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Earthquake Benefit CD
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Willy Wonka
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
574
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 12:21
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I was reffering to character nor real person of whom i've barely heard of. Pope or Theresa doesn't ring me a bell since i'm not christian and badly/weakly educated.
Again it is forum to discuss noone force anyone to accept views here just some of us and i'm the most rude and active of who think that one time CD was enough and donation should go direct to victims and not via thousands of 3rd parties. Calling me nazist, faschist, Hypocrat or richasses supporter just because i disagree is the same as to be all mentioned above. |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 12:24
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On 2005-10-27 09:44, Willy Wonka wrote:
Social Darwinism = Nazism
Do you now imagine these things? Social status and nazism, as far as i remember nazis were the ones who wanted to make all residents of the country equal. National Socialism it called if i'm not sure.
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Well, Willy, the Nazis party name was NSDAP, which means “the national social workers party”. Yes, there are many similarities between Stalinism and Nazism (Hitler was directly responsible for at least 20-25 million deaths, while Stalin was directly responsible for at least 30-40 million deaths). However, what you said resembled “survival of the fittest” theory, transferred to humans (social Darwinism = Nazism), which has nothing to do with Charles Darwin.
Hitler irrefutably believed that the Germans were direct descendents of the Arian people (a populace that moved from Persia to India and founded Hinduism), a completely ludicrous notion. The foundation of Nazism is actually based upon a book (can’t remember the name right now  ) written by an Austrian occultist (a woman as far as I remember), that had visited Tibet. The book amongst other things argued that one day “the people of the light” a superior breed of people, will create a marvellous civilization across the globe, Hitler of course speculated that that “the people of the light” were the Germans. Therefore they were the only population which was meant to survive.
 "Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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Willy Wonka
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
574
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 12:34
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What social status i was reffering to has to do with all you said above?
Strongest wins and it is true, how Hitler or Austrian hippie used it doesn't matter now in our case. I can go deeper in such theories but they comes from fact strong survives. Strong doesn't mean race, skin colour or family name. It means person, person can be strong not any of schizophrenic theories of Hitler, Stalin, Marks or Dragongirl.
The thing is that there are poor and rich, like black and white and it will remain. Rich are strongest, to be strong they passed many problems, IF WE NOW start to support poor, uneducated and rest of "waste" we will reduce our power and won't help them because the only achivement is self achievement and not done by daddy or mommy. Logical not. It's just imho, thou donations to victims of anykind are respected by me but it's much more. All money sent to Africa and all these 5rd... world countries all the time, it only damage them imho. Let them be what they are, time will change it. |
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The Green Channel
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
41
Posts :
1025
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 12:59
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Ok, Willy if you believe that this theory also applies to humans (strongest wins), you believe in social Darwinism and that is your right. However I completely disagree . You don’t necessarily have to be a racist in-order to believe in social Darwinism. When Hitler’s bunker in Berlin was bombed in 1945, Hitler wanted the German country and its people to be destroyed, because they were not the strongest race as he had speculated.
"Love is a way of life"
(Gaia, Love, Nature, Shamanism (.2A.y.0a.hu.1a.sc.2a.), Terence McKenna) |
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Willy Wonka
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
574
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 13:45
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Well, i can't know what Hitler was thinking while Russians bombed him and if it's happen at all, moreover i don't really care.
Again you mess two things, there is a difference between non action of me and action of Hitler. I say things are good as they are, you disagree with nature! good for you. The ugly situation in world will be changed someday. I just think care of poor isn't the proper way to change. I let nature to control so complex process of life.
Hitler tried to make a change in pretty extreme manner. Using main nature rule for his illogical theory which states Aris are better which is wrong since has no scientifical proof, when groups (communities,nations, parties or whatsoever) shouldn't be taken as a whole but as personal abilities and disabilities of each any of personalities.
That's why i fight against those here who think psytrance more intelligent or whatsoever better than anything else in here.
If you follow well things i say you can ask yourself now " Well Willy doing nothing, well better i will do something than being non active like him " ? Right, i do not mess with problems that humanity has no solutions to them at the moment. I deal with my personal life and try to enjoy it. I really fail to see how ppl can enjoy the life while they in mood of sadness and death all the time. Trust me it will happen to you to when someone close will die and you will be experienced with these sort of feelings in future you want it or not, then WHY THE FUCK DO IT MORE THAN LIFE OFFERS YOU?
AND MOST IMPORTANT THING: I don't believe in history (Facts, Names, Places) since it's subjective but i take all situations in it as lesson for me and my life. I gather information and store it somewhere. What i learned from any kind of history lesson is ANY TRY OF HUMANITY to change brought side effects which usually damage more than help. This is part of progress to try new things but i will try to avoid it as much as i can since i live only once and i need to deal with my own pleasures, selfish but it's me. |
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Pt.
