frisbeehead
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Posted : Feb 24, 2015 19:45
Quote:
On 2015-02-24 08:46, moki wrote:
I agree with the idea of experimental approach, but if you follow the logic of Picasso, live psy trance acts would not make much sense either, because they know what they are going to do too.
I just like the notion to have a software under control and with the excercise to know exactly how it is going to react and do what I hear in my mind immediately instead of trying out what might work. Until this state is reached, I will still have motivation to go on, although I don't care about hungry markets and psy trance culture any more.
But do not listen to me, I know nothing about decent psy trance and hungry markets and btw I do not see anything to win in this market as a musician since at least 2005, and nothing to win as an organizer or conceptual visual artist since at least 2008, and before that I was too young to win anything:)). But the starter of the topic probably has more faith:).
Don't get me wrong. I'm obsessed with sound design and learning everything I possibly can about audio and specially synthesis. Started as an hobby and latter turning into more then that, as the obsession keeps on growing. What I've said previously has nothing to do with encouraging blind twiddling with the knobs. It's got to do with standing on one's foot and realising that no matter how much you try to rationalise things, there's still room for surprises and accidents that are not only revealing - as they encourage interpretation and further learning; but also important ingredients in anyone's creative work flow. There's a huge difference between being obsessive about your tools and techniques and over rationalising everything. The concept I'm challenging here, if you will, is that one should always just strive to materialize the ideas already on one's mind. Many times they get justly replaced by something else that takes over. The fascination some people have with analogue devices and all the non linear behaviour intrinsic to its circuitry has to do with that: it never sounds the same and even those little differences can add to the equation. If you consider the growing fascination with modulars, a big part of it has to do with setting up a workflow where you're able to profit from those journeys into the unknown. This means recording, of course, but also being open to "see what turns out".
Of course it's also useful to have instruments at hand that you know inside out. I have a couple of those bread and butter synths that I know all holes of, like the Virus (in my case). And I find myself getting other instruments that have features I was missing on the ones I have, so as to widen the palete of possible sounds and synthesis methods. But I'd be lying if I said that's really necessary. It's got to do with keeping yourself motivated and striving to learn new things. Many good music is made with fairly simple setups and that's fine.
On another note. Seriously, do you think anyone cares if your own definition of psytrance matches the common joe's notion of it? Or if you think organisers are doing a good job or not? Your motivation should come from inside. If you sit there waiting for the world to be just and sane, so as to engage in politics, for example, you may just spend your entire life waiting. So that's a clever move. If you don't like the music out there, go ahead and make some you like. You have everything you need to make it, expose it, gain some audiences that are into it and probably willing to pay to see you play if you see it fit. No excuses man. Decent psytrance is good music. Period.
frisbeehead
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Posted : Feb 24, 2015 19:54
P.S.
If you follow the logic of Picasso, like you said, then playing live is never, ever, going to sound the same twice, because there's the "performance" factor to keep in mind.
wirakocha
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Posted : Feb 24, 2015 22:25
also you can make awesome music without music theory
TimeTraveller
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Posted : Feb 24, 2015 22:49
you just need the heart for it. The excitement, the will to create, the passion and the dynamic to fullfil or to finish creations.
Something that I find the hardest, but I guess it is like that when you're into music for decades.
https://soundcloud.com/shivagarden
Bipolar
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Posted : Feb 25, 2015 00:38
This has help me a lot! also I have a midi controller with 4 octaves, and I try to look for the chords of my favorite rock songs ( or whatever floats your boat, it could be shakira or justin bieber ), and try to play them in the piano, and that has helped me so much, I learn about chords and progressions, and scales.
Mathura
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 25, 2015 01:25
Between the flight towards and through "the core and your core" of creation...
And on the way towards and through the own transcendental story in the whole transcendental story...
You can also use and download this tool for win (in case i-net is down somehow you still have a "scaler" on you PC)
moki
IsraTrance Junior Member
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Posted : Feb 25, 2015 16:31
Quote:
On 2015-02-24 19:45, frisbeehead wrote:
On another note. Seriously, do you think anyone cares...
No
moki
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Posted : Feb 25, 2015 16:54
Quote:
No excuses man. Decent psytrance is good music. Period.
It is not an excuse to say that there is nothing to win . Just some reasonable arguments:
1. Exactly as the example with good bestseller books that are simple, music is also more likely to gain (more!) audience if it is more simple. And I do believe that psy trance is the most complicated genre there is, for many reasons I would not count now. So how would you connect these two factors, big audience and psy trance into a linear function - it is simply not the best working economical concept.
