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Hardware synths for psy prod.
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sento
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Nov 16, 2012 23:53:38
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Question is are the hardware synths a line above of the vsts for psytrance production?
And if they are, which r they?
I owned a lot of hardware synths that didn t help in the psy production while others with just vsts had more success...
So question remains: Apart from Viruses, Nord Leads and eventually Evolvers are any other hardware synths used successfully in psy? Not just for the sake of it, but for bringing an edge.
Thanks!! |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 17, 2012 00:21
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what matter more is acoustics and monitoring, that what set the bar or production , as something that sound very warm and phat if it s not well balanced even the most steril mix but with great balance will be considered as better production . specially guys than are used to that sound and don t mind it s thin with no dynamic and lifeless. to me not totally cause of loudness war, but i find lot of plugin synth sound like they have been raped by a limiter or a bad compressor even when dry , it just lifless and sterile and dont have the fullness of a good analog synth, lets not talk about the artifacts lot of plugins have...
so imo good monitoring, knowing it inside out + some good tools and it piss on lot of plugin production. have you heard some psy that sound really pro ? not me cause ,it s made with lot of compromise, trying to turn shit into gold but the first reason is monitoring there is no good mix wihtout good balance. |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 17, 2012 01:26
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not only monitoring but knowing the synths you use inside out could matter more than the synths themselfs .. all things equal better tools lead to better result though.
for synths there is so many ..one analog to use with plugins can be nice, but so much about taste...if you dont get the result you are after with nord and virus, that are typcal psytrance synth i m not sure the problem is the synths , but more monitoring and maybe knoning inside out the synths |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
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Posted : Nov 17, 2012 14:26
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Moog (Slim) Phatty. Cheap, sounds great, it can be smooth or it can be very aggresive.
You can add Moogerfoogers to it as you get more cash and dramatically expand the sound palette. From Ring mod, to analog flanger/chorus, phaser or a CP-251 to have semi modular capabilities (next on my to get list).
Although, if you owned a Virus and could not get the "standard" sounds that you hear in today's prog tracks, don't buy anything just yet, but learn more about synth programming.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 17, 2012 15:54
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slim phatty, sem pro and future retro xs , some Vas and plugins to cover everyhting ,some analog distortion saturation and fx with pedals like mooger foogers and other , that would be great set up, but if you want to sound more like everyone you can stick to plugins with maybe a virus but i think it s maybe not needed with synth like massive zebra sylenth and more, there is so many, dune z3ta.. all are very inspired by access sound . still insteed of buying 2 or 3 of these plugs i would rather get a virus, as it may still have the edge for lot of sounds and wont take any cpu |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
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Posted : Nov 17, 2012 16:14
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Yup, the Virus sounds like the very good soft synths around on the market today. Even though it has a deep mod matrix, a soft synth like Massive or Zebra, leaves it standing. It has its sound, like the Nord Lead has its sound, like Sylenth has its sound, but the main pro is that its a box with lots of knobs that I program by using my ears and focusing on what I listen and not by looking at a screen and clicking with the mouse.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
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5292
Posted : Nov 17, 2012 18:18
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sento
IsraTrance Junior Member
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88
Posted : Nov 18, 2012 09:06
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I have a Polar TI and an Evolver, and thinking of getting again a Nord Lead.
What I mainly meant was if there is some advantage soundwise, in production, using the hardware...
(I owned 2 Moogs, XS, Mopho, Tetra and a bounch of VAs... and I feel they were not that great for making the basic basses and sounds used in psy, and not sounded much better in production than vsts.. ) |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
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Posted : Nov 18, 2012 14:30
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strange man but after like i was saying there is some stuff than mattter more than the synth used , like monitoring and knowing well the synths you use and good production technic..all things equal better tools lead to better result tough.
for example i love my plugs for lot of sounds but also like the quality my xs brings.. the plugs can t really replace the xs and vice and versa, but that could be said for any synth more than hardware vs software, analog vs digital..all brings something different.
and there is also workflow that matter a lot.. also how a synth inspire you...if u are perfecrly happy with plugs stick with plugs imo, with all the fxs, processing tricks you can get very similar result than using hardware, but by experience i can tell you it s just "similar" if i use just my soft, or all my gears you will hear instanely in a track but after its taste.. you might like more the plugins one who know ,, i did a test with a friend and he enjoyed more the plugins as it sound more like what he is used to ear cause lot of producers use plugs so really about taste..i think we all like different things in sound, and are more or less sensible to some aspects of it. for me for example i really like clean and pure sound, with plugs it need processing to hide this, like eq, using fxs..so naturally i will enjoy more the purity of some analog synth and it will satisify me more |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
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5292
Posted : Nov 18, 2012 16:06
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Quote:
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On 2012-11-18 09:06, sento wrote:
I have a Polar TI and an Evolver, and thinking of getting again a Nord Lead.
What I mainly meant was if there is some advantage soundwise, in production, using the hardware...
(I owned 2 Moogs, XS, Mopho, Tetra and a bounch of VAs... and I feel they were not that great for making the basic basses and sounds used in psy, and not sounded much better in production than vsts.. )
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Ok. Don't buy anything but learn programming from the base up. The Polar TI is a good all around synth. I had it, but sold to get some analog gear and now I bought a Virus C that covers them nice plastik trance sounds.
