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Crowd Funding
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Apr 18, 2013 19:29
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Wow... hell might have frozen over.. Kristian agrees with me.
  An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Apr 19, 2013 05:03
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As someone who lives in America, a full-time student, and on welfare with a child I find that comment incredibly offensive. Do you know how much money a single individual gets in America on welfare? $250 USD per month for 3 months, (which you have to work 24 hours a month for) and 200 USD per month in food vouchers. And that's in California where they are a bit liberal about social programs. Both amounts combined is about half my rent. If I could reach through the computer right now, I'd bitchslap you.
I find that crowd funding can help many people, and it's not begging for money. Each individual offers something for the contribution.
I totally get where Satori is coming from. For those who say, use freeware to make your music... have you ever actually tried to use JUST freeware to make a song? Do you know how difficult it actually is to gather enough QUALITY sounding free tools to make something that doesn't sound like shite? Have you ever used freeware DAWs? What about speakers? How can you accurately create music if you can't accurately hear it?
I'm sure many of your are also below the poverty line, and you have friends that help you out from time to time. I see crowdfunding as no different. It's become apparent that many people do not wish to pay for things if they get them for free, and while that's all well and good for the consumer, what about the individual that at the very least devoted time out of their lives to create things that people enjoy and discard like yesterday's used toilet paper? Why do you see many acts who made unique music now making whatever is the popular thing in their area? Because at the end of the day the community that they love and devoted themselves to couldn't bother to do more than pay lip service. Another important thing to bear in mind is that dealers aren't losing any money at the parties... in fact more often than not, they're the only ones that MAKE money at the party. If party people gave the individuals that create the sounds that they trip out to half as much respect as they give the random dude who has who-knows-what for sale, then we might not actually need to crowdfund. But of course at least with the dealer, if you don't pay him you don't get what you want. Or he breaks something of yours.
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100% agreed! 
On another note, people spend 3 bucks for a cup of coffee, and try to download a fucking tune for free at all cost or swear on Ektoplazm, while Ektoplazm remains a good promotional tool, you may want to wonder, 5 bucks for a cuppa Joe which you consume in 10 minutes or 99cents for a track you will enjoy a hell of a lot longer!
Making good music not only takes quality plugs, it also takes a lot of time to hone your craft, until you know what the rules are and how to break them! So in a world where people don't respect an artists point of view, (and this is especially prevalent in North America in my experience) crowd funding is absolutely ok, and if I had enough $ I would give some to him as well!!! Hell, I am an artist...
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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OzMike
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
148
Posts :
1681
Posted : Apr 19, 2013 07:13
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Definitely agree with Mubali. I have always purchased my music, even second hand (only if price is fair), and accept that if I don't have the cash sometimes I've had to forego owning some releases.
But really if you cannot afford to spend on the tunes or make a donation to the artists then you really don't deserve the pleasure of their music.
I do fine it funny when people complain about free releases on Eltoplazm. I me a seriously, at least bother to make constructive criticism rather than just bitching.
Cuntus Maximus. |
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Upavas
Upavas
Started Topics :
150
Posts :
3315
Posted : Apr 19, 2013 12:39
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Hey, not at all bitching about Ektoplazm here, I am bitching about freeloaders tho, Ektoplazm has a button on their releases which allows people to donate something to the people whose music they download. And I also understand that people from poorer countries just don't have the means to buy their sound, so Ektoplasm is great for them too, but people who can spend $ for their sound and don't are the ones where I will bitch and moan to my hearts content, if you got $ to buy things to fry your brain with, you should also consider to buy your music. That way there is a flow and exchange of energies, and that's good for all people involved!
Upavas - Here And Now (Sangoma Rec.) new EP out Oct.29th, get it here:
http://timecode.bandcamp.com
http://upavas.com
http://soundcloud.com/upavas-1/ |
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1477
Posted : Apr 19, 2013 13:25
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it is a known FACT that the psy-scene is one of the least artist supporting scenes in the whole wide world. you can't change that!
might be because many people are travellers, hippies and what not with little money to share.
but it's still shortsightedness and ignorance from the audience not to support their favourite artists.
how many artists can actually work for free and keep the scene thriving?
sadly, very very few...
so the choice a psy-artist has to make sooner or later is:
if you want to make a living then you have to write other kinds of music. if you have a burning desire to keep the psy-scene alive and thriving then you have to accept that the only money you'll ever see from it (if you're that lucky!) comes from small booking fees.
