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How compilations are made

vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect

Started Topics :  19
Posts :  1055
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 00:45
Quote:

On 2007-02-21 00:36, Sound Surgeon wrote:
Quote:

On 2007-02-20 23:08, vegetal wrote:
Hmm and i thought compilations were made the same way as babies were




from the birds?



No No No........ well......um... yes... Mr Stork!
          Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
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Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 01:31
@DETOX
Just because you don't earn big money doesn't mean that you cannot have a commercial intention, but I agree that it's somewhat strange that there exists a lot of artists and labels with a commercial approach considering the amount of money involved.
But to say that commercialism doesn't exist because there is not enough money in the scene is flawed logic and not a reflection or reality.

The thing I oppose to in your argument it that you think a label has to be "serious", and that you have the true definition of what that means.
Your definition will not be the same as others...for me a serious trance label is one that is run for the love of the music above all and that keep their obligations to the artists...that's all that is needed.
They don't need an office to be "serious", and IMO there is many labels I think is not serious that have all the prerequisites on your list.
The ones that run labels for money, fame or recognition is the ones that is not serious in my definition.

I have no office, my wife makes covers, I do mastering myself, I have a hosting account I need for business anyway, I do web development myself, I print CD's as they are ordered and mostly sell downloads, I have no office or employees, do only a little bit of promotion myself and don't maintain a legal company.
I couldn't care less about being classified as "serious", I do it because I enjoy it.

If I would operate according to the standards you think a label must operate under and still release the music I love I would most certainly not earn any money, and most likely instead pay a lot for running it. Maybe it would be "serious" to do like that, but above all stupid. By not being "serious" I take no financial risk and start getting a profit for the artists for the first sold copy, however small.

I like getting music I love out there, some people enjoy the music, and the artists are happy to get their music hosted and exposed even if I from the start make clear that the money they can expect is abysmal.
Who cares if it's "serious" or not...did anyone ask "how do you make a compilation that is serious according to the personal standards of DETOX"?

Just try to think about that not everyone have the same ideas about this scene as yourself and that there is different ways of running a label than the way you like to do it.
To be condescending towards anyone that doesn't think the same way as you comes across as somewhat arrogant, and I think that's what people react to. Just stick to explaining how you like to run a label without judging anyone who have a different approach as not "serious". Like I said...you do have some valid points and it's a shame they get lost in all that dravel.

@vegetal
Hehe...I guess even devilsminds evil little children is products from labour of love           (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)

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mk47
Inactive User

Started Topics :  118
Posts :  4445
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 09:47
interesting reading , anyway .. great going Spindrift ! , really like your idea / concept for resonant earth , and most of all the sound that you promote ..iv been a fan for long .. good 1
chong

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  227
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 13:36
Quote:

On 2007-02-19 19:41, Spindrift wrote:

Corrected your post for you.

If your in it for the money and think being serious is more important than enjoying and dealing with music you love, then you indeed need money and good connections.
If you happen to like commercial big names of course detox is right...no point releasing music you don't like because you cannot get the artists you like because of lack of funds or connections.




quality has a cost
Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  236
Posts :  6106
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 13:51
What is quality?
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 14:01
Quote:

On 2007-02-21 13:36, chong wrote:
quality has a cost


LOL....reading that kind of reasoning just cracks me up.
Are we talking about material objects or creative work here?

Because when it comes to creative work:

1) Quality is completely subjective. Just because more people like certain types of music one cannot say that it's better quality, infact I would say that often it's the opposite.

2) The cost of producing a piece of art doesn't in any way correlate to it's quality.

By applying the same reasoning to music as you do when comparing cars, Britney is a Rolls Royce according to you. She has more fans that appreciate her music than any trance artists will ever have and the music cost a lot to produce.
Pinnacle of quality in your opinion?           (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)

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chong

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  227
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 16:05
please allow me to LOL myself also, after reading all these common clichés
i just wrote 3 words and then u put your words in my mouth because u couldn't understand it properly...
i 've never said all that has a cost is quality sorry...
on the other side, quality without any cost is almost a fantasmatic concept these days.
i ain't talking about tastes as what u refers in your post...u may be able with a bit of musical culture, to recognize quality even if it doesn't fit your own tastes
i've never talked about quality of genres as u also referred because it's nonsense, although it's true that somes musical genres are more enclined to give no shit about quality...

artists such as extrawelt, minilogue, trentemoller, ritchie hawtin etc cost a lot because they make skilled music, forward thinking, huge sound ...u don't make that kinda stuff after 2 or 3 years playing with cubase and softwares sorry...
quality comes from the sound itself, to have a good sound quality u need gear, skills, and years of learning and practice...each one that comes to that level of skills will finally make money with his talent and technics,it is just obvious

electronic music is different from all the others music genres as the electro musicians will have to play both the musican and the engineer job...if u have only one of out two(as it is often the case in the trance music), u will end up with crappy results... good music with shitty sounds will not do the trick and same goes for good produced but non inventive music

combining both skills is a hard task, that 's why the ones that succed in doing it always end up making money with their music.what is rare is more expensive. period
Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 17:16
Quote:

On 2007-02-21 16:05, chong wrote:
i just wrote 3 words and then u put your words in my mouth


The three words you wrote was what I commented on....if you make a clear point and not be misunderstood maybe you have to get better at elaborating.

Quote:

quality comes from the sound itself, to have a good sound quality u need gear, skills, and years of learning and practice...


