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Goodbye Chaos Unlimited!
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TrippyJohnny
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
445
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 15:06
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Nomolos(Zenon Rec.)
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
48
Posts :
2027
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 15:10
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DETOX
Moderator
Started Topics :
296
Posts :
6194
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 16:00
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I see that nobody ever answers to my examples so i think its about time this topic comes to an end.
I gave numbers,i gave facts,i gave examples but nobody bothered dealing with them,all i got back was insults and ironic comments,thankfully i didnt got bothered by them because like an aunt of mine used to say an insult is as serious as the person who throws it at you and fortunately i dont see many serious persons around otherwise someone would have bothered and prove me wrong with my examples.Ofcourse there is always the scenario where people make many posts so that some other posts will dissapear and stay behind so the others wont notice them but in good faith i will say that this is not the case in here,i hope so at least...
I am saying that 90% of the people that work just with a PC and a pair of ordinary speakers make bad music and all i get as an answer is that i should sue Steinberg because with its VST software it made it possible for average people to make quality music.I didnt know that Cubase could replace musical knowledge,talent,a pair of monitors and hardware,everyday i learn something new as it seems plus i seem to not be able to find all those artists out there who make quality music by just using their PC.Maybe i buy the wrong cds from the wrong internet shop and distributor,who knows...
Someone else mentioned that i insulted artists by name,i browsed all the pages of the topic and somehow i couldnt find any names at all mentioned and getting insulted,either i am blind or someone else is lying isnt that right dear ILSE?Even when i mentioned Skazi and Infected Mushroom names it wasnt to insult them but to say to someone that i am not a friend with them especially with Skazi.
Then we got the 'we copy paste what we like' phenomenon.Someone mentions that i should not participate anymore in this forum and speak my opinion around here because i cant pass my messages here and when i answer to him that i am part of this online community long time before he had even discovered internet (which is true by the way) i get someone copy pasting just my answer without reading why i answered like that to someone else and when another user asks him to read the whole think and not just what he likes then he asnwers "I did man thanks... But still there is no need for the disrespect...".Same thing happened when i mentioned somewhere in a very ironic and sarcastic way that "i dont give a fuck about my label" out from the whole paragraph people just kept this sentence and ignored the rest of the text,i guess that is very mature for someone to do...
Then we got people understanding that from the 11 pages everyone is against me you see people like Trippyjohnny,djmokhster,clown,full on,Dot Kite,Pavel,Hercules,Genijenajveci,Raoul V,Simon Post Forced,Yuli,Astral 699,Datakult and others dont count as people in this forum.Maybe if Yuli,Dot Kite,Raoul V and Pavel made ten posts a day in this topic like people like Superman,Pixan and Dennis are doing then there would be some opposition...
And because like someone said there is a scene outside this forum i would like to add that there is also ANOTHER SCENE INSIDE THIS FORUM where respectable artists,established labels and normal users share the same opinion with me but because they dont want to end up getting insulted and receiving ironic comments towards them,"consequences" as Dennis baptised the whole situation taking place against me from people that cant debate but just throw insults here and there not that i care about it but some other people do and dont want to participate in this topic and maybe even hurt their image,so you see not everyone has the time and nerve and patience to share his opinion especially when he doesnt want to deal with these "consequences" as you call them Dennis.I wish that all these people would come and say in public what they say to me in private then we would see how many are against me and my words and how many have the same ideas as i do.
I will just copy paste some words by a PM i received this morning by another user of this forum whose name i wont mention just to show you how the rest of the users in this forum feel.
"Hey there, dont think weve spoken or even traded opinons on threads in here, but after reading some of your comments in Dark psy is Crap thread i just had to and for as much of it as i could actually get through (4 pages out of 12 before my head hurt) i totally share your viewpoint on preety much all of it.... i just usually dont post outside my regional forum, and its always nice to see someone else that can put his thoughts to the front like an acomplished debater...."
Like i said before i just wished that all the users,artists and label managers like this one here would tell their opinion loud maybe then people would get a clearer picture on whats going on.