"no one ever sweats on a plug-in" -moby |
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mubali
Mubali
Started Topics :
71
Posts :
2219
Posted : Apr 19, 2013 18:13
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That makes me question exactly WHY this scene provides so much "emotional" support and good vibes, but is far more willing to part with their money for a consumable product that they sometimes cannot even determine the quality of, which possibly could harm their body, than to just even kick in 1 buck toward something that can be enjoyed multiple times for decades. I've seen "diehard" fans argue over paying the entry cost to a party, complain about the price of beverages at the event, even complain that the party sucks and they want their money back at the event, all while ingesting all types of stuff. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that people can't spend money how they choose, but people tend to forget the consequences of their priorities. Most artists I talk to don't dream of making a ton of money in this scene, all they want is to offset the cost to actually make the music and come to play.
Looking at the music industry as a whole, records sales historically didn't go to the artist. It went to the record labels who got the doe eyed artist to sign away their soul on the dotted line in exchange for cash up front. All artists have gotten more money from performance rather than sales. As it currently stands, labels are losing tons of money, to the point where limited runs of less than 500 physical copies still run a risk of not being able to pay for itself. Labels were the ones that were taking that risk and now that there's further diminishing returns, some even wonder how long they can do the limited runs. Does that mean that they're not a good label? I doubt it, it's the nature of things today. Priorities are misplaced, and I think crowdfunding shifts things from being Supply Side driven (like classical economic model) to Demand driven.
I'll use B.A.'s crowdfunding idea as a launchpad for what I am thinking.
If you do a crowdfund for releasing your own album, and are transparent about what the money is for, the market will tell you whether or not you will be able to release that physical product. If you don't get enough people to help pay for it, you can't do it. It does not mean that your music won't come out, since digital downloads are available and certain sites can host for free. It just means that you don't have enough of a fan base yet to pay for releasing an album. This eliminates distributors from having tons of unsold stock that takes up space, and it also shifts the control of the music away from the label and distributor model and connects it between artist and audience.
I don't see this as a bad thing at all. I don't have anything against good labels and honest distributors, and I do feel that if it were just left in the hands of the artist to promote themselves from day one, it might prevent really talented individuals from reaching the audience that they want.
Personally, everytime I try to make another genre of music I find that I am quite disappointed in the result because I am not doing it for the same reasons I make psychedelic trance. If I have to make a more popular genre just to make money, how's that any different than standing on a street corner charging 20 bucks for head?
That being said, if you make other genres of music because you love that music as well, and it just so happens to be popular, then good on ya! Nothing wrong with that.
I just get tired of the same argument that we cannot change the fact that people will not financially support the music that is created and the artists. Crowdfunding directly challenges that concept, and presents a concept that if they want it, they'll give you the tools to build it if you ask. If not, you can always do a net release and use that to build your fan base.
The flood of music over the past years in the previous model of taking a risk to print the cd and hoping that it will pay for itself died from starvation.
An Eagle may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines. |
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Beat Agency
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
53
Posts :
1752
Posted : Apr 19, 2013 22:18
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I'm amazed how many fans actually do want to contribute. My crowd-funding experience has been a very positive one and I've re-gained my trust in that people do want to support the artists they like.
www.beatagency.dk |
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Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
63
Posts :
1477
Posted : Apr 19, 2013 23:15
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mubali, you have many good points.
i guess crowdfunding is one of the best ways to do it nowerdays...
it's like pre-ordering a product. if the manufacturer gets enough orders he'll make it happen.
if not then his product wasn't desirable enough.
no bullshit. just music on demand. i like it!
if i ever get into full swing again i'm going to have a go at it too 
it's also encouraging to hear success stories from other artists who have already tried it. best of luck to you all!
"no one ever sweats on a plug-in" -moby |
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psy-goa
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
133
Posted : Apr 23, 2013 17:52
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i still buy cdS and some stuff from internet. but now dont have money enough to buy just for the try if its good or not.
i buy only finland stuff cause its such a small market and i want to hear good sounds  maybe should start selling drugs again and buy for support and curiousity. and when theres a party if its big i try to get in for free. but when its if you want to pay party i can pay whatever amounts. dont really like going big. but im offtopic again i quess |
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PoM
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
162
Posts :
8087
Posted : Apr 23, 2013 19:13
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On 2013-04-19 22:18, Beat Agency wrote:
I'm amazed how many fans actually do want to contribute. My crowd-funding experience has been a very positive one and I've re-gained my trust in that people do want to support the artists they like.
