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copyrights and webradio
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Rik
IsraTrance Team
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Posted : Jan 13, 2004 14:22
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Bes: that much a month? wow... that's a big difference with 1200-1300 a year... are you sure about those numbers?
EP: If sabam doesn't know their rules, i doubt i'm the person to convince them, income of commercials has a direct influence on how much you pay for the broadcast permit
http://www.sabam.be/website/data/webradio.pdf describes this but is only available in dutch.
these are official documents!
6% of whatever money you make with your websites advertisements belongs to them :/
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
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1177
Posted : Jan 13, 2004 14:43
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Quote:
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On 2004-01-13 14:22, rik wrote:
EP: If sabam doesn't know their rules, i doubt i'm the person to convince them, income of commercials has a direct influence on how much you pay for the broadcast permit
http://www.sabam.be/website/data/webradio.pdf describes this but is only available in dutch.
these are official documents!
6% of whatever money you make with your websites advertisements belongs to them :/
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I am sure it wont do any good if you try to convince them as they can be quite stubborn (just as some label people in Belgium can be stubborn and very arrogant). I have talked with them before about not paying the correct amount of royalties.... btw they lost in the end 
As I said I will talk to KODA about this. It's also in KODA's and danish artists interest that Sabam follow international agreements. But I am quite sure they already know that Sabam is off the track here.
Just be aware of that if you play track X and artist X or his/her's copyright organisation find out that you played his/her music and did not pay broadcast royalties for use of the music you can get into seriously legal trouble no matter if you're following Sabam's so-called official rules.
International copyright laws say that you are bound to pay for the music you play. NOT as a fixed price per month but indevidually for each track you play 24/7.
It's only sports clubs ect. that are allowed to pay a fixed price because they main purpose is sport NOT music!
Your main purpose is to broadcast music and therefore you are bound to pay for track you put out in the air.
As for, commercials they are right about you having to pay them 6%. But it still have nothing to so with the music broadcasting! They are allowed to take a percentage of your commercial income if you use commercials to finance your radiostation but again it have nothing to do with the price you have to pay for broadcasting music !
It can be damn confusing with all these copyright rules and of course you can chose to follow Sabam's "homemade" rules but just be aware of that you can get in serious trouble with foreign artists and their organisations if you dont pay for use of their music.
Anyway good luck 
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Rik
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
107
Posts :
966
Posted : Jan 13, 2004 14:55
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there's just one thing i question about your last post: So far it remained clear that if an artists does not register himself with a copyright organisation, he himself remains owner/manager of his work and has the right to make his own deals with people that want to broadcast/perform/play his work. So technically, if i find 10 unregistered artists and get their written consent i can broadcast their work free of sabam fee's.
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
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1177
Posted : Jan 13, 2004 15:04
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To that I can say in the principle YES but as far as I recall there are some laws concerning this issue too. I am not totally aware of the exact content of these laws but as far as I recall you still have to get a permission from Sabam and maybe even also still pay a fee to them. But as I said I am not 100% sure. You better find out with Sabam and hope they know themselves...lol
To those unregistrated artists I have one advice... Get registrated. You loose a lot of income and valuable help and legal advice by not being registrated.
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Borris
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
45
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1581
Posted : Jan 13, 2004 18:19
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if anyone is interested in the legalities of this stuff then this would be a good place to start.
http://www.globalmusicresource.com/legal/legal.html
they are speaking of the american law, in most places the copyright laws are pretty much the same.
and christian , there is no such thing as international law, each country has it's own set of laws, angola for instance has no copyright laws at all. so basicly if I'd be based in Angola i could do all i want.
Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
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1177
Posted : Jan 13, 2004 18:27
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Quote:
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On 2004-01-13 18:19, Dr. Borris wrote:
if anyone is interested in the legalities of this stuff then this would be a good place to start.
http://www.globalmusicresource.com/legal/legal.html
they are speaking of the american law, in most places the copyright laws are pretty much the same.
and christian , there is no such thing as international law, each country has it's own set of laws, angola for instance has no copyright laws at all. so basicly if I'd be based in Angola i could do all i want.
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The law is deffinently 100% similar inside the E.C which Belgium is a part of and also USA. And there's indeed agreement between most American/European organisations versus Asian and African organisations to work together via agreed guidelines that are very similar to those laws used in Europe/USA.
And I know that Israel now finally is getting up to American/European standard too when it come to collecting and reporting broadcast royalties
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Rik
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
107
Posts :
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Posted : Jan 13, 2004 18:33
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Acum is ahead of us actually, look at their radio broadcast system, belgium doesn't have anything like it...
www.psytracks.com :: Brand new website for sharing your psytracks with the world. Get a free 250Mb Artist profile, Blog and events calender!
www.psygarden.be :: Upload your psychedelic art and partypictures to our gallery! |
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Borris
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
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1581
Posted : Jan 13, 2004 19:37
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Israel is very advanced copyright wise, also very comfortable since we have one org. take care of all types of royalties (unlike nordic countries for instance, denmark has CODA and NCB sweeden has some more as well, in the US it's even worse they have several org. that do the same thing, u choose who to join).
but alot of african and asian countries don't have the copyright thing at all and east europe is only now starting to set it all up since copyright used to belong to the state.
Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire! |
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nobody_3
Inactive User
Started Topics :
13
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1177
Posted : Jan 13, 2004 20:08
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Yes Boris but there's been problems in the past with the your national organisation when it came to pay royalties for broadcasts (Like music played on your national radio) in Israel to foreign artists
I am not making it up. I've had my share of trouble too with them (via KODA of course).
Please dont confuse KODA with NCB. It's 2 totally different organisations that work in very different fields.
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Borris
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
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Posted : Jan 13, 2004 21:07
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I don't confuse them, but in Israel ACUM does the work of both.
CODA takes care of performance rights and NCB of mechanical reproduction rights.
am i right that to recieve payment from both you need to be registered with both??
and if u have original lyrics then there is a third society that manages the text rights.
the porblem with acum and radio (still) is that instead of asking for exact playlists they make their own average playlist and then distribute the money that way, since trance isn't played much it's on the bottom of the list.
only recently have they started demanding exact playlists and paying according to them.
Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire! |
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Bes
Tribalistic Society
Started Topics :
64
Posts :
709
Posted : Jan 15, 2004 12:42
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Rik
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
107
Posts :
966
Posted : Jan 16, 2004 14:27
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Does anyone know if there is a legal way to put dj sets online for promoting their skills? dj's and even labels put their recordings online all the time (mostly beginners ofcourse) and i was wondering if i can do this without having to worry about ever running into a copyright organisation...
Same for artists putting their own tracks online (in mp3 format intended for download, not streaming) if they are registerd with a copyright organisation, can they still do this ?
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Borris
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
45
Posts :
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Posted : Jan 16, 2004 14:38
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a) no, unless you recieve all the needed clearances from all copyright holders.
b) No, once you join a copyright org. you transfer to them the rights for the music and they can't do anything without clearance from the copyright holding org.
Kinetic Honda GmbH, Worldwide Supliers of Quality noise.
Progression Sessions of the 3rd Empire! |
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Rik
IsraTrance Team
Started Topics :
107
Posts :
966
Posted : Jan 16, 2004 15:49
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reply from Sabam (belgian copyrights organisation):
"Beste,
Ik probeer u een zo duidelijk mogelijk maar voornamelijk theoretisch antwoord te verschaffen:
Wanneer een DJ auteursrechtelijk beschermd repertoire gebruikt, en zijn dj-set ook nog opneemt dient hij hiervoor eigenlijk al een wettelijke toelating te bekomen van de verschillende platenlabels waarvan hij de muziek gebruikt.
Indien deze opnames ook nog eens via het Internet voor downloading worden aangeboden dienen opnieuw de betrokken platenlabels hiervoor een toelating te geven, waarna ook SABAM auteursrechten moet innen voor de publieke mededeling en de reproductie (het downloaden dus) van de werken.
Ik besef ook wel dat de meeste dj's zich nooit de moeite getroosten om contact op te nemen met de labels van de muziek die zij gebruiken, maar dit is nu eenmaal wat de wet zegt (zie exemplaar van de wet in bijlage).
Daarenboven is het helemaal niet zeker dat de labels zomaar toestaan dat 1) hun werken in een dj-set worden gemixt, en 2) dat deze mix dan ook nog eens voor download beschikbaar wordt gesteld. Ik kan u garanderen dat bijna alle labels zich zeker tegen deze laatste mogelijkheid zullen verzetten.
Vraagt men deze toelating niet dan maakt men zich schuldig aan illegale verspreiding en gebruik van masteropnames van de labels (zie hoofdstuk II 'Naburige Rechten' van de Wet op het Auteursrecht van 30/6/1994 in bijlage). Zie hiervoor tevens volgende tekst die op elke plaat of cd voorkomt "All rights of the producer and of the owner of the recorded work reserved. Unauthorised copying, hiring, renting, public performance and broadcasting of the record prohibited."
Indien u zou overwegen om de dj-sets als on-demand streaming aan te bieden (zonder mogelijkheid tot downloaden) dan is ons barema nr. I(2) van toepassing (zie tarief in bijlage)."
Translation:
I'll try and give you an as clear as possible (theoretical) answer.
When a dj uses coprighted material, and records his set he'll need legal permission from all different labels he's using the music from.
If these recordings are also being put up for download you again need permission from all different labels involved and we (Sabam) will have to charge you for the copyrights on these works.
We do realise that most dj's will never do these efforts to contact all involved labels, but this is the law right now.
On top of that, it's not even sure if all labels wil allow you to use their material for a live mix (!!!!!!!) or will allow you to make it available for download/streaming. I (sabam) guarantee that almost all labels will deny you permission to do so (!!!!!).
If you do not have all these permissions you are guilty of illegally spreading and using masterrecordings of labels (see attachment law.pdf)
This line of text prohobits pretty much anything:
"All rights reserved, unauthrorised copying hiring renting public performance and broadcasting of the record prohibited"
conclusion: EVERY mixed dj set i found on any website so far is illegal.
www.psytracks.com :: Brand new website for sharing your psytracks with the world. Get a free 250Mb Artist profile, Blog and events calender!
www.psygarden.be :: Upload your psychedelic art and partypictures to our gallery! |
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