Trance Forum | Stats | Register | Search | Parties | Advertise | Login

There are 0 trance users currently browsing this page
Trance Forum  Forum  Trance - categorical thinking, the division of the dance music movement, and more...

1 2 Next Page →
First Page Last Page
Share on facebook Share on twitter Share on StumbleUpon
Author

categorical thinking, the division of the dance music movement, and more...

ocelot
ocelot

Started Topics :  94
Posts :  783
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 09:37
if we are to survive as a species,
if we wish to thrive and grow,
we must learn to get along
do we wish to get along?

yes, everyone has their own opinion about everything. however- for discourse to occur we must have some common ground.
do we want a common ground?

when the common discourse of a given subject is reduced to binary or trinary or x-number of "sides, teams, camps" etc... we waste our energy fighting mutually exclusive visions of the world versus trying to place our opinions in the context of a consensus reality.
this is useful when one wishes to retain ones own opinion vs "the group"
but not useful when trying to mediate debates.
do we wish to mediate debates?

categorical thinking, some have argued,
is useful for dissecting the world we live in. it has enabled us to make rough approximations in a world of infinite detail macro and micro.
however:
if the (mental) categories no longer fit the (real) phenomena then one could say they are not only useless but problematic...
are our categories blinding us to reality?

binary thinking is the heir of zorastrianism and all the monotheistic religions of the world. the basic premise is that all reality can be divided into two camps of good or evil...
do we really believe in dividing all that is into 2 sides of good and evil?

team thinking has resulted from tribalism, and is currently manifest as allegiences to sports teams, nationalism, allegiances to subcultures or styles of music, clothing, consmologies, etc...
is an "us versus them" mentality useful for all that is?

before- in the late eighties- there was, as i understand it- a singular movement where dance music was the soundtrack for a worldwide movement known as rave.
what happened to the social revolution of rave? was castlemorton really the end or did we kill it from inside through division?

different ideals and musical tastes have led to a plethora of genres which have further split into micro-genres.
is this trend going to continue?

psytrance was one genre, now many microgenres. if we allow for FullOn, Progressive, Dark, Minimal, Tech, and old School Goa, then i imagine we will need about 10 more names to categorize the new psytrance music that is being made and mislabeled as one of the pre-existing categories aforementioned.
will these subcategories be split further even? oh wait i guess they have... DarkFullOn anyone?

rather than making music that contained elements of all the tastes and preferences, we segmented our dancing music like marketing categories.
people claim they like X style and not y style regardless of individual tracks etc...
people identify with the image of a given style.
it helps reaffirm their identity.
is identity so external that we need a crutch?

today, an innovative artist would find it damn near impossible to release freeform music as the task of reaching the insular communities that each genre has become is rather difficult. this is despite the idea that maybe this freeform fusion is what the world really needs...
do you really want innovative new music?
are you prepared for it if you get it?

one of the ideals of dancemusic that I personally ascribed to was the idea of all the peoples of the world uniting in one dance.
peace through music...
i feel this vision is totally lost.
this vision can no longer come from inside the dance music movement.
maybe one big drum circle would be the only way to really bring it together...

these are my thoughts for the day..

eyerina


Started Topics :  0
Posts :  112
Posted : Feb 19, 2007 20:03
few days ago we had a discussion in our apartment/home studio about music genres and divisions and how styles begin to melt into each other. we came to a conclusion that all the music we like now can be called IDM - which is intellegent dance music, be it trance, ambient, break or whatelse, the name suits them all !

peace : )))))
Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  23
Posts :  1772
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 00:36
Genres limit creativity in my eyes, and they should be very minimal if in existence in the first place, but then comes the question of whether or not those limited genres would be good or bad, as you say dividing all existence into good and evil. I see threads here with people that are convinced that a certain subgenre of psytrance can't be above 146bpm, then I see threads like this where this "free form" concept is idealized, or at least considered. Either way I think that soon enough there will be enough "subgenres" and "subsubsubgenres" that people will get tired and call it psytrance.

