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Doing music without any music theory what i need to know?

moki
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  38
Posts :  1931
Posted : Feb 20, 2015 14:16
Quote:

On 2015-02-19 16:37, knocz wrote:


Everything you'd need to know should be in this forum and, if not, you can always ask a bit more specific questions




Where in the forum can be learned what are the best practices to design your own synthies?
moki
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  38
Posts :  1931
Posted : Feb 20, 2015 14:35
Quote:

On 2015-02-20 01:52, vipal wrote:
psy does not need always extensive theoretical knowledge, 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 is often enough.




indeed .
if this were not true, there would not be hundreds of sky-rocketed psy trance musicians out there in the world who once came to isratrance, followed a step by step tutorial proposed by some veterans or pioneers and made it fast to the big crowds and FB-fans.

"Decent" psy trance is the way of the explorer. Some base it on music theory and physical instruments, others on engineering, but all "decent" ones like the intrinsic process of exploration more than the extrinsic goal of becoming a "psy trance musician". Exploration of harmonics is one of the greatest journeys you could take, because imo this is the object of transcendental music - transcend harmonics beyond music.




frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Feb 20, 2015 15:15
Quote:

On 2015-02-20 14:35, moki wrote:
Quote:

On 2015-02-20 01:52, vipal wrote:
psy does not need always extensive theoretical knowledge, 1, 3, 5, 7, 9 is often enough.




indeed .
if this were not true, there would not be hundreds of sky-rocketed psy trance musicians out there in the world who once came to isratrance, followed a step by step tutorial proposed by some veterans or pioneers and made it fast to the big crowds and FB-fans.

"Decent" psy trance is the way of the explorer. Some base it on music theory and physical instruments, others on engineering, but all "decent" ones like the intrinsic process of exploration more than the extrinsic goal of becoming a "psy trance musician". Exploration of harmonics is one of the greatest journeys you could take, because imo this is the object of transcendental music - transcend harmonics beyond music.









that's all nice and neat, but if you're to ask me (and I believe I'm not alone with this), I'd say you can indeed find very detailed info round this shores, some by very accomplished artists on this scene even. the rest is your own experimentation and efforts, no one's going to do it for you, let alone drive you into a musical career on a step-by-step basis. but there are such tutorials from accomplished artists around and they're not expensive even - a lot better then when I started, that's for sure. the amount of information available today, with the internet and such communities as this one is pure gold for those starting out.

I do agree, however, that one should take the role of an explorer. But not to the point of loosing touch with reality, 'cause when things get serious you're going to need to get results and that many times means a more "down to earth" approach. Cheers
Mathura
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  16
Posts :  91
Posted : Feb 20, 2015 17:02
The DAW, the tools (vst, vsti and hardware gear), notes and frequences, music theory, genre specific formulas...
And time to find the way through to the core and your core...

But Honestly...

I know, i started only some topics and didnt made much posts here...
I am not on facebook or any other "social network" my name isnt important for the world and the music business...

Do not believe in my following words - Please !!! KNOW which is linked together !!!

In this time decent psytrance means spartial to serve the "market"...

And the "market" is very hungry...

Once psytrance was "the alternative to the alternative" in the electronic "music scene"...
Spoken very simple : Tech, house and trance was alternative, psytrance was alternative to the alternative...

Again : " THE ALTERNATIVE TO THE ALTERNATIVE"...

The alternative to the alternative is since nativity a "movement" to crystallize life without the power of the mainstream priests... (Shaman or priest or plain text : Strenght/energy or power)

http://www.dict.cc/?s=power - http://www.dict.cc/?s=Energy - http://www.dict.cc/?s=strength

Meanwhile : The alternative is already know a bit by the mainstream, but the alternative to the alternative is mostly unkonown...
Meanwhile : If something doesnt "work" a human being/crowd needs a alternative to make it "work"

So house or trance was a good alternative to make the people "come together" and psytrance was the alternative to the alternative to come as close as possible together...
Reflect this with the political happenings in the world... Klick ???