Anyway just like Dado told me some time ago sometimes its better to get lost into the crowd than standing in front of it and shout because that makes you an easy target,i feel that this topic reached its peak and that i said what i have to say so its about time i get lost withing the crowd along with people like the user who send me this personal message in the morning.
  Toodaloo Motherfuckers!!!!! |
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vegetal
Vegetal/Peacespect
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
1055
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 16:22
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Detox: Just one question why are you so attached to your 90%, are thoose numbers carefully calculated or just pulled out of the ass?
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| I am saying that 90% of the people that work just with a PC and a pair of ordinary speakers make bad music and all i get as an answer is that i should sue Steinberg because with its VST software it made it possible for average people to make quality music |
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We all know that in order to drive a car you got to use your feet to push the accelerator and brake pedals plus to move your hands in order to move the wheel BUT in order to drive the right and safe way we all must attend driving lessons otherwise sooner or later we will crash on the road,some of us might be lucky enough and avoid being involved in an accident but 90% of the people will most probably crash due to lack of knowledge and experience on driving a car the proper way. |
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Just need to know if theese are included in your "facts & numbers" Demand recognition for the Armenian genocide 1915
http://www.devilsmindrecords.org/
http://www.myspace.com/vegetalmusic
http://www.checkpoint-music.com/ |
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keystone
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
10
Posts :
140
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 17:04
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[quote]
On 2006-09-06 16:00, DETOX wrote:
i get someone copy pasting just my answer without reading why i answered like that to someone else and when another user asks him to read the whole think and not just what he likes then he asnwers "I did man thanks... But still there is no need for the disrespect..."
I MEANT EVERYONE TALKING THIS INMATURE CRAP>>>> IN GENERAL>>>> WHICH MEANS NOT ONLY YOU BUT EVERYONE!!!! If you cannot understand this, Then Im sorry... I dont just "flap my yap" to insult PPL nor do I take sides....I'M probaly almost twice your age and been doing dance music scince 85' as a dj!!! I love dance music I live my life aruond it and seen it change time and time again. Now I produce and am happy to produce!! I get to give back to the scene what the scene has given me. The reason why I am saying this is because you started this drama and when are you gonna to stop this!!!! Now for the whole disrespect thing I was hoping you could dig a little deep in yourself... and ask why am I doing this (music, lable ect...) We are, as in all of us, We have the privlage to give PPl joy, get them to dance, send them home with a smile on their face, have them come to you and say, MAN YOU MADE MY DAY!!! Its not about lables and all this crap!!! No one can controll the scene, the scene is always evolving...someone mentioned either evolve or die this is true, so true. Lucky me I survived  One thing I can say is everything is by EXSAMPLE.... So the next question is, are we making a good exsample here... If you started this.... Then ofcourse PPL direct comments that YOU said to you.... Thats all man... Now pass the chillums.. 
Shut up and dance... |
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
593
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 17:51
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This thread needs to be locked indeed.
DETOX, although I disagree with your theories on the current decline of the scene I respect them. But I'm just curious as to what kind of reaction you were expecting when you openly JUDGE and CRITISIZE other people's musical taste.
Ok, we understand, you and your herd do not like fast psychedelic, low-production trance. We get it. Different strokes for different folks. I don't listen to a lot of it myself.
However, it is disrespectful to others and against the spirit of this forum to begin to CONDEMN the music which you hate so much, the associated sub-culture and the people involved as the reasons why the shit hits the fan or why your sales are down or some other cold sore (metaphorically  ).
I understand you have issues with the current economic situation. Maybe you can write letters to the major distributions and plead your case. I don't think it will amount to much because they are not in the business of TASTE CONTROL or CENSORSHIP, I believe they just want to distribute music they believe in and hopefully turn a profit.
We also disagree on the shop/distribution relationship. I personally know of 2 stores in Paris that do not function the way you described. In the food chain that is the music industry the SHOP is always king. All cultural media in France (CDs, Bandes Dessinées, Books...) are ordered by shops WITHOUT payment, and only after 2-3 months does payment actually occur, and/or restrocks or sendbacks. I think this is the model for the US and the UK so please I would like to hear how it works with Greece. Are there greek psy shops? |
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Dennis the menace
DevilsDennis Sparris McHilton
Started Topics :
128
Posts :
2899
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 19:42
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I wish that all these people would come and say in public what they say to me in private then we would see how many are against me and my words and how many have the same ideas as i do.