I don't know. Regardless, nice thoughts.
Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  168
Posts :  2984
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 01:10
I have been working for some time now on a taxonomic theory of psychedelic trance that I wish I could simply link here, but it remains unpublished at this time... I see the problem that you speak of (and can give many examples of blind thinking that I have witnessed) but don't feel as if categorization is inherently damaging to any notion of a global dance movement. It just so happens that music is very slippery; it runs out from between your fingers, making it easier to stand at a distance and designate entire swathes as being this or that. Were we all trained as musicologists it wouldn't be so much of a problem; more people would understand that a genre fails to define music--that music defines the category, and is as immutable as the weather. I prefer to consider music in the greater context: time and place as well as sound. How useful is that if no one else is speaking the same language?

Genre names are terms of convenience. Through habitual usage they may come to compartmentalize the personal experience of music. In association with the social tendencies, it becomes all too easy for people to grow to identify with smaller and smaller segments of the community at large. Yes, it becomes an identity thing. Perhaps I myself represent an interesting kind of case study... for I enjoy it all, but feel close to very few. I have not drilled down to any niche; I remain at large, freely sampling the winding stream, fully possessed by my own fierce individuality, yet ultimately not really a part of any particular group. In that sense, I can't really comment, by direct association, on the nature of being an active participant in the culture surrounding one of these micro-genres... I can only speculate from afar as an amateur digital anthropologist.

Interesting topic anyhow...
lucid dreamer


Started Topics :  3
Posts :  39
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 04:27
it is something that has been on my mind too. when i hear such things as: 'united we stand, divided we fall', and there we are, dividing the music that is supposed to make us one...

even in parties you get the 'full-on parties' and the 'prog parties', and the people stay in their categories, the prog people don't like the full-on, the full-on people think prog is boring, etc... and i'm in the middle and i like it all and i just wish everyone could like it all too so we would make this big party with prog in the beginning, and full-on in the middle, and morning in the morning, and more prog for the comedown... variety makes it all interesting!

the words we use to describe the music are only words. but when they become boxes i think it gets too much.

i like music.
soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  875
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 06:05
Ok People! yeah you!

I think you should read this because I have a point. I'm damn sure of it!

We live in a world of specialization in which not everyone likes the same things. Accordingly, there are many things to choose from, especially in the world of art. For centuries artists have being expressing all forms of emotion through all kinds of moods and contexts. It is therefore unavoidable that some are going to get drawn to some forms of art and not others.

I think a person feels special in a moment that seems at least to have been handcrafted from the ground up just for them at that moment in time. A person also shares a special bond with others who also feel the same, therefore like characters tend to gravitate to the same areas.

When a person completely immerses themself in what they are most comfortable with, especially in group situations, morals and ideals scarcely become challenged and therefore a snobbishness grows. People start to frown upon anything that is less than ideal in ones eyes and places their own ideals on a pedistal. They are now more important than anything else because thats all the individual allows themself to believe and rarely gives themself permission to think otherwise to the point where they are constantly picking at any aspect of life less than "ideal".

I'm going to come out and say this right now. I'm not to fond of listening to full on psychedelic trance when I'm at home. I've always been into the more esoteric experimental end of things in all walks of my life. Most of what I listen to by many is termed dark, tasteless, unmusical, dronal and so on. This all goes right out of the window when I'm at a party. Progressive, full on, house, EBM, DnB... it's all amazing. I've had equally great times dancing to it all. I just love being around people and music, especially when everyones into the moment having the time of their lives the sun is shining and there really is magic in the air. The key is to just let yourself go, completely, or you won't feel the magic. You have to be ready to reach out. In this situation I LOVE full on psy, as long as it doesnt break down too much of course but to just look around you, soak up the vibe and become the moment as that monster groove rips through you, as you become someone else even. YOU can do it all.

I would get bored at a party that constantly played my CD collection back to me because I wouldnt really be experiencing anything. The party is all about the people NOT the person and involving yourself as much as you can by staying in the moment as long as you can. Do people actually stop and sit down if they hear a track they don't like? I couldn't imagine it. I'd hate to be that miserable guy whose out to ruin the vibe just because he isn't happy. It's like that kid whose just starting a new school and thinks all the kids are bastards just because he's not fitting in. If he took some time to stand outside himself and soak up the new local values he's going to have better friends and a better time in the long run. Then after they get to know him, his own personality shines through and then he, himself becomes understood.

