Ok, this thread is a bit repetitive from one that was started earlier but it makes sense to keep these topics a bit apart.
This is about song structure and work-flow.
From what I can tell until now, there exist two different ways to write down a track.
1st - You make a loop or intro and work progressively through the track until you reach the end.
2nd - You lay out the main idea in form of chord progressions or other and then build up on that base.
The 1st has the problem that, most of the time, if you don't work in through in a very fast manner the story might not end in a coherent way because of brakes that one took in the production. This is a very great technique for those that have instantaneous creativity and inspiration, in my opinion.
The 2nd, which I know less, is what I would like to explore a bit more because it seams to lead to a stronger and compact storyline.
When you say: "I start my track and lay out its chord progression". What do you mean by that?
I have seen some comments that in the most and common music, I-IV-V chord progression are used, but how does that translates to a whole track?
If that chord progression is your main theme, easy answer is, you do variation of it, but that's the same answer as your question, so I will go little specific.
Let's say you sit at piano and start knocking some triad chords and you stumble upon progression that sounds good, if you are into full on, you take first notes of it and build yourself a bass, at this point typical full on artist will do exact same lead out of it, following same motion and notes, but let assume your ain't one, so you start doing your melody relying on counter point and you have your main part there.
So your intro is now playing main theme with that chord progression triad as pad for example, filtered bass, giving listeners promise, than yeah, it's now wait for it till the end moment, you start building to it, first note of your progression is your root, right, that's your bass, after that until the end you start making variations and building up to it, doing whatever you want how ever you see fitting, but main idea of progression is typically that you slowly introduce to it and that you get your main theme out of it.
But this is only one specific case, where you are full on artist that does typical full on track, but you can do whatever you want, I mean, just listen to music, you can hear what is done and how everything is evolving&progressing throughout the track, just listen, this is psytrance, just make something wort listening for 6+ minutes.
Study this track if you want
Sonica
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Posted : Apr 27, 2015 14:55
interesting perspective
your reminding me of video such as the Dance Muisic Production series on counterpoint and chord progressions..
very much worth the watch if you havnt already! Devasya Savitur
That is interesting what you have to say about the chord progression along a track.
Let me see if I understand this right.
So, in Fullon music the producer concentrates to build a chord progression at first implementing it in the intro, or maybe just a part of it so that some tension or expectation is build.
His idea is to build out the simple chord progression along the whole track, which doesn't mean that he has to play it all at once.
What do I mean by that?
He plays just a part of the progression or simple notes/melody that fits into the main theme that was first established.
Along the track he tries to build up for the last and resolving chord of the progression.
The example from Alternative Control gave me that kind of impression of what I tried to explain/understand above.
By the way, are those Production series available on Youtube?
I had a look, but only came up with the ADSR music theory tutorials, that explain a bit about chord progressions, but leave the counterpoint theory out, I think.
Thank you for the responses so far!
Analysis and Organization for Refinement
On 2015-04-27 16:41, Freymuth wrote:
So, in Fullon music the producer concentrates to build a chord progression at first implementing it in the intro, or maybe just a part of it so that some tension or expectation is build.
Yep
Quote:
His idea is to build out the simple chord progression along the whole track, which doesn't mean that he has to play it all at once.
Exactly, it's just one way to get something/spark some creativity
Quote:
What do I mean by that?
He plays just a part of the progression or simple notes/melody that fits into the main theme that was first established.
Along the track he tries to build up for the last and resolving chord of the progression.
The example from Alternative Control gave me that kind of impression of what I tried to explain/understand above.
Exactly, spot on.
Quote:
By the way, are those Production series available on Youtube?
I had a look, but only came up with the ADSR music theory tutorials, that explain a bit about chord progressions, but leave the counterpoint theory out, I think.
There's info about it around for sure, I think Mark did something on counterpoint
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Posted : May 11, 2015 17:19
ok
1. What do you mean getting a chord progression and building towards it?
Let`s say i have a chord progression with three chords, you saying that in the buildup i will introduce only the first chord or a melody based on the first chord? do i got it right?