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sure ,can understand people donnate to get music they really enjoy as it s not necesarry easy to find and also supporting their fav artits at same time ..win win in the end.
artists release more tune cause of the help of the fans..fans get more of the music they want to listen to... perfect
dunno how to say exaclty but maybe someone will understand 
problem is for artists that are not well known..
and i can see already lot of pathetic sell speach to make people donate,.that would suck.. |
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psy-goa
Started Topics :
0
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133
Posted : Apr 23, 2013 19:51
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RESPECT it is! earned by hard work! then hippies might drop dimes not acid theres so many places to donate... and so plenty wonderful music out there so... idont know.. why not? |
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OzMike
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
148
Posts :
1681
Posted : Apr 24, 2013 05:18
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Crowd funding is actually meant more for start up businesses rather than established ones. It's all about how you manage to advertise your project.
My mate used it to start up a small suit/fashion design business. He started out of his apartment & now owns a studio, and quite his full time job to run his label.
All within 2 years of starting a crowd funding project. It took him a lot of work though to convince people to support him. He works in an office 8-6pm everyday and the. Worked on his project to earn support about another 4-6 hours at night time. It all depends on how dedicated & active you are!
Cuntus Maximus. |
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Kumquat
Started Topics :
1
Posts :
38
Posted : Apr 25, 2013 23:19
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On 2013-04-18 13:58, mubali wrote:
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On 2013-03-18 10:43, Kumquat wrote:
Another trance killah(not sure how you dark kids spell killer but i think im close enough)! Thats super sweet your getting free money but come on! Everyone is an artist, life is art no matter what you say, we are all special not just you. The poor artist speech format has been used in trance for over 15 years now…if you go to school full-time and do art full-time plus a full-time father with no job then you must live in America taking advantage of the welfare system or your just fortunate to have someone paying your way who refuses to buy you speakers cause they want you to get a job. Go to school part-time and do your hobby(art) music stuff part-time and get a full-time job to buy them speakers yourself plus buy you child some toys, now thats psycore.
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As someone who lives in America, a full-time student, and on welfare with a child I find that comment incredibly offensive.
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Of course your gonna be offended, naturally! Before congratulating Satori on meeting his goal I had already said my piece with his status established in the order of importance/urgency as a father so no need to get too deep with your $.02 worth. Is there a reason you quoted my words "everyone is an artist"? I didn't read anything in your reply towards that very important part of that quote. Suppose your not into equality which makes sense after reading your reply.
No need to blame the dealer for your lack of collecting money from the scene. Its not the dealers fault that the majority of the poverty(your word) people need to be high to enjoy the music. Be thankful the dealer is there so people can relate to your music. Why do you view the dealer as your rival in competition for money? You do produce music that has dealer references in its genre title, fact. If you want to avoid the dealer from taking what you feel is yours then set your goals above the poverty leveled audience. Im guessing you have never been to the BOOM festival since its an event poverty stricken people cant afford to visit. Its lame for having expectations to make a living/profit from the scene, try producing rock music if you wanna be a rockstar or become more original as many have in this scene. Its amazing how many producers that never ask for money who make it. I rather donate funds to people who aren't holding their hands out simply because they aren't expecting money for their well produced art since its not work to them. If your that good at making music then get a job as a session musician or a professional producer who makes sounds for movies, commercials and radio. That way you can help bring back the vibe that once was on the beaches of Goa before everyone who wanted to be singled out wanted to get paid.
Now that you have said your piece on the "dealer". You must be aware that most "Americans" that pay your way are subject to drug testing so your viewpoint advocates that you would have no objection to random drug testing to receive welfare and to have your 24 hour Government assisted job. What is your viewpoint on "Americans" who pay your way who aren't parents, do you feel they should pay for other peoples children when they made the choice to not be parents? Its already observed your not into equality so its okay that you ignore the question.
Im very sure many "Americans" are offended to say the least by your choices as well
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Yidam
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
144
Posts :
3171
Posted : Apr 25, 2013 23:48
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Which world do you live in Kumquat ? Even when you're big you're going to have to hold out your hand, gigs, endorsements, sponsorship, whatever. unless you're lucky enough to see the money first and then hire a manager to do it for you.
crowdfunding puts the power of the payment back to the fans. you cannot judge an artist if they put a price-tag on their work. and if crowdfunding is being abused its upto the platform to figure out how to run things.
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Kumquat
Started Topics :
1
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38
Posted : Apr 26, 2013 00:07
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On 2013-04-25 23:48, Yidam wrote:
Even when you're big you're going to have to hold out your hand, gigs, endorsements, sponsorship, whatever.
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I have already adressed your excuses why the true vibration is gone. I also never wrote that crowdfunding was a bad thing, I only implied that this particular thread to TROLL for money was weak.
The real question is, what World do you live in? and to keep focus on this topic thread and to keep positive I will quote myself again. "congrats on meeting your goals thru this campaign", job well done Satori. |
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