I was going to ramble on and make myself look intelectual but it's as simple as this. Patience and understanding far outway compromise. At a party there is no excuse to not have a good time, no matter what music is playing because people are great, all of us. But we each have our different needs to create our own individual perfect moments and there is no better way to understand humanity than to dance not as yourself but as each and every one of them in their own state of perfection. I don't think it gets much more psychedelic than that.


In short it's all good.
sure_smoke_alot
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  45
Posts :  6874
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 06:40
Genres are for 'not so intellegent ppl'.           the problem with valuing art is, till u dont understand it, it's worthless but wen u do understand it, it's priceless!!
ZeRo
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  39
Posts :  802
Posted : Feb 20, 2007 19:16
neither dance nor music nor dance and music can ever be a movement. It is manifested through movement but it can never be a movement. Sorry.           ein chadash tachat hashemesh. there is nothing new under the sun. --kohelet.
rich
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  103
Posts :  2182
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 02:24
What a huge topic. Music is great and all but it's way too limited to unify everyone. It has as much chance as one religion attempting the same.
I rolled down Haight not too long ago, with Droidlock cranked and the windows down and someone yelled "trance sucks!"
So much for trance being the one music everyone would dance to to save humanity.

If we're talking idealism, my idea would be everyone dancing together, eyes closed and to a music and vibration they hear and feel in their own selves.
Outolintu
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  63
Posts :  1477
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 10:46
Quote:

On 2007-02-21 02:24, rich wrote:
If we're talking idealism, my idea would be everyone dancing together, eyes closed and to a music and vibration they hear and feel in their own selves.



-> the universe resonating in us

this is it. people being silent (at the same time), concentrating and listening to the silent sound.

          "no one ever sweats on a plug-in" -moby
ocelot
ocelot

Started Topics :  94
Posts :  783
Posted : Feb 21, 2007 23:57
ok. good points. i guess im an idealistic fool...

but really we are such dorks. subdividing the subdivisions even further?

also i hold out hope for the actual state of trance manifesting in such a way as to grab all the minds at once... versus some genre called "trance"

@ rich... probably the person on haight who said that was a trancehead just joking with you ... did you see their face? heheh maybe not tho...
do you think they heard the leads or only the kickbass and assumed it was like mars/mystere trance?
tla


Started Topics :  1
Posts :  13
Posted : Feb 22, 2007 01:21
Maybe the problem isn't that there are many ideals and musical tastes, maybe the problem is that there is a lack of ideals and defining identity?

In my opinion (admittedly based on limited experience), the electronic dance music scene in general doesn't have any strong ideals or a defining identity.

The psychedelic trance scene has one of the strongest identities (in my opinion), and is perhaps for that reason one of the least watered out scenes (anyone heard of the early 90s european ambient trance from labels such as MFS? watered out and disappeared...).

At least within the psy scene, perhaps we should strive to unite...Have more diverse parties and focus on the defining identity rather than the musical differences?
Basilisk
IsraTrance Full Member

Started Topics :  168
Posts :  2984
Posted : Feb 22, 2007 02:32
To draw a parallel from the blogging world, categories have been going out of style in favour of tags... it wouldn't take much to twist your view of things to the new paradigm; you don't even have to change the terms in use. Fuzzy boundaries are a more human way of relating to music than strict categories anyhow.
Kane
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  23
Posts :  1772
Posted : Feb 25, 2007 22:33
Quote:

On 2007-02-20 19:16, ZeRo wrote:
neither dance nor music nor dance and music can ever be a movement. It is manifested through movement but it can never be a movement. Sorry.




agreed for the most part
soulfood
IsraTrance Junior Member

Started Topics :  10
Posts :  875
Posted : Feb 26, 2007 02:06
Quote:

On 2007-02-22 01:21, tla wrote:


At least within the psy scene, perhaps we should strive to unite...Have more diverse parties and focus on the defining identity rather than the musical differences?



I thought thats kind of whats happening? Boom anybody? Oh sorry... too much dark. As if. Thats was an awsome fest!
Trance Forum  Forum  Trance - categorical thinking, the division of the dance music movement, and more...

1 2 Next Page →
First Page Last Page
Share on facebook Share on twitter Share on StumbleUpon


Copyright © 1997-2018 IsraTrance