These parts of the alternative represent a kind of spiritual "ROMS" ( READ ONLY MEMORY) of humans in the "modern time"

"Punk 'n' Grunge 'n' Hardcore 'n' Metall' music" was also the alternative to the alternative, untill such as NIRVANE & CO and some "promotors" opend the "gates" with "MTV" & "CO"...

All that becomes "Crossover" and the crowed of peolpe were happy, to get the "LIFE - ENERGY" by the "Music"...

Yeah... And much, much more than 100.000 peolpe went to the "Rock am Ring"...

----- I asked myself years ago : "Who got what it takes to give a psytrance experience on Rock am Ring, Germany"
----- I answered myself years ago : "Oh, Infected Mushroom has big mainstream capability"

But the market was hungry...

And the market guzzled a part of "the meanig" in the music... And the crowed of people became "mainstream food" from the priests...

Do we really think we have more mind, more intensions, more spirit than the crowed of people 2000 or 4000 years ago ?

We only incarnate cosmic technical possibilties and capabilities on earth...

So acoustic irradiation for crowds of peolpe is a "young tool", born in germany, 1925, "Berliner Funkausstellung", first loudspeaker...

The "INSANE-GERMAN-LEADER" used it in 1928, in Berlin, as one of the first ones to "treat with ultrasound" more than 1500 people...

And now we are sitting in front of a computer and we can ask ourself :

WHY AND HOW DO WE USE OUR FANTASTIC AND PHENOMENAL TOOLS... What do we have to know... What are the intesions... Why do we have which intensions ?

I often "felt" the intension to sound "decent", but "descent" is in this meantime and the standard "high end sound" experience of "psytrance-music",
a formula which is influenced definitively by the "decent mainstream psytrance"...

What i have to say therefore is, that there is maybe more to "know", more to feel, more to understand than :

The DAW, the tools (vst, vsti and hardware gear), notes and frequences, music theory, genre specific formulas...

THE UNDERLAYING CAUSE of psytrance is and could be further a big SHAMAN-THING in the MUSIC...

BIG THANX to all peolpe who gave and give that shamanic music ritual into this world...

Honestly...

This is no critic to something or whatever... Only reflection to work with...
splikz


Started Topics :  1
Posts :  287
Posted : Feb 20, 2015 18:42
Quote:

On 2015-02-20 14:35, moki wrote:
... transcendental music - transcend harmonics beyond music.



or you can produce formulaic psyprogressive, to make people jump. it's all about the bass!
knocz
Moderator

Started Topics :  40
Posts :  1151
Posted : Feb 20, 2015 19:53
Quote:

On 2015-02-20 14:16, moki wrote:
Quote:

On 2015-02-19 16:37, knocz wrote:


Everything you'd need to know should be in this forum and, if not, you can always ask a bit more specific questions




Where in the forum can be learned what are the best practices to design your own synthies?



hehe you don't need to know how to design / develop / implement synths to make music.. heck you don't even need to know much at all to make music ! (so many examples of "released artists" out there in this situation )

Plus, the technical skills for making a synth varies so much that there's hardly a forum out there that covers them all, but that's a completely different topic than music theory .


Nonetheless, if you wanna learn how to program synths, I betcha there is some things hidden around here, plus a whole bunch of people who make their own using N different platforms (I could probably help you out if your question is specific enough, but be prepared to receive a dump of pure C++ code, perhaps with some assembler in the mix )


I say it's way more important to learn a synth, than it is to learn how to make one (and the best synth-makers are not the best musicians ).           Super Banana Sauce http://www.soundcloud.com/knocz
vipal
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  123
Posts :  1397
Posted : Feb 20, 2015 20:14
Quote:

On 2015-02-20 14:35, moki wrote:
if this were not true, there would not be hundreds of sky-rocketed psy trance musicians out there in the world who once came to isratrance, followed a step by step tutorial proposed by some veterans or pioneers and made it fast to the big crowds and FB-fans.



, mention 3, if not possible two, or at least one artist like that? cannot be too hard if there were hundreds....



          http://soundcloud.com/vipal
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Feb 20, 2015 22:59
you can, perhaps you even should let your mind fly as high as you can. if your music captures the imagination of people, so they can take that flight with you, all the better.