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Yes lets all go to greece just to bash you.
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And because like someone said there is a scene outside this forum i would like to add that there is also ANOTHER SCENE INSIDE THIS FORUM where respectable artists,established labels and normal users share the same opinion with me but because they dont want to end up getting insulted and receiving ironic comments towards them,"consequences" as Dennis baptised the whole situation taking place against me from people that cant debate but just throw insults here and there not that i care about it but some other people do and dont want to participate in this topic and maybe even hurt their image,so you see not everyone has the time and nerve and patience to share his opinion especially when he doesnt want to deal with these "consequences" as you call them Dennis.
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First of all you where insulting ALOT of ppl. Check your first post in this thread aswell as your others, check the other threads about dark psy aswell if you cant remember.
Second, are you saying that the users who are against you in this thread aint normal?
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Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
168
Posts :
2984
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 23:45
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For what it's worth, Detox has made a lot of good points in this thread (and a few others). I will also chime in and say I haven't wanted to get involved simply because some of you are acting like such defensive little kids. So he doesn't like 160bpm mock-satanic psytrance. Big deal. Suck it up. He's not wrong to say there's a lot of that shit around these days, that most of it is poor quality, and it is diluting the market for people trying a more serious approach that includes properly paying and promoting artists. There are real artists in the dark psychedelic vein, sure enough, and perhaps Detox is being unfair to generalize about the select few who aren't just fucking around. But this isn't being argued - angry people are just getting into his character, trashing his label, and making baseless allegations en masse. Attacking the man instead of arguing the point, essentially. No wonder few others want to get involved. |
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Pavel
Troll
Started Topics :
312
Posts :
8646
Posted : Sep 6, 2006 23:50
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You know i really tried to dig that dark psy thingie. I really tried, i am really open minded and i have many friends that stuck in this web. They are mostly reasonable men, can't say they are more drugged or more deranged... Can't say if it's the education, the mistreatment in school/army/whatever... Seem normal people, as much as people that hear this kind of music can be. But i just can't hear much music there, much logic, progression, variation, groove or anything that drew me into goa/psy trance in the first place.
Just lots of noises over fast rhythm and a full on bassline. I don't get it, i really don't. It makes my head explode. I hope i don't hear that shit in indoor party. That could be my end.
As somebody mentioned before you don't need more than inspiration and brilliant ideas to make great music. Cosma did it, Shiva Shidapu did it (it was really amusing though, to hear those dirty kick drums) and yea, it's a fucking old but the Beatles recorded Sergeant Pepper on 4 track, so Detox, please... I have the utmost respect for Dado, i have 2 albums of his and his sound is beyond what this scene deserves right now but his best music was made years years ago before he had his polished trademark sound. And the same goes to sooo many artists. I can hear the Synthetic album hours and enjoy his little tricks on the low frequencies and appreciate the balls he has to do what he does, but he'll never top Reload and Land of Freedom and everybody knows that.
Everyone in the world is doing something without me |
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neuromantik
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
593
Posted : Sep 7, 2006 00:26
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On 2006-09-06 23:45, basilisk wrote:
For what it's worth, Detox has made a lot of good points in this thread (and a few others). I will also chime in and say I haven't wanted to get involved simply because some of you are acting like such defensive little kids. So he doesn't like 160bpm mock-satanic psytrance. Big deal. Suck it up. He's not wrong to say there's a lot of that shit around these days, that most of it is poor quality, and it is diluting the market for people trying a more serious approach that includes properly paying and promoting artists. There are real artists in the dark psychedelic vein, sure enough, and perhaps Detox is being unfair to generalize about the select few who aren't just fucking around. But this isn't being argued - angry people are just getting into his character, trashing his label, and making baseless allegations en masse. Attacking the man instead of arguing the point, essentially. No wonder few others want to get involved.
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Hey I don't think I remember anybody trashing Exposure Productions or saying that the music he promotes is bad. I personally like Jaia + Silicon Sound + Even11 and the rest not so much but I always refrain on making comments on what Detox decides to promote.
I just don't understand what happened to our scene where suddenly diversity in music is condemned and taste and musical quality is dictated by people. The reason I believe it is important to speak out is because Mr. Detox is making claims that are hurtful to many artists and labels. Claims such as:
- How the darkpsy scene is "polluting" the scene,
- How up and coming artists with limited means should refrain from releasing music and let only the tried and tested "dinosaurs" enjoy that privilege,
- How fast music has suddenly become synonymous with bad music,
- That production quality is more important than creativity.
Here are the facts as I see them, please Mr. Detox correct me if I'm wrong. He along with many people do not enjoy listening to "Darkpsy". Fine. I know I and many others won't lose any sleep because of this. Now what I believe is the issue that is pissing him off as well as Mr. Clown is that:
- Small darkpsy labels do not pay their artists well, if anything,
- Mr Detox pays handsomely for his music, runs a tight ship and keeps his operation very professional,
- All in all, sales of Exposure Productions have gone down following the current trend of the music industry,
- Smaller labels if they are lucky break even, and if they aren't dissolve after their first release(s) and are replaced immediately.
Yes this sucks for the psy-economy. We should congratulate ourselves. We have just joined all the other underground musical communities in what is a UNIVERSAL problem. Believe me the same is happening in Jungle/DnB/Death Metal/EBM/House/Italo Disco/Gabber/Hard Techno. You think there are a lot of psy releases which suck? Why don't you check out the Minimal House vinyl scene, there are like 80+ releases a week constantly, and the quality of production is often questionable.
Is there a solution? Probably not, it is only natural that people be drawn to contribute to something they love, even if they aren't able to. |
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TrippyJohnny
Inactive User
Started Topics :
2
Posts :
445
Posted : Sep 7, 2006 00:53
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On 2006-09-07 00:26, neuromantik wrote:
Hey I don't think I remember anybody trashing Exposure Productions or saying that the music he promotes is bad.
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Try to read some of the many posts that flame him again. I know it's a lot of posts and I probably would not bother. But if you do you might think again
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- How the darkpsy scene is "polluting" the scene,
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No one said anything about that darkspy are the only ones that "polute" (weird term) the scene (we can disagree on the symbols it use though). But it's a fact that there's a lot of very poor quality darkpsy out there. Both musically and productionwise. Of course just as in any other genre even though I dare to say that darkspy attract a bit more unexperinced musiscians and producers that might just would benefit from working a bit longer in their studios before theý release their music (as any musician would). As we all hopefully did when we first started out.. I know i worked many years before i even got a first release.
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- How up and coming artists with limited means should refrain from releasing music and let only the tried and tested "dinosaurs" enjoy that privilege,
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They should not be restrained from anything.. But as I wrote before....maybe hold their horses and find their own sound and a bit better production skills before they jump on the release wagon.
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- How fast music has suddenly become synonymous with bad music,
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No not at all.. But let's face it. There's a lot of unexperienced artists these days that jump on the fast bpm wagon.. And again I dare to say it's much harder and require much more musical skill and technical knowledge to produce music that require less sounds simply because a bad sound stand out much more in a slow less "layered" track than if it's in a frenzy high bpm track where a lot of frequenzies and bad quality sounds drown because there's a limited amount of room between the beats.
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- That production quality is more important than creativity.
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No not at all. BUT let's be real. People do pay money for the music (those who buy it) so they should also be allowed to expect to get some level of production quality. Afterall when you sell your music to labels you are no longer considered an amature but a professional artist. If you can not deliver a ok production quality because you lack the basic skill or knowledge then maybe as i said before you need to hold your horses a little until you know more about production techniques - unless it's on purpose that you like the soundquality to be real crappy
This goes for anybody no matter music genre.
http://www.peopleagainstpeace.net/ |
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clown
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
97
Posts :
1777
Posted : Sep 7, 2006 01:09
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On 2006-09-07 00:26, neuromantik wrote:
Now what I believe is the issue that is pissing him off as well as Mr. Clown is that:
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Not really man..