IsraTrance Senior Member
Started Topics :
236
Posts :
6106
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 13:50
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Amazingly (o oh!) I agree mainly 50/50 with Green and Willy. (I dont feel like explaining at the moment)
*Continue, please*
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Acidhive
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
76
Posts :
2014
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 14:08
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On 2005-10-27 12:21, Willy Wonka wrote:
Again it is forum to discuss noone force anyone to accept views here just some of us and i'm the most rude and active of who think that one time CD was enough and donation should go direct to victims and not via thousands of 3rd parties. Calling me nazist, faschist, Hypocrat or richasses supporter just because i disagree is the same as to be all mentioned above.
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Willy: for what it's worth: you're absolutely right. And to the rest: you people will never learn. If you want to help you have to go there YOURSELF and offer care, medications, money etc. etc. Most of the money you send to some foundation who will take care of everything happens to fall into the hands of the people who DON'T need it (ie the rich and powerful). Here in the Netherlands we had an action for the tsunami victims a while ago and after an investigation it turned out that more than 75% of the money that was raised never got where it needed to be. The people were all angry and shit, but did it help? No. Just yesterday we had an action for the pakistan victims and managed to raise about 20 million euro's... Now, I'll bet that if there's investigation afterwards of this one, it'll again turn out that most of the money got stuck where it didn't belong. See what I mean by the phrase: you people will never learn?
And what I also can't grasp is this: most of you people have big mouths when it comes to aid and want benefit this and benefit that, but I don't see YOU in the country where it happened. You all want to contribute stuff, as long as you don't have to get of off your lazy asses and do something yourself. So shut the fuck up lecturing people like Willy and me who just say it like it is. Comparing us to Hitler and people like that is also stupid. How do you even come up with such comparisons? Does speaking the truth make me (or Willy for that matter) rascists or dictators/psychopaths? Come on... how can you even come up with that shit? Some of the people here really make me wonder what kind of people are in this scene. You'd almost believe drugs killed most of some people's braincells. Fuck!!
"Subconscious unravels at the point of death, and all time it has known erupts into a moment. As death extinguishes us, so we become it."
[Esoteric: Subconscious Dissolution Into The Continuum] |
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Willy Wonka
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
574
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 14:15
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Well the point is again comes across my words, some ppl are so "humanitarian" that it becomes sick as Hitler. Never be extreme that's it. You want to help, help quiet, i'm as person tired of all words of human. I won't like to be God to listen to crap like that, poor IT. |
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full_lotus
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
25
Posts :
562
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 14:33
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Has anyone here actually been to Kashmir???? Indian or Pakistani side??? It's only Pakistan that has requested any aid in the first place, and why is it that there are so many self appointed experts here???? If you want to buy a benefit CD then fine, if you want to go and help in person over there then fine, but arguing the toss on an internet forum is not going to save any lives.
Turn On, Tune In, Trance Out!!!
http://www.psymusic.co.uk |
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Oran
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
17
Posts :
1362
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 14:34
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*last chance before i lock this thread*
thank you for the history lesson.
now,back on topic.
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On 2005-10-13 13:34, Dragongurl wrote:
Hey everyone!!
The disaster that struck Pakistan and India has decimated villages and left thousands homeless and without family. Its one of the worst earthquakes ever to hit and in huge need of aid! Only measuring 7.9 on the scale it has affected many towns and and villages and was felt over 700 kilometres (435 miles) away......many have not been sent aid at all.
Is there any organisers out there that willing to put together another CD to raise funds to help the poeple!
All my thoughts and postive vibes to the affected areas, especially to the mothers and fathers that lost children when 2 schools collapsed.
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continue....
Always agressive never progressive. |
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Dragongurl
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
19
Posts :
623
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 14:58
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Wow, hectic discussion.....dont know what relevance Nazism and hitler has to do with all this anyway.
The comment "why dont we get off our lazy asses and do something" is one of the reasons why I posted this. Many of us dont own credit cards, have wonderful stable jobs that pay well and live happily in a rich (or poor) country......@ Willy....I might live in the UK now, but I've lived the rest of my whole life in south africa. In a way, this is one of the only ways that I can contribute my money to the needy and getting something in return is a bonus. I wouldn't really know where to go here in the UK, as Im not a local!
Maybe the guys that brought out the Tsunami CD can shed some light here.....did any of the money go to these so called "third parties"? Was there any "hidden" costs we weren't told about, or is that because (and IMO the real reason) you had the ability to produce a CD to raise money you could donate money for those victims for the psy ppl that cared.
:: Life can be as bitter as dragon tears
But whether dragon tears are bitter or sweet
depends entirely on how each man perceives the taste :: |
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Colin OOOD
OOOD/Voice of Cod
Started Topics :
95
Posts :
5380
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 16:57
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Willy Wonka
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
Posts :
574
Posted : Oct 27, 2005 18:03
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Colin, you and Chris are not the problem in whole this mess since i know you both enough to trust your words.
Point is who you were donating to, 'Friends of the Galle' website clearly states that money donated to it go to rebuilding of Asia countries damaged by Tsunami. I wouldn't go to anyones pocket and ask are these unpaid volunteers as they say or not, surely not professionals (doctors and social workers). These are just ppl with no expercience, technique or ability to help.