I believe in the strength of this community and in the value of some of the info that's been and is being shared daily here. I don't believe it's just about generic, formulaic music. I don't even think that the majority of users here are into that.

but I think it's one thing for someone to ask (like it happened recently) what music means to you, or what definition you'd find for it. you can sort of see it coming with such questions. you're going to deep territory. most of our obstacles when producing, though, they have a more technical nature and, hence, it's more then practical to give a more technical oriented answer, right?

Just the fact we're into this sort of stuff, probably means we're not into fame and glory, let alone making a fortune out of music. we probably share similar stories, regarding how we got into it and all. we know what's out there and what's inside of us. So we don't need to put that in front of everything else, that's just my take on it.

When the question is about music making, then a daw and some know how of the things involved are what it takes. It's not all it takes, but we trust the person reading will be more then aware of that by now, otherwise wouldn't be struggling with some crossroads and dead ends and asking for help or another opinion, right?

But saying such things doesn't mean I vote for generic music or commercial psytrance or whatever. Sure as hell not me. If someone sees a connection between shamanism and music, I'm (we?) all for that. Besides, what you do in the studio and the tools you manipulate while expressing yourself, can be seen in the same light as any other higher subject. We're in a journey where things become available to us and shake our notions of what's possible and what's not. And in a way our music is as much an expression of that as it is of our wildest dreams. Right?

But I highly doubt someone can do this daily and not be curious enough to bypass all their limitations, one at a time, reaching what seemed impossible at first. Doesn't mean you have to rock the crowds even, just get your own fuel going, the space ship flying????!!! Cheers
Mathura
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  16
Posts :  91
Posted : Feb 21, 2015 03:08
Yeah...

Ok...

"Doing music without any music theory what i need to know to do a decente psytrance music?"

The question unbolts indirect different directions of knowledge and reflections... "Decent" is also a wide range...

So maybe the "nexus" of psytrance / goa could be also a support to find "the own story in the whole story"...

At the end of the day :

Knowledge helps a lot... Everywhere... Also in (psy) music production...
Xsze


Started Topics :  5
Posts :  657
Posted : Feb 21, 2015 04:49
Quote:

On 2015-02-20 18:42, splikz wrote:
Quote:

On 2015-02-20 14:35, moki wrote:
... transcendental music - transcend harmonics beyond music.



or you can produce formulaic psyprogressive, to make people jump. it's all about the bass!



It's always about the bass
vipal
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  123
Posts :  1397
Posted : Feb 22, 2015 01:20
I think the emoticons are the best part of this site, and adding to that... never underestimate the importance of the kick           http://soundcloud.com/vipal
splikz


Started Topics :  1
Posts :  287
Posted : Feb 22, 2015 19:43
Quote:

On 2015-02-22 01:20, vipal wrote:
... never underestimate the importance of the kick



it's all about the "low end!" lol
moki
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  38
Posts :  1931
Posted : Feb 23, 2015 16:11
Very interesting comments:).

Indeed, the intention is the basic factor that decides what do you need to know in order to make decent psy trance.

For me, music has always been a field that connects more abstract scientific disciplines like maths with applied science, informatics and technology , and furthermore it connects science and mystic too. When I start making music, I do it because my main intention is to understand the common denominator of all of these fields - and this means that I need to learn more in any of those sciences in order to follow my intention.

And if you are honest with human history, you will see that this is exactly what people did for hundreds and hundreds of years - for example scientists like Kepler went off to look for proportions and geometrical shapes of the movements of the planets simply because they believed that these proportions, exactly like the proportions of harmonics in music, are a kind of a sign given to us by a transcendental creator force. Such scientists just tried to understand harmonics in music with the intention to understand the world we live in and the purpose we have as humans. It was not about becoming a star musician or finally having a decent release, but it was the process of learning, observing, understanding sound, that was the moving force, at least in all centuries before the modern times. And even in modern times, understanding physics and maths really helps to understand all qualities of sound that you create, instead of just tweeking knobs and see what happens. It won't help you to win in the market, but it helps to realize more about the universe we live in and the meaning of life itself. It is the question, that is important, the way is the goal.