What bothers me is to see labels that really put everything they have got into there releases (money included) struggling to sell enough CD's to get even half there investement back, competing against labels that are just releasing for the heck of it.
Whats bugging me is that the client walks into the psytrance store and gets fed the new releases (which almost all sound like garbage) and ends up buying the latest Paul Oakenfold CD insted... ONLY BECAUSE WHAT HE HEARD WAS CRAP.. and now he has this wierd impression about psytrance and wounders if he's really going to attend the IM party..
capiche? hehe..
and yeah, i hate darkpsy with a passion.. Much like Pavel, it gives me headacks and sounds more like Speedcore than psytrance really.. ohh, but they have acid leads... (vomits)
p.s.s i dispise acid techno equally to darkpsy..  but now, my tastes should not have anything to do with this.
"VA - REWIRED" OUT NOW !! (techtrance invasion) ---> http://forum.isratrance.com/viewtopic.php/topic/86303/forum/9
http://psy.techno.fm <------- Jester Records's Internet Radio channel
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Noise Poison Records
Noise Poison Records
Started Topics :
28
Posts :
579
Posted : Sep 7, 2006 08:19
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spinach ..... tomatoes .... meat .... potatoes ... salat ... made good made bad ... it's just about taste ...
only thing I remind here is .... Punk and Rock still exists with its multible subgenres also .. and there was this discussion before .. we just have the internet now, to achieve more attention ...
I just came out, cause it seems there was a noise outside ! .... added to Parvati Records rooster .. check webside !!!
http://www.parvati-records.com
http://www.noise-poison.com
http://www.myspace.com/dj_ilse |
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piXan
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
107
Posts :
807
Posted : Sep 8, 2006 06:34
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you all guys talk about the cd consumer as mindless stupid zombies!! me and all people i know really know what to expects from labels and artists. This whole thread is insulting for the most important aspect of the psy music business. no its not the artists or the labels. its the consumer, and all these comments about the inability from them to dsitinguish the music they are after its just too much. makes me wanna dl from p2p!
www.soundcloud.com/elektroakustica/sets/downtempo/ |
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MetaHyde
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
14
Posts :
159
Posted : Sep 8, 2006 09:26
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On 2006-09-06 16:00, DETOX wrote:
I am saying that 90% of the people that work just with a PC and a pair of ordinary speakers make bad music and all i get as an answer is that i should sue Steinberg...
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how 90%? is that much? Where u learn this?
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everyday i learn something new as it seems plus i seem to not be able to find all those artists out there who make quality music by just using their PC. Maybe i buy the wrong cds from the wrong internet shop and distributor,who knows...
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yea, maybe...you dont have time to listen all the cds one day, or even the rest of your life.
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Then we got the 'we copy paste what we like' phenomenon.the way).... i get someone copy pasting just my answer without reading why i answered like that to someone else and when another user asks him to read the whole think and not just what he likes then he asnwers "I did man thanks... But still there is no need for the disrespect...".Same thing happened when i mentioned somewhere in a very ironic and sarcastic way that "i dont give a fuck about my label" out from the whole paragraph people just kept this sentence and ignored the rest of the text,i guess that is very mature for someone to do...
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Well, you said "Someone"....so it is not a "phenomenon", and i think most of the people have read the whole article;) I believe you have your own right in talking, and btw, i think Dennis is right.
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"Hey there, dont think weve spoken or even traded opinons on threads in here, but after reading some of your comments in Dark psy is Crap thread i just had to and for as much of it as i could actually get through (4 pages out of 12 before my head hurt)
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"Darkpsy is Crap" thread?! where?
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For me, i believe it is a circle. We have a beginning, a high peak, then comes destruction or revolution. And i believe that "ppl who make 160bpm psytrance have bad quality" isnt just the only reason for this scene. It is just you OWN opinion. There are too many reasons involve and u take too personally. In my opinion, yea, some ppl have not mature their skills or production, but they got great ideas Ideas bring us to the next new era.
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Anyway just like Dado told me some time ago sometimes its better to get lost into the crowd than standing in front of it and shout because that makes you an easy target...
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It is. but you are not there yet. |
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