Why all of this mess, simple, because you and me were giving money to country rebuild via unknown organization while some organizations deal with immidiate help such as, shelter, food and medicine. I don't see any of these. What the point we help poor or victims ? There are millions Africa residents without any home but noone giving them a money! So It's not that Tsunami and help i wanted to see.
So at the end we helped them to rebuild the country instead of giving first needs as other, more known organizations deal with.
cheers, love and hugs from Israel |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Oct 28, 2005 01:21
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On 2005-10-27 18:03, Willy Wonka wrote:
Why all of this mess, simple, because you and me were giving money to country rebuild via unknown organization while some organizations deal with immidiate help such as, shelter, food and medicine. I don't see any of these. What the point we help poor or victims ? There are millions Africa residents without any home but noone giving them a money! So It's not that Tsunami and help i wanted to see.
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It is a good thing that there are several relief and help organizations to choose from when you want to help those in need - Both because they adress different aspects of relief, and also because they will have to compete with each other regarding efficiency in for instance their ability to get people to donate, how they use the money and structure their organization all together..
Small projects are also beneficial, since some of them might deal with relief areas that are untouched by the bigger organizations. Sometimes people need more than food, shelter & medicine... At some point children might even need something as lame as teddy bears, footballs or other toys in order for them to regain a normal life again (to be kids). I could go on with all kinds of examples, but my point is diversity in those relief organizations is a good thing.
Of course, if there is fraud involved it wont help the people who have suffered, this goes for the big organizations as well as the small ones. I dont see anything even hinting at fraud anywhere regarding the Tsunami Benefit release.
Another thing, it is downright incorrect if you say no help goes to africa - They get aid as well, however, they are not that hot in the media, but they were when famine first hit etheopia (I think it was in the end of the 1980ies or so). Also, if you are gonna make a point like "no, but lots are not getting any help in africa" then just remember that plenty Tsunami victims surely havent gotten any help either.
I think, if I implement your way of thought - or, just try to think along your ethical/ideological lines I would not even give any help at all to anyone anywhere. After all, my country donates foreign aid out of our national budget - and if its really that important, they can make it an item in their respective election campaigns, its a democracy after all.
Now, in regards to the relevance of this to the Psy Scene - Its is very simple, if you want to get people to donate money to an organization it is often done by giving them something in return for their donation. If artists & labels work for free to achieve a CD release which people will buy, and of which profits are donated to whatever relief organization then - well - then you created donations that wouldnt have been generated in the first place.
I myself didnt buy the CD to help those in need, I bought it for the music. I donated money to relief organisations on my own, getting the possibility of buying a really great tripple CD release from which the sales earnings would go to whatever humane purpose the label saw fit was just a bonus. I would have bought it anyway at that price!
Now, for the people who create a project such as the Tsunami Benefit CD, it is of course about wanting to help people thru their profession - and why the hell shouldnt they? (just like I myself donated my own money to Red Cross, they want to do the same, but they need more money to donate). If you are a doctor you might go where the catastrophe unfolds and try to help, but if you are a musician+label you might be able to help more thru your profession by initiating projects like benefit CDs.
So, why is it not OK for us to encourage labels and musicians to do this ? Especially Organic Records who already has some experience in that area. (but really, any label or artist with the capacity to do so). After all, for some of us the psychedelic (trance) culture plays a role in our lives, why cant we try to inspire those in our culture who we know have the capacity to initiate for instance benefit Cds ? Its all good isnt it ? or ? huh ?
Regards
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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Krell
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :
33
Posts :
1114
Posted : Oct 28, 2005 01:31
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On 2005-10-27 18:03, Willy Wonka wrote: I wouldn't go to anyones pocket and ask are these unpaid volunteers as they say or not, surely not professionals (doctors and social workers). These are just ppl with no expercience, technique or ability to help.
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Im gonna copy paste from www.galleproject2005.co.uk so you can see who the trustees in the project are (since you apparently didnt bother reading it before you sharpened your pen).
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OLIVER BARRETT
Oliver Barrett (39), is a civil engineer whose brother Alex is resident in Sri Lanka and is one of the driving forces behind Project Galle. Oliver has also spent time in the region and is actively involved in running the charity. His professional expertise will provide invaluable support to those on the ground when reconstruction commences in earnest.
ANDREW KAFKARIS
Andrew Kafkaris (32), a London based chartered surveyor, was due to fly to Sri Lanka on 29th December to join Gordon Duncan (fellow FrOG trustee) and other friends for the New Year celebrations. Andrew has been actively involved in setting up FrOG and raising funds. Using his professional expertise and industry contacts he is particularly looking forward to supporting reconstruction projects in the locality.
OLIVER BARRETT
Oliver Barrett (39), is a civil engineer whose brother Alex is resident in Sri Lanka and is one of the driving forces behind Project Galle. Oliver has also spent time in the region and is actively involved in running the charity. His professional expertise will provide invaluable support to those on the ground when reconstruction commences in earnest.
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They sound like professionals to me, just trying to help thru their profession as best they can (like I wrote in my earlier post).
Regards
Krell
Label DJ>
www.jesterrecords.ca |
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