2. Wonder why if I write the word decent in wikipedia, I am redirected to morality? . Decent music, whatever the style, is probably more than gaining audience . However, the measurement of quality in trance is often based on party stages and not on anythiny music theory like.
andro.bot
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Posted : Feb 25, 2015 22:41
Anyone serious enough about psytrance production would dig into music theory as it fades into psychoacoustics, sound design, rhythm... and many other interesting topics that would give a producer a much broader spectrum of choice when working the psycraft.
It's all about vibration
frisbeehead
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Posted : Feb 26, 2015 02:00
@moki
first of all, that's an interesting reply
1. I wouldn't. I generally don't think of it in terms of success, big crowds and money. I just don't. I agree that this is highly complex music, that you have to experience as much as you have to listen - and only then you're able to understand it. Long story short, most people simply don't. It doesn't appeal to the masses, there's probably no BIG money to be made. Not a single top chart on this scene. And it's fine like that.
So the question isn't really about success in those terms, is it? Surely not for me. I do believe in sharing though, if you think someone will enjoy the ride, maybe there's some compensation heading your ways - and I don't mean just money. But doesn't hurt either. If it pays for the ride and gear, it's more then one could ask for. The thing is: anyone who's into this better enjoy the process and not think about such things to much. Not everyone has to release music and perform either. It's a matter of choice.
I meant no disrespect when saying "no excuses". I meant the music making deal, all together. If you're here talking with me, you're probably into it as well. So, even if it's just for your own enjoyment, don't stop.
2. I don't know about anyone else. But for me quality is the music - a good sound system also helps of course. I think there's still great music being released and some non released that's great. Even if there wasn't, I'd still be doing what I like even if there's no one but me enjoying it.
moki
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Posted : Feb 26, 2015 17:00
Okey, last thing and then back to topic Well yes, I have nothing to add, because I see it like you too - and I said already where I see the meaning of making trance. For me it is a combination of all known sciencies, philosophies and mystic schools that I am interested in and the last thing to do with psy trance would be to gain audience. However, I have spent a few years with the scene and most artists I met and spoke to were actually very unhappy after the scene turned to be a bit less psychedelic (= less complicated music) after the millenium - and very unhappy to play in front of 10 ppl or to see themselves looking for a new job to survive. It was a sad picture and I am somehow lucky to never have tried their way. And besides, I believe the world has seen too much very good psy trance and not too little, so who am I to try releasing.
But lets go back to topic, isratrance has never been happy to see topics about music philosophy in the production forum. If there is an example of psy trance or psybient that was excelent in terms of music theory principles , which one would it be? And isnt psy trance actually something that is oft based on a new music theory of harmonics, not exactly on thirds, fifths and quint circles?
Mathura
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Posted : Feb 26, 2015 17:28
Quote:
On 2015-02-25 16:54, moki wrote:
Quote:
No excuses man. Decent psytrance is good music. Period.
2. Wonder why if I write the word decent in wikipedia, I am redirected to morality? . Decent music, whatever the style, is probably more than gaining audience . However, the measurement of quality in trance is often based on party stages and not on anythiny music theory like.
Thats why my lask task got maybe a bit cross "the borders of this topic"...
People which speak english as her mother tongue and first language maybe make a diffrence between :
Decent with the meaning of "ethical levels" and words with the meaning of "proper levels"...
At the end of the day, mainstream is no problem for me, its a consequence :
Its a part of the whole and, as the name "mainstream" suggests, its the "largest known part" of the whole in the happening...
So the most widespreaded known and liked genre specific artists are a kind of the "mainstream" of every genre...
And of course those artist have the most "success" and thoose artist give a taste to other "producer" whats "possible"...
And that is the little "psytrance-intern-market"... You know whats on...
I think this (good old) guy get to some points, when it comes to the "decent" things of psytrance and the event of psytrance:
(For the "proper" things, this forum should be enough to get information about the "technical thing")
cr1st0
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Posted : Feb 27, 2015 01:49
Nice interview
moki
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Posted : Feb 27, 2015 02:35
@Mathura, wow, this is now too much "flashback" for my head, now I need ground under my feet Strange, it has been almost 10 years since my own video interview with this man, back then he was the most decent person in the trance culture for me. But he taught me also another thing - if you can't say anything nice, better not say anything . I still have to exercise und will do it exactly here and now- it is a good thing to do with over 30
. However, the measurement of quality in trance is often based on party stages and not on anythiny music theory like. 
