Ellon
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Posted : Oct 14, 2009 12:28
Quote:
On 2009-10-03 19:46, Aluxe wrote:
I kind of hate all these tags doctors put on people when in the end they really don’t understand very much about it at all. It just seems like whomever is acting too crazy will be tagged with one of these “disorders” like BPD. And it’s kind of offensive I think, specially the word “disorder. I mean come on, like our society is so fucking healthy or like our mainstream medical institutions are so spiritual and enlightened. And the truth is that our doctors understand very little about these so called “disorders” and their treatments usually involve prescribing a bunch of expensive heavy powerful drugs for a lifetime without much concern for how these will affect their life in other ways. And for many of these disorders there isn’t even a clear definitive test they can do to prove you have it other than behavioral traits which can sometimes just be personality traits or just where you are at in life. I mean just because somebody is “crazier” than somebody else it doesn’t mean they have a disorder, it might only mean they have a way more issues they need to deal with, or they have a mess of connections and associations in their psyche that they need to unravel (as hard as this may seem sometimes I think its always possible). We are all unique anyways and to just so easily tag all these people with negative labels is too me wrong. Yeah and if they don’t have a disorder that fits your behavior they will just invent a new one out of the blue. How fucking convenient for them.
And let’s acknowledge that our society as whole is very much psycho and deeply imbalanced and so maybe that pushes certain individuals that might otherwise be healthy and gifted because of their extra sensitivity to act in extreme and imