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end of "legal" goa parties in swiss?
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Slimseth
IsraTrance Junior Member
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198
Posted : Jun 22, 2005 16:16
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Yes I Frakas,
I think that the over-sized and un-controlled drug usage in OUR parties (because unfortunately we are ALL concerned as organizers...) is a real issue for us.
This big potential dealing market attracts dealers and other shit people like this whatever the party.
I really hate dealers, they do business in our parties, are not there to have fun nor to listen to artists and sometimes even do not want to pay the entry... On top of this they are also the first to complain about the party!! Plus they sell shit to people in the gig and then leave these guys in their shit and the organization with the responsibility of these cokeheads. They do not care about our fellow freaks; they want to sell as much as possible and then the hell with their "clients". They are the Cancer of our tribe.
I just wish this so called "free culture" that we believe in could get rid of all these rats!
To quote what Psyberpunk was telling me some time ago, this consumption was apparently not that common and enormous in a not so far past... Why is this???
Is it that drug consumption has become to easy and obvious in our parties that people just find it natural to have lots of drugs (and dealers) everywhere? How do we want to be seen as serious and responsible persons if at each party we need to have first aid just because some assholes can't behave and harm themselves instead of enjoying?
I also want to say that in my opinion some organizers have been fucking with the devil...
I do not want to have any judgment about the festival you did Mercury Fall, but I also had been told that the police had caught some organizers drug dealing!! Come on guys!!!
If the organizations can't see this is a dead-end and start doing this shit things to make money then maybe it is not that bad if there gig fucks up and disappear...
I know Psy music is psy music and wised people will have no problem with a recreational consumption, and this is fine because we must be free of choice if we are responsible... But what about all these guys that can't behave and finish like vegetables at the end of the gig???
They are fucked up (if not dead), the organization is blamed and the dealers make their money... this is not the way it should ever be!!!
I also some times take something ;-) but as Gaspard says "a little of anything can't be that bad, but a lot of whatever is a dangerous behavior".
If we know how to behave it is cool for us; But I think that we should take care of all our younger brothers who still do not know where there limit is and who should first learn to love the parties for the mix (music, show, deco, people...) and not for the dope. Elevation trough education! , and this in all subjects of life (even drugs...)
Limiting the access to these products is not going to affect wised users (as we know how to get it and how to use it...) but will keep un-prepared people from trying things without having prepared themselves for the trip.
If Psy-trance claims to have roots in Shamanism and ancestral practices, one should always keep in mind that these forms of trance (where psy products are used to connect with the world of spirits) are accessible only to people who have followed an initiation by a wised person to be prepared to the experience!!!
Drug dealers are not shamans, they have now knowledge but knowing how to calculate benefits for them!
Now concerning the size and legality of the gigs I think there are two sorts or gigs and each of them has its own requirements; we should avoid comparing them as so much things opposes them:
The "small parties" that Psyberpunk and Mercury Fall are talking about (with ideal size of 200-300) are more local tribe gathering and do not need to be legal nor to have international line-up to be really cool gigs. These parties are the "everyday soul" of our community, they are like our churches, the place were we go to stay in touch with our roots and should never be depending on any authorization... Stay roots, stay underground.
But there also are the "big gatherings", with international line-up (music, visuals, shows...), accommodation (camping, stands...)... These parties happen a couple of days per year and are like a pilgrimage where we meet tribes from all over the globe.
These ones are more complicated to create because of all the planning, organization and logistic that is behind and need to be legal (location, security, first aid...).
They also are the ones with the most drug issues since the potential market for dealers is much bigger than in a 200-person party...
I do not think we should change much in the small gigs, and in this I agree with most of you : Let's stay underground, let's remain friends gathering for good moments here and then.
What I do believe is that if we want to develop further this magnificent movement and make sure it includes as much as possible of the worldwide tribes we need places that can host these tribes, and we need to offer them a minimum of facilities. Need to go over seas need to go Overground 
So we need to be legal! Accepted not, but tolerated by the legislator. We need to keep the dealers out because they are the main source of problems during those gigs; they sell anything to anyone and do not give a shit if the guy will be able to handle it.
To conclude if we cannot be tolerated here even while trying to be legal then lets go party elsewhere (when we are not doing small gigs I mean...)!!
The world is sooooooo big and our movement is growing everywhere - every day...
Peace and Unity
Slim
ps: got it even longer this time |
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atlanticark
Started Topics :
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77
Posted : Jun 23, 2005 13:53
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well interesting topic you have there guys
For what it's worth here's my opinion.
Last year i was lucky enough to join a party on the swiss alps. I think it was thrown by a team called Stonehead. I ve been to a few places for parties all over Europe but this one was simply extraordinary. The location was stunning the music was top-notch and the crowd was well up for it. It was not a big party. I 'd say about 400 people attended. But it was definetely a blast as the combination of music, location and people created one of the most memorable vibes i had ever experienced.
Overwhelmed as i was with Switzerland i decided to go to another party there. this time it was Geometrix. The location was again nice, not as good as the previous one though, but the vibe was much less engaging. There were about 2000 people who left the place in ruins!!!. After the fest there were garbage all over. And during the party it was more a case of a hedonistic night out rather than a peacuful gathering.
I guess the argument is old: Big fests Vs Small family-like parties. I would definetely go for the latter one.
However it would definetely be a pity if no parties were ever to happen in Switzerland again. |
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Psyberpunk
Psyberpunk
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233
Posted : Jun 23, 2005 23:40
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i agree with you atlanticark!! your exemple is a really good exemple !!!
definitivly the best size is 2-300 people .. some time it's still amazing with 500 people .. but upper the tribal energy is lost...
hello Slim long topic .. but i know that unfortunatly you had this problem
with ambulance at your last party cause someone freak out, cause a stupid dealer sell him bullshit ..
and so i understand your point of view about dealers !
i've got a similar one:
a dance floor is not a drug store !! not at all !!!!
it's a sacred area where it must be no money bullshit ...
your question : why it was less "zombie" at the end of the party in the past?
i think cause at this time the people were really coming AT FIRST for music !!!! now it's more a fashion
but about your quote:
The "small parties" that Psyberpunk and Mercury Fall are talking about (with ideal size of 200-300) are more local tribe gathering and do not need to be legal nor to have international line-up to be really cool gigs.
i totally disagree ;o)
our best party were familly open air in the "valais" mountains between 95 and 2000 ..
most of time around 200 people... but 80% of partypeople were not coming from "Valais" ;o)) even half of them were coming from outside switzerland (france, south germany, north italy) .. and we had each time a interntionnal guest, like mark allen, dimitri nakov, yazz, medicine drum, ...
So, it's possible to do small party, but quality party.
this is what we call a "real party"..
party people coming from really far..driving hours and hours
to reach a secret place where they will meet some other freaks that are there for the same main reason :
having a wonderfull magic night of dance
in a magic natural place,
with magic music !!! ..
so a 200 people party don't mean a party with the 200 young guys of the next village! ..
it's mean : HIGH selection !!!
best way it's giving the flyer only hand to hand : so you know to who you give it !!
a lost far magic place !! : a really efficient FILTER against "ousiders" ;o) ...
and a high energy line up .. and yeeeehaaaa
anyway .. long life to real spirit party :o))
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MercuryFall
IsraTrance Full Member
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52
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711
Posted : Jun 24, 2005 12:03
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hey Slim, and all the others!
re-dealers and use of drugs: there will always be dealers. Dealers are not the problem. Irresponsible use of drugs is the problem. If some cokehead freaks out in your party because some dealer sold him drugs, the cokehead is responsible for his behaviour. Not the dealer! A dealer never force people to buy things or overuse his products! Now, i've seen assholes dealers just like you described in your post. and I also met very cool tribe guys that also happened to be dealers. A person is a person before he's a dealer, a DJ, a cook or anything else.... If a guy is fucked up at the end of a gig, let himself be blamed for his misconduct. Our duty there is just to remain humans and offer assistance, but I stress that no dealer is responsible for that!!
re-festival: actually, no one in our "organization" was caught drug dealing, so that must be another party your heard of!
re-education: totally agree!! The best we can do is to provide informations about drugs, so some of the youngster dont come and make heavy consumption of whatever is on sale! So I value the work of organizations like eve'n'rave or even prevteck (however how pissed i've been to them because of their responsabilities in heavy media coverage of the goa scene as a drug scene)that distribute accurate flyers giving accurate informations about each drugs so that people not yet in the known have an opportunity to minimize risks and know what to expect.
As for "big gathering of the tribes", that was exactly what my partner on the Independance used to talk about all the time, when his only goal was to have like 3.000 tribe members multiplied by 60 euros...
So I remain cautious with this concept... Of course, things like the Boom Festival, Omni or Full Moon or others in Australia or Brasil or Japan really have their places on our scene. But I'm not sure how many of these events we really need...
Peace!
 V/A Floating Mirror - OUT NOW - with Celles, Midimal, Electrypnose, Melodix, Troll Scientists, Yab Yum, Gaspard, Ajja, Cradle of Beats! Info on
http://www.myspace.com/moonlooprecords
http://www.psyshop.com/shop/CDs/mol/mol1cd001.html |
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Slimseth
IsraTrance Junior Member
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198
Posted : Jun 24, 2005 15:45
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Hello my Fraka friends,
I agree with you Psyberpunk that the best gigs are not allways the bigest (for the points you give actually). And this it took me some time to understand it ;-)
For the comment on dealers that you made Mercury Fall I understant your point; Dealers don't fuck up people, it is the people that fuck up themselfs... But this is the same kind of thinking than when one says guns don't kill people it is the guy that presses the triger that kills the people...
Ok but so what?? At the end of the day we still have these guys doing BUZINESS in our gigs and allowing un-prepared persons to get fucked up and give our movment a shitty image. I feel it a bit too easy to say it is all the coonsumer's responsability or that because we give information we do our part of the work.I do not think that just giving info about drugs is of any help in a party (who cares about good thing/bad thing in a gig after a couple of drinks??)if you let all dealers in.
Another point is that I never saw a dealer saying "sorry but I will not sell you more because I think you had enough" to one of his client and by doing so having a responsible attitude toward another human beeing. Why is that? Where is the assistance in this case? Doesn't the dealer knows he is over-dosing the freak? Why should we, as organizers, need to be responsible for this fucked-up freak that got in this state because of the dealer's greed? I just don't get this, to me it is non-sens.
And I do not want to say to people "if you can't handlle drugs don't come to the gig" cause I find this way of thinking insane and dangerous. One should be able to enjoy psy music with AND without drugs.
Unfortunatelly I am affraid that as Psyberpunk says people more and more come to these parties now and consume drugs because it becomes a fashionable thing to do!
I really feel sad for these people who always need to take something to trip in the gig. And even more sorry for those who come to take as much shit as they can handlle (without often knowing how much they can handlle!!!)
Natural energy, adrenaline and positive vibes are the body's own drug and are not used enough by our comunity anymore :-(
Peace and Unity
Slim
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pete
IsraTrance Junior Member
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32
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534
Posted : Jun 24, 2005 21:05
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Very interesting thread...I plan to attend the dark party at the end of July and my understanding is that it will be legal (since I understand the organizers are going through gov bureaucracy to secure the location) in light of this thread I'm quite curious as to the number of people, the vibe, police, etc...(although most of all I just can't wait to see the lineup )
And just to throw in my two cents, out of my four favorite parties, they range from a good thousand to about five hundred to about 100 people attending, the vibe was top notch at all of them. I'm sure we've all been to sub-par parties that had 1-300 people as well. Not to say size isn't a big factor with negatives as the number of people increases, but it isn't a totally determining factor of course. (I generally find I prefer at least 300 just because I enjoy the sensation of being one of many responding to the music together.
-pete |
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MercuryFall
IsraTrance Full Member
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711
Posted : Jun 25, 2005 11:48
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-24 15:45, Slimseth wrote:
Why should we, as organizers, need to be responsible for this fucked-up freak that got in this state because of the dealer's greed? I just don't get this, to me it is non-sens.
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Well, we are not responsible!!! But the least we can do is take care of the freaked out guy and not let him down when he's panicking or in need of assistance. That's why it's cool to have an organization like eve'n'rave at a gig. Because you're just NOT ABLE to control the drug situation. If you know of a dealer who is an asshole and you see him in your party, you can try and throw him out. But in any cases, there will always be overdosed freaks in need for assistance. As an organizer, i want to look after them so they're not let down... Personnaly, just like you, i enjoy a "little something" now and then, but to most of the parties i attend, i only use music, hash (or grass) and good vibes
To Pete:
Welcome to Switzerland! Enjoy psy hospitality ;-)
Peace!
V/A Floating Mirror - OUT NOW - with Celles, Midimal, Electrypnose, Melodix, Troll Scientists, Yab Yum, Gaspard, Ajja, Cradle of Beats! Info on
http://www.myspace.com/moonlooprecords
http://www.psyshop.com/shop/CDs/mol/mol1cd001.html |
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dymons
Dymons
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62
Posted : Jul 14, 2005 15:22
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I love to dance on a 100Kw Sound System from time to time and seeing djs and live acts from all over the world !
I have seen this in various countries and have had the feeling of a intertribal gathering with a few thousand brothers and sisters dancing around the floor.
