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goodbye progressive! hello crossover!

Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  168
Posts :  2984
Posted : Dec 29, 2004 23:42
I'd say that's exactly what this is all about, but opinions will differ. If trance isn't intricate, tricky, engaging, and make you wonder how it was possible to achieve such an effect, then what's it for? Just dancing perhaps... and that's fine, but I know I prefer this music to have a cerebral edge to it.

I think Tim expounded this notion quite nicely with the last Zenon compilation... Krumelur, Praecox, and the Modus Operandi collaboration... well, that all fits those words precisely.
H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  16
Posts :  352
Posted : Dec 30, 2004 03:42
What's your cerebral edge about? Are you really think while listening? Music is about emotions not thinking. PPL think, think and think then comes something without notes, emotionless and mathematicly predicted.
Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  168
Posts :  2984
Posted : Dec 30, 2004 03:58
Why focus on just one thing? It's fairly easy to get feet moving... working on the brain and heart is a little more difficult. When you can get both, it's golden. A recent example would be Hux Flux - Equivalent Equations.
furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  1383
Posted : Dec 30, 2004 06:37
Indeed, H2O, music is about emotions. Except not all emotions are of the sappy feel good kind. Some emotions are raw, dont' make you feel warm, and force you to stop for a second and examine what is around and inside of you.
Schoenberg's music for example was anything but easy listening melodic music to make you feel good. The first couple of times you will listen to his atonal operas will not be extremely enjoyable. In fact, if you are suicidal, I don't suggest listening to them alone for the first time. However, once you enter Arnold's mind a little bit and see a bit of his vision, the music takes on a beauty that tonal music just cannot.
Another example of music that will mash your brain is Steve Reich. It is definitely in a league all by itself. The musical equivalent of Burroughs in my opinion. Definitely not background music and extremely hard to listen to, but once given a chance, it will change you and your perception of what music is forever.
Can trance do this to you?
Yes.
Will most trance do this to you?
Definitely not, but then again, most so-called avant-garde music won't either.
Schizm did that to me. I cannot listen to it too often, but when I do, it shows me that there is so much more to trance than has been seen so far.
This is also what Perspectives of... by Son kite did to me several years back. I remember how I hated it the first time I heard it, but is one of my favorite pieces of plastic now, one that defined my musical taste for years to come.
Sensient's Phobial is another prime example of what I am talking about here. Really cerebral and intricate music.           Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.

www.ganesha.ca
yossi
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  72
Posts :  1641
Posted : Dec 30, 2004 11:55
every 1 is giving here examples and names while im almost sure that if every member will have to define any music style u wont get much similar answers.


          if you want to be rich, u`ve got to be a bitch!
H2O
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  16
Posts :  352
Posted : Dec 30, 2004 13:37
Furthur, i know this feeling. I'm not sure it called thinking but feeling the music. I have such feeling when i listen to symphonic orchestra or some classical masterpiece. If Sensient does it to you, so prolly he is much much more than i think or your imagination is flawless.
Dance N Dust
Dance N Dust

Started Topics :  83
Posts :  419
Posted : Dec 30, 2004 13:57
i was shure progressive is back in to city agen
after 2 last years funely progressive is naw selles more and more cds then

in the full on is nothing new all sound like the same, same sound ,same bass line same bpm..

i also found some good house music in did but for me i dont catalog,trance, house...etc,, i jast love hearing good music
furthur
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  1383
Posted : Dec 30, 2004 17:49
Quote:

On 2004-12-30 13:37, H2O wrote:
Furthur, i know this feeling. I'm not sure it called thinking but feeling the music. I have such feeling when i listen to symphonic orchestra or some classical masterpiece. If Sensient does it to you, so prolly he is much much more than i think or your imagination is flawless.