So because Britney has great production and some of the best producers in the business it's quality music for you?
Sure, it's quality production, but that doesn't make it good or interesting to listen to for me anyway...the quality of the music is far more important.

Quote:

combining both skills is a hard task, that 's why the ones that succed in doing it always end up making money with their music.what is rare is more expensive. period


There is plenty of artists IMO that is great producers as well as making great music that doesn't make money.
Again you confuse what is highly subjective and individual, quality of a creative work, with commercial viability and popularity.

Did not Mozart make quality music because he failed to gain enough popularity with his works during his life? Other composers at the time who better knew how to follow the current trends was making better music?
I would claim the opposite...he died poor because he was a true creative that couldn't care less about trends and wrote what came to him instead.

"What rare is expensive. period"
People in common don't have rare taste, so the music where the money is is the music that is the least rare.
Britney is expensive, but for sure not rare.
Again it seems like you are confusing physical commodities with creative works and that's a hopelessly flawed reasoning.           (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
chong

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  227
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 18:22
man it just seems u have absolutly not read what i wrote or maybe u just play dumb ...??
i don't have time to waste arguing with walls that only bother reading half of what i write.
u are just repeating yourself and i already answered you so have a nice day

btw we were talking about modern music if u didn't noticed...times changes , different times different rules and i guess mozart never had to deal with royalties, compilations ,neither copyrights so please stop with the silly comparaison and stick to the topic
but still i'd be curious to know a few names of your great wizzards of music and production that don't make money
vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect

Started Topics :  19
Posts :  1055
Posted : Feb 22, 2007 00:41
Here is the norm called quality of today







Cheers!           Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/
Rah
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  77
Posts :  498
Posted : Feb 22, 2007 04:36
I think there's some valid points from both ends of the spectrum but they are not being ID'd correctly. People are confusing 'quality' with fame. You can be famous, but you don't have to be good (although if you are famous, you are generally regarded as being somewhat good... or just extremely bad.) eitherway because people know you, you can charge a bit more next time you have gig or whatever... now coming from this assumption of quality & fame, good artists cost more money...

As for mozart, Spindrift, I thought he was quite recognized, his father was a musician for the court of king I-can't-recall-now and that's why he got such an early start on writing music and performing. I'm partly basing my knowledge on a comic/book i read as ayoung child and a simpsons episode, so it might not all be factual...
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Spindrift
Spindrift

Started Topics :  33
Posts :  1560
Posted : Feb 22, 2007 13:32
I base most of my knowledge about Mozart from the movie, Amadeus, which I guess might not be entierly factual either.
He might been well known, but he had difficulties pleasing he mecenats and audience many times, and his conflict between commercial and creative considerations was quite prominent theme of the film.

Maybe not the best example, but to say that since we are talking about modern music and that that conflict should not be present nowadays just goes to show that one have little understanding of the creative process and the commercial side of the industry.
Almost every artist will sometime let considerations about how many copies they can sell or gigs they can get interfere with their creative objectives.
That something that probably never will change.

How it works is that if you sell many copies you can command a higher price. You don't charge more for a CD because it's really high quality music, they all cost about the same.
So the equation quality=cost is thoroughly incorrect.
If you try claim that popularity=quality it just takes a brief look at what music is most popular to disprove that, I think most of us can agree on that.
It is popularity=cost and quality="whatever you personally think sounds good".

Basically trying to correlate quality of music to anything but your own subjective preferences is like arguing about taste.
For me quality trance music is often music that don't command a high price and most music that is expensive is run of the mill overproduced and bland.
For chong and DETOX it's maybe the other way around, and there is no right or wrong, it's different tastes.
          (``·.¸(``·.¸(``·.¸¸.·`´)¸.·`´)¸.·`´)
« .....www.ResonantEarth.com..... »
(¸.·`´(¸.·`´(¸.·`´``·.¸)``·.¸)``·.¸)

http://www.myspace.com/spindriftsounds
http://www.myspace.com/resonantearth
Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member

Started Topics :  236
Posts :  6106
Posted : Feb 22, 2007 13:43

Quote:

On 2007-02-22 13:32, Spindrift wrote:
I base most of my knowledge about Mozart from the movie, Amadeus,



There's a quote from the movie (which has a lot of fiction btw) that I really liked

The king complaints about Mozart’s music being to complex, he (the king) demands that Mozart must make more easy listening music because the humans ear doesn't have the ability to hear more then X notes. lol, I found it incredible funny. Because for many record buyers out there, this is an issue, they can't listen to Too complex music, because their ear cant receive all the info .. Anyway, good movie, I liked the quote (didn't write it correctly, but you get the point?). I haven't seen it in years, but now I think I will see it soon. I got it on DVD ^
chong

Started Topics :  0
Posts :  227
Posted : Feb 22, 2007 14:40
Quote:

On 2007-02-22 13:32, Spindrift wrote:

If you try claim that popularity=quality it just takes a brief look at what music is most popular to disprove that, I think most of us can agree on that.
It is popularity=cost and quality="whatever you personally think sounds good".





i hope you are not thinking about me when writing this ;) because once again i never said that, it is a misunderstood and a reducing of my comments
if not then excuse my egoistic paranoia :D
Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  168
Posts :  2984
Posted : Feb 22, 2007 22:13
Spindrift has totally lost the plot. Some trolls are thieves, but not all thieves are trolls.
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