Switzerland has a reputation of beeing "too clean" around the world yet still you see the day after certain events
that look like a dump...no matter how big the gig.
I've seen parties in Australia with a few thousand people
and barely any trash on the ground the day after.
I don't think it has to do with size, legal or illegal but rather with the awareness of the people who attend...
As of drugs, they've been part of the human experience since before our history can remember...
Is one of the aims of Trance help those who choose so to become more Aware and Conscious ?
Or just another wasteland...
www.elestialmusic.org
www.myspace.com/danielsymons
www.myspace.com/cosmosophy
www.myspace.com/thelightshifter
www.myspace.com/crystalmonkey |
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gaspard
Yab Yum
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50
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641
Posted : Aug 25, 2005 01:46
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Quote:
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On 2005-06-24 15:45, Slimseth wrote:
At the end of the day we still have these guys doing BUZINESS in our gigs and allowing un-prepared persons to get fucked up and give our movment a shitty image. I feel it a bit too easy to say it is all the coonsumer's responsability or that because we give information we do our part of the work.I do not think that just giving info about drugs is of any help in a party (who cares about good thing/bad thing in a gig after a couple of drinks??)if you let all dealers in.
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one major, unaswered question still remains: would people still come to parties if there were no dealers?? is the music enough? the deco?
can a human being actually go out and enjoy him/herself without consuming drugs of any sort? (this might seem like a stupid question but go to any city centre on a friday or saturday night...) would people still go to bars or clubs if there was no bar?
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Terry Pratchett |
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zafer
IsraTrance Full Member
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290
Posted : Aug 25, 2005 01:58
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answer is definitely YES, some people may like use drugs at partys but they're a minorance, and ppl don't need partys to do drugs they do the same: at school, at job, at the bar....
if the important thing was drugs ppl would just blow their mind and tehy would see and hear marvelous things without needing to go to a party and just have the most amazing party in their heads, but imho it's not about this
right vibe right sound right people right location/deco is THE DRUG, i don't condamn use of drugs but...
we MUST absolutely realize first ourselves that drugs aren't necessarily related to our scene to make this understand to the people who come at party's just to blow their mind off(like i said before a very very small minorance), to dealers, and most important to authorities if we want a future.
in my land there's a speech that goes like this: he who understands needs not many words....
so ppl : get smart!!!!
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gaspard
Yab Yum
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50
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641
Posted : Aug 25, 2005 02:58
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ok then lets see a non smoking (spliff or cigarettes) party with no alcohol on sale for starters. then do not allow entrance to known dealers and throw any users out of the party. . my guess is there will not be many people in this party! i d love to be proven wrong though!
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Terry Pratchett |
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Nygma
IsraTrance Full Member
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63
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Posted : Aug 25, 2005 03:18
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Quote:
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On 2005-08-25 02:58, gaspard wrote:
ok then lets see a non smoking (spliff or cigarettes) party with no alcohol on sale for starters. then do not allow entrance to known dealers and throw any users out of the party. . my guess is there will not be many people in this party!
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i have to agree on this one. after all, (especially) psy trance is best served with the intake of mindaltering hallucinogenics. this is one of the reason why goafolks have a deep relationship going on with the music and practice a peaceful behavoiur code on parties.
let's bring it to the point: we're hippies and consume at least one illegal substance, on parties maybe more. or how do you explain all these tolerant feelings and gestures amongst eachother?? drugs are part of the party, as the music is, and let's not even talk about the essential deko. a party w/out drugs would not be as exiciting as in comparison to one where good shit is going around.
anyway, imho ibelieve that anyone should have the right to do what ever he feels like to his body ... but please, please with moderation.
music is the key to a better understanding of one self.
www.frakasoundrecords.com
fraka is a state of mind |
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gaspard
Yab Yum
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50
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641
Posted : Aug 25, 2005 12:48
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my point was that i d like to see dancefloors with less fucked up people. you dont need to be on drugs to enjoy it.... not even spliffs or alcohol...
i d like to add that as an artist i find it much more gratifying to play to a dancefloor full of straight people going for it.
i dont think being into psy trance necessarily means that you have to do drugs. i fucking hope not, that would be sending a pretty fucked up message to onlookers, newcomers and critics
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
Terry Pratchett |
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le barde
Electrypnose
Started Topics :
32
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348
Posted : Aug 25, 2005 15:06
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my point is that i d like to see dancefloors with less fucked up people ...
say it again ... i want to hear that more please.
and let me hope that the humans can save themselves. |
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dymons
Dymons
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62
Posted : Aug 25, 2005 19:38
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