Clearly comparing Sensient to Arnold Schoenberg was a bit rash, but out of all the psy out there, Phobial's style (i.e. no style per se) is the closest in feeling that you get imo. Some Finnish stuff will also turn you inside out sometimes.           Load Universe into Cannon. Aim at Brain. Fire.

www.ganesha.ca
goa-ganges
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  66
Posts :  594
Posted : Jan 2, 2005 11:24
Russ, if we look at the roots of today's psychedelic trance most of us would be surprised to discover that trance(and its sub-genres) came from techno, house and electronica, back in the 1980's. And these styles came from crossovers of 1970's disco, funk and new-age. I think that psy is evolving to something else - just like, for instance, Goa evolved from London's progressive house scene. I always like to recall Mike Maguire from Juno Reactor said back in 1994 to Id Magazine: "we are trying to push boundaries of trance forward".
And I've been to some house parties, and let me tell you...some tracks are much better than what we see in psy scene today.
But I disagree with you that progressive trance is dying. Major problem to me is that it's either too slow or not so melodic as it could be. I think that since prog producers should give a touch or space, nature and feelings that trance was all about in the Goa times. And since prog is the natural heir of the goa style (because it resembles goa more than full-on does), it would sound refreshed and I am sure it would please a lot of psy trancers that as you said are leaving the scene.

Peace and Love
Borris
IsraTrance Team

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  1581
Posted : Jan 4, 2005 01:08
you all will say I'm a blasphemer but Sasha Digweed and PVD are much closer to what we know as the classic Goa sound then 90% of todays psytrance.


diversity is the key to survival.           Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire!
Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  90
Posts :  2268
Posted : Jan 4, 2005 06:05
Some people listen to that funky housey groove with that deep throbing bass (worked for me around 2002 but got bored of it quickly). Some people look for emotions, some people split the music into melodies, beats and rhythms, some just flow with it and see what works for them. Crossover, progressive, full-on, bla, bla, blablabla.

I want to hear a set with Coil, Rino Cerrone, Autechre, The Delta, Anthony Rother (yes H2O, I'm a fan since I got hold of his Hacker album) and Plastikman early in the party, but instead I get fluffy-vibey-groovy stuff every single party I go to. I want intricate dark minimalism, why do no crossover DJs give that? You'd expect at least one openminded guy to go for the really dark stuff - but all the "crossover" DJs seem to base their stuff around housey grooves (starting with the most famous examples in the psytrance scene - Tsuyoshi Suzuki, Nick Taylor, D-Nox, etc).

Russ gave a valid point - most sets are too repetative and stick to one style. I'll add a point to this. The house-groove-oriented crossover thing seems to be the most conformist way to be a non-comformist. This is someone sticking his fingers in a dam about to crack open - a temporary solution, but plainly not enough.

I'll have to agree with Sensient said - we want those intricate details. We miss them. We like odd sounds, and things that aren't quite natural to understand. It's awesome when the DJ is not just one step or two steps ahead of the crowd but rather makes the entire crowd think "what the hell just happened here" when his set is over. I don't think the housier side of crossover is capable of doing this to a psytrance crowd (Buddha Source is one exception to this rule - one of his sets started from 125bpm tech house and with seemless technique moved all the way to SUN Project's 380 Volts within less than 45 minutes, and ended his set with Haldolium. There may be others, but I haven't heard them).          http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222
russ
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  35
Posts :  275
Posted : Jan 4, 2005 22:39
Hi Kaz,
Sounds like a great way to start a party for me too. Our party actually started this year with this kind of sound, with Arne from Midimiliz playing a dark elektro intro and then building into more powerful techno.
But there's a limit to how many different genres one dj can play before the set loses focus. In three hours you'll exhaust the floor if you cover everything. (A club environment gives more freedom I think to cover more styles, because the party is so much shorter, but outdoors there should be a journey through many genres planned out by many dj's.) So I don't mind if one dj sticks to a similiar style--what kills me is if one entire PARTY sticks to a style!
EYB
Noized

Started Topics :  111
Posts :  2849
Posted : Jan 5, 2005 00:30
Quote:

On 2004-12-30 13:37, H2O wrote:
Furthur, i know this feeling. I'm not sure it called thinking but feeling the music. I have such feeling when i listen to symphonic orchestra or some classical masterpiece. If Sensient does it to you, so prolly he is much much more than i think or your imagination is flawless.



Very true.            Signature
timsensient
Sensient

Started Topics :  101
Posts :  438
Posted : Jan 5, 2005 01:12
Quote:

On 2004-12-29 13:24, yossi wrote:
tim, sounds like u r looking for some nasty IDM and not trance music.





yep yur right im sure i would find some stuff that does it for me in the idm style (i have already actually), but i see no reason why there cant be the same intricate details and complex techniques in a track that will still work on the dancefloor.
Kaz
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  90
Posts :  2268
Posted : Jan 5, 2005 16:38
Amen Tim, amen.           http://www.myspace.com/Hooloovoo222
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