Although my set up is a lot smaller that what I used to have in the UK, I get the best sounding and my favorite style of music now, but I am 5 years more experienced than when I had a massive analog modular, hardware tube and optical compressors, Eventides, Lexicons...etc. I have trained my self to mix, EQ and compress sounds (or not) better than when I had a room crammed with hardware.
So just relax, teach your self synth programming, instead of worrying about getting more synths, get a nice pair of monitors and see if you can treat your room acoustically so you have a good listen of what it is you are doing. The rest will come with practice and time.
Just make sure you enjoy your time in the studio, cause you'll be spending lots and lots of time in there.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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Gridlocker
Started Topics :
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Posted : Nov 20, 2012 09:46
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Fr Xs is one of the best synths i have owned , its great to make bread n butter sounds .. Bass??? is strong so are the Kicks and cranky drones , the envelope section is really good too.. that coupled with my A-100 and it becomes a beast! And i love the fact u cant make patches on them =))
And yea most of the psy basses are made in Vsts/Au's whatever cuz of the flexibility in Midi and sync , apart from the Virus thru USB i have never had perfect sync ups with my synths , they are always a few samples off , thats why u must record and sample them , atleast kicks and basses need tightening for sure =)
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
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1153
Posted : Nov 20, 2012 11:26
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its actually a good topic to think about. i would say it also depends what kind of sounds you want to use. for typical psy trance sounds, your bleeps and blops, your fx sounds and whatnot drenched in verbs and other mod fx it can be very hard to say if someone uses hardware or software. for me its like this:
software vs hardware digital:
only advantage is workflow with the nobs and shit. can make you delve more deep into the synth and play more than with the mouse. but depends if you can (and want) to get into the synths layaout. soundwise you will not be better with hardware digital synth. BUT there are some synths that have their sound, like the fm of a nordlead, its just there and its lotsa fun. you could get close to it in software with discovery or surge, but its not exactly the same.. so if you want a hardware digital synth for its special trick you might not find that again in the software real, but that does not mean the sound is "better".
software vs. analog
if you play an analogue synth and do use its filter extensively you will hear a difference to any software still. they are getting closer each time but not there yet (diva, lush101). so if you use hefty filter modulated stuff like 303 lines with a xoxbox or whatnot there is still a benefit in the analogue synth world. the sound is just "there". beware though, to fit your beloved hardware synth into a modern uberclean mix it will lose quite a bunch of its mojo..
thats why i find that other styles of music have much more profit of going analogue. in ambient or tech house you have slower rhytms and more space for the fat bottom end of a slim phatty or sem. you can hear the difference a lot more than with the short clicky basses used in psy.
so after all it depends what kind of music you make and what sounds you use the synths for as far as i am concerned. to have a better mojo in your sound it might be worth thinking about the following:
add an external analogue fx path to your setup and route your digital stuff through there. get an analgoue mixer or a nice channel strip or compressor to send you stuff through. that can actually make your overall sound more analogue than recording analogue hardware in the beginning if the sounds do not really show the potential of the hardware synths..
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel
"I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons |
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klippel
Stereofeld
Started Topics :
91
Posts :
1153
Posted : Nov 20, 2012 11:29
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oh yeah and of course a big +1 to nectarios statement about learning your synths right. if you are just preset browsing waiting for the magic to happen: it will never be like that..
all of what i have said is if you use the tools properly.
http://www.ektoplazm.com/free-music/stereofeld-frequenzwechsel
"I've always been a believer in musical repetition to draw in the listener and make the music hypnotic. Another thing I believe in is repetition." Alan Parsons |
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Nectarios
Martian Arts
Started Topics :
187
Posts :
5292
Posted : Nov 20, 2012 11:45
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If you post a track that you like the sounds in, maybe I could be more specific on what synths you need. In most (prog) tracks I hear soft synths now days. And a Virus. And you have them so like Klippel said, forget about presets, just learn subtractive synthesis and some basic FM synthetis.
http://soundcloud.com/martianarts |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Nov 20, 2012 12:23
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Quote:
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On 2012-11-20 09:46, Gridlocker wrote:
Fr Xs is one of the best synths i have owned , its great to make bread n butter sounds .. Bass??? is strong so are the Kicks and cranky drones , the envelope section is really good too.. that coupled with my A-100 and it becomes a beast! And i love the fact u cant make patches on them =))
And yea most of the psy basses are made in Vsts/Au's whatever cuz of the flexibility in Midi and sync , apart from the Virus thru USB i have never had perfect sync ups with my synths , they are always a few samples off , thats why u must record and sample them , atleast kicks and basses need tightening for sure =)
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yeah Xs is strong in the bass deparement imo, it s not moog but more on the roland side, it also perfect for goa /trance leads as is the phatty from what i heard of it, would love to have both !
btw do you have some tips on the Xs programing? i m new too it and discover new sweet spots / tricks every time i use it but i m sure their is plenty of great things to do with it i m not even thinking about yet |
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