2. Also i hear a lot of psytrance tracks that doesnt use a chord progession, only a bunch of fx and riffs that mixed together to create the track.
Xsze
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Posted : May 11, 2015 18:15
Quote:
On 2015-05-11 17:19, wildlion wrote:
ok
1. What do you mean getting a chord progression and building towards it?
Let`s say i have a chord progression with three chords, you saying that in the buildup i will introduce only the first chord or a melody based on the first chord? do i got it right?
No, i said you can build a theme/ending of a track, than introduce a theme in intro, than build whole track on expectation of that theme.
Quote:
2. Also i hear a lot of psytrance tracks that doesnt use a chord progession, only a bunch of fx and riffs that mixed together to create the track.
Whatever floats your boat, this isn't a rule, but just one way to make a theme or get some idea, you can just easily start with melody or whatever, really, whole point is to get inspiration from it, not confusion, so just do whatever you do to get inspired and work how ever you worked before.
I mean, there's track's that resolves on bass, yeah, I work like that sometimes too, I just want to make that funky bass that is heart of the track, have progression and when I have "that" bass I can build a track around it, examples of "that" bass
So this @4:00 would be first thing you would make and than build whole track to it
Okay, I needed to leave this, I mean woooottt @6:13 :cold2:
Sonica
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Posted : May 12, 2015 00:21
side chain portamentos ying yang yong time to smoke a bong
Devasya Savitur
Xsze
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Posted : May 12, 2015 07:03
Quote:
On 2015-05-12 00:21, Sonica wrote:
side chain portamentos ying yang yong time to smoke a bong
wirakocha
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Posted : May 12, 2015 22:21
Sonica
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Posted : May 12, 2015 23:30
yes - but its stil good to observe and listen in not to the tune but to certain technique to develop into your own technique its called ear evolution Devasya Savitur
Xsze
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Posted : May 13, 2015 17:42
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On 2015-05-12 22:21, wirakocha wrote:
too chessy!
Does that makes my point any less true or what?
Thanks I guess, I'm not that deep and this kind of things float my trousers on parties, could be easily some cultural thing too, our domestic music is pretty cheesy too, melodies, grooves, hands in the air, full on chaos, similar to Israel, Greece, Turkey and etc.
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On 2015-05-12 23:30, Sonica wrote:
yes - but its stil good to observe and listen in not to the tune but to certain technique to develop into your own technique its called ear evolution
Exactly
wildlion
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Posted : May 14, 2015 15:42
[quote]
On 2015-05-11 18:15, Xsze wrote:
Quote:
On 2015-05-11 17:19, wildlion wrote:
No, i said you can build a theme/ending of a track, than introduce a theme in intro, than build whole track on expectation of that theme.
yep i got that. introduce the chord progression on the intro, than playing it later with melody as the main theme of the track right
i know its all about feeling and there's no right or wrong workflow or way of writing music, what matters is the outcome of it...but, do you use any technique so while you are building the track, it fits the main chord progression you wrote firts? I know using only the notes of the chord progression would be one way, but is there anything more?
Xsze
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Posted : May 14, 2015 16:54
Quote:
On 2015-05-14 15:42, wildlion wrote:
I know using only the notes of the chord progression would be one way, but is there anything more?
To be honest with you I dropped psytrance while ago, but I like hanging out here, being into different genres after it, pretty much went after my cheesy side and more into production/engineering aspect than artistic, so dunno does my opinion counts at all
Having said all that, if you ask me, again, like you said, just do whatever you think it's good, at least in this genre you can get away with almost any random noise and anything really, if you want to know about some good techniques, than look at this, Faxi is the man
But just listen to music, it's all there, take mental notes or write them down, dunno, I noticed majority of us have that long phase of over analyzing every single sound and everything, so that's there by default, if you want to employ music theory, than learn it, if you aren't playing instrument, try that, keyboards/piano for sure, than some stuff will come naturally, maybe you will find a way to bend some rules and use them in your advance, who knows, more you invest, more you can expect to get.
But all comes down to where you are aiming, what's your priories, what sub genre are you into really?
