective business strategy. Maybe it can happen, but don't bet on it.
As for the original question: the labels that remain sensitive to current trends tend to be more successful for obvious reasons. Every now and then a label can build a reputation that enables them to take artistic risks (Iboga can afford to take a chance but Digital Structures probably need a "sure thing" for example), but most of the free-spirited and independent labels probably operate at a loss. You should also keep in mind there are general trends and specific ones... so while electro-progressive house crossover might be the hot sound of the moment, Derango-style forest trance and Zolod productions also represent a commercially viable trend. If you look for what is unequivocally not trendy (old school Goa trance & techtrance/minimal) you will find labels serving a niche (Suntrip & Zenon) that consequently seem to exhibit more freedom of choice in what they release. I think it cuts both ways.
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Spindrift
Spindrift
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33
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1560
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 02:00
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Quote:
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On 2007-02-20 00:22, basilisk wrote:
Great releases might come together on a shoestring budget but I highly doubt it happens very often. I would argue such an approach relies too much on hook-ups and dumb luck to become an effective business strategy. |
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Effective business strategy?
Anyone with a clue about effective business would not be releasing psy/goa/dark trance to try to earn money.
There has been labels that did have a clue about what an effective business strategy is when trance was still trendy in the west and selling ok, but they have left the game by now.
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On 2007-02-20 00:22, basilisk wrote:
Derango-style forest trance and Zolod productions also represent a commercially viable trend. |
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Not by far. I'm pretty confident that there is not one label owner earning a half decent salary from releasing that kind of music. I know for a fact that some of the most respected labels in that genre is hardly a break even operation. Commercially viable it sure aint.
But like I said...in a way I do agree with what detox and basilisk are saying...you need money to run a traditional label, and connections do help to both sign artists and get good distribution.
It's really not good when people are overly optimistic and make promises they cannot keep to the artists, and I would not dream about running a traditional label unless I had enough funds put aside to make sure that all artists get properly paid also if me or my distributors don't do their job properly.
But unless you have a mainstream taste and instead like me is in to more underground and unpolished sounds there is plenty of great artists that is dying to get their music out.
I'm really passionate about the music I release, and I can honestly say that there is not one label I would like to change catalouge with.
It's a bonus that in many cases it's music that would not be released elsewhere and that I don't have to work according to a model where I would be forced to deprive the artists of their rights to their own work.
So it's definately not universally true that you need money to run a label releasing music your love and feel you are doing something that feels rewarding.
Basically there are different angels on it....you don't have to have money and follow trends unless you like commercial music and/or are trying to make money of your label. In that case you need quite a bit of cash that you can afford to lose if you don't turn out to be as good at running a label as you thought. Otherwise do not bother.
There is already enough labels with bad finances that cannot keep their promises to the artists.
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Rah
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Feb 20, 2007 06:01
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From this conversation we have established a couple of interesting things I can attest. A label releasing twisted and 'underground' (as in not the very popular stuff) is not a wise economic endeavor, but damn satisfying…
What can we establish then, is that you can put together a label with in a shoe-string budget and there's loads of people waiting to be released, but the sad fact is there is also a bunch of people waiting to be released, which still need to sit down a bit longer to perfect the art. Or at least to offer something different. If you are a new artist for any kind of genre or whatever, think to yourself at least once, to see if you are honestly offering something new to the scene, if you have acquired your ‘own’ sound… If the name of the game is learn the tricks everyone else is doing, just so you can do it all over again, with even more kilargh rasping synth lines and terminator samples; perhaps it's not all that fresh.
On top of that nowadays it's a lot easier to make your own label and release your music if you know people, than it is to try and be associated with a respectable label. And here trouble starts... so labels borrow to print and press CD's... they release their own music, their mates, and those couple of tracks from other people with the assurance you will pay them as soon as the distributor starts sending money. The problem is, you won't see any money for at least... 3-6 months... and you still have to pay for mastering... and you still have to pay for printing and pressing... and... by then... you realize the compilation did not sell too well and you owe money to everyone but the cat. So now the distributor needs to see a return from somewhere and they keep signing more and more new labels.
in this same circle, you have respected artists that are doing something new on the scene, offering different sounds, fresh ideas... the problem is, like everything else in life... 'good' costs money. and really good, costs even more money. We are recycling a very impressive lineage of artists from the pasts, that were used to getting paid, with people that basically do it in the terms of 'hobbyists' …. and no offence there, I’m certainly in that cat category, because I’m not making a living selling music… so it’s a hobby.