And on the other hand, throughout history playing an instrument has never been a domain of professional musicians only. Today, studies show that playing an instrument does make your brain more advanced and the communication between the two brain halves faster - it helps in any given field of human activity. People always knew it and played at home without the intention to become star musicians. This is also something that was lost in the course of psy trance history - it was more important to have results, achieve success, have releases, as many as possible and make a decent impression by buying expensive hardware. The process of creating music (through coordination) became less important.

And last but not least, I know there were many discussion in isratrance about what is psy trance throughout the years. I also learned long time ago that what I think is psytrance is not what it is for most people and for them it sounds "not grounded" and also too elitist to say that psy trance is not a style but a state of mind , achieved through psychic excersise, through a mystical approach to life, or through reading psychedelic and cybernetic authors. At the end of the day, the idea of a psy trance culture slowly faded off for me, since I dont think there was ever anything like that for a significant amount of people. However, it would be a part of making decent psy trance for me too.

So, I now wrote too fast and too much, hope you apologise the non specific comment on making music, which I promised not to make again after discussing the 432 hz issue .


Quote:

On 2015-02-20 19:53, knocz wrote:
Nonetheless, if you wanna learn how to program synths, I betcha there is some things hidden around here, plus a whole bunch of people who make their own using N different platforms (I could probably help you out if your question is specific enough, but be prepared to receive a dump of pure C++ code, perhaps with some assembler



Hm, may be it is time to start a discussion on exactly these issues and then throw some lines of code for those who are involved in programming. According to what I just said, I think this would be a great way to learn more about music making and connect one more puzzle to the whole picture. For my part, at the moment I am involved with Java, as I said in another topic, working as IT project manager in the past years, so I guess am now grounded enough to find such a discussion absolutely fantastic.
frisbeehead
IsraTrance Junior Member
Started Topics :  10
Posts :  1352
Posted : Feb 23, 2015 18:32
you know, there's a part of it I can relate to. but as with most things, you don't actually need to aim for the big subjects in life to make a big or deep work of art. just take a look at literature: many times it's the most trivial of subject matters that are behind the most interesting books.

like I said and I hope I don't come across as a blind sceptic of sorts, many times art can show us the most obvious of things in another light - and that's part of its magic. you know, I really see no problem in just tweaking and seeing what happens. that kind of intimate connection with sound, even when you can't pin point exactly what's under the hood - down to the programmer level; is exactly what's needed for creating nice music. you surely don't need to over think everything. a huge part of creativity is about trusting your gut, following that foggy idea you have about how it should sound and you're certain an epiphany awaits you once you reach that. sometimes by accident. many times by accident. being open to it matters a lot, actually. fairly more then trying to control it all, trying to understand everything. I believe - and this is assumedly a personal point of view - that one must be open to such surprises. with music, life, psychedelic journeys. you have to give in the idea that you're in control and that your mind is capable of grasping the bigger picture and instead realise you're creativity and understanding isn't just on the rational part of the brain, but on the contrary, many times it lies where no word has been said to categorize it, no picture made to resemble it, uncharted territory. may be frightening, may not contribute to the notion that your understanding of things is evolving. but trust me, I know so many people with bogus ideas printed on their minds, and it just sounds like a nice puzzle, how it all fits together, but then you need to look back and challenge the very notions you started that building with, you know, the bricks? many fail to do so.

that's my problem with the so called conceptual art (or most of it). if you know what you're going to do, you're better of doing something else (Picasso). cheers
moki
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  38
Posts :  1931
Posted : Feb 24, 2015 08:46
I agree with the idea of experimental approach, but if you follow the logic of Picasso, live psy trance acts would not make much sense either, because they know what they are going to do too.

I just like the notion to have a software under control and with the excercise to know exactly how it is going to react and do what I hear in my mind immediately instead of trying out what might work. Until this state is reached, I will still have motivation to go on, although I don't care about hungry markets and psy trance culture any more.

But do not listen to me, I know nothing about decent psy trance and hungry markets and btw I do not see anything to win in this market as a musician since at least 2005, and nothing to win as an organizer or conceptual visual artist since at least 2008, and before that I was too young to win anything:)). But the starter of the topic probably has more faith:).
Trance Forum » » Forum  Production & Music Making - Doing music without any music theory what i need to know?
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