What needs to be pointed out is that, if we have a system that is economically worthless for artists, They are going to be departing to other scenes where is viable to make music. Not because people are sellouts, but because they are artists and that’s what they eat with, same with labels and then the people on top distributing. So yes, a lot of us do it for the love of it, because we breathe and live psy and we want to contribute in any way we can, but the economic factor is equally important. We have already established labels barely breakeven, the money is there so they can keep afloat…this matters to you if quality music is of any concern… otherwise you can just disregard this rant…
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DETOX
Moderator
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Posted : Feb 20, 2007 21:40
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SPINDRIFT thanks a lot but my original post was just fine and no correction was needed.
Like you very correctly said if someone has the slightest idea of effective business strategy then there is no way he will get involved into the psy trance business market since most of the laws of business just loose their sense and meaning in this sick market.BUT this doesnt mean that in order to run a label today you dont need money,connections and essential business knowledge,after all running a label is running a business even a strange kind of business.
Oh and please how can any psytrance compilation be commercial in our days when most of the cds out there dont sell more than 2000 copies?The psy trance scene is an underground scene as a whole no matter if someone releases full on or psy trance or progressive or whatever so please the 'commercial' word aside when speaking about psy trance,i mean even Skazi who is considered as an ultra pop act in our days is known to no more than 500.000 people all around the globe if you ask me,this makes him commercial?Please give me a break.
So i insist that if someone wants to run a serious label then he needs serious money and connections no matter what kind of music he wants to release,signing music costs money,printing cds costs money,mastering costs money,artwork costs money,promotion costs money,having a website costs money,having an office and people working for you costs money,maintaining a legal company and paying your taxes costs money etc etc etc.Yes a friend might help you for free with the artwork or someone else might help you for free with the mastering and some people might give you for free their music in order to release something but usually when a label relies mostly on things being done for free by close friends then it cant be a serious label because either we like it or not if we want something good then we got to pay for it because when we pay for something we can also have demands about it,you see when a friend is willing to help you with the artwork lets say then you cant demand a lot from him if he comes up with a result that you dont like so much but when you pay someone to do the artwork for you then he is obliged to deliver the desired result that you got in your mind.
Unfortunately good intentions and will is not enough to run a serious label just like they are not enough to run any kind of business.
l337 serious money means a big ammount of money,nothing to do with happy money or sad money or excited money,maybe you need to refresh your english a little bit except ofcourse if you were trying just to be funny which i must admit was a very very bad effort.
By the way money cant buy you all the connections you might need in order to release whatever compilation.You might be a very rich guy but you might not be able to find some of your desired artists,you might think that its easy to locate lets say Man With No Name or Hallucinogen or GMS but trust me its not easy at all and once you locate these guys no matter how much money you offer them if they dont have the time to make a track for you (if ofcourse they decide that they want to release a track on your new label) then they will simply not give you a track.Ofcourse if you offer them ridicusly high ammounts of money they will probably make you a track but we are talking about stupidity then since paying 100 euros for something that other people buy for 30-40 euros then is plain stupid if you ask me and will lead you sooner or later in closing the label.
Oh and something last,i have full respect for everyone who wants to start a serious new label,like Tribal Vision who is an example for many people to follow,i dont have though respect for everyone who wants to start a new label just to pretent to be a label owner and to release his own and his friends music just because noone else is willing to do so and in order to promote himself and his friends so that they get some bookings or even worst to exploit new artists and get their music for free and release it for his own profit,no need to mention any examples i guess since 8 out of 10 labels in the scene today work like that.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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TrippyJohnny
Inactive User
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445
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 22:00
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Detox you start to sound like a record going on repeat 
So basically you got no respect for people like me who started my own label because:
1. I have full control
2. I get recognised with the music I want to make
3. I get more gigs runing my own label (the sad truth)
4. I release music I like from friends (and non friends).
*I of course got tons of expertise and connections too*
http://www.peopleagainstpeace.net/ |
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DETOX
Moderator
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Posted : Feb 20, 2007 22:11
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Kristian the "small difference" between you though and some other people who want to start running a label is that you are part of this scene for more than 10 years so you got both the experience and the connections and i guess also an ammount of money to make things running and you didnt just set up a home label after being 2-3 years in this scene just to become famous and pretend to be a dj and manage to get some bookings and release your friends music.
Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
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1055
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 23:08
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Sound Surgeon
Crater / Mish-kah
Started Topics :
250
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2244
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 00:36
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On 2007-02-20 23:08, vegetal wrote:
Hmm and i thought compilations were made the same way as babies were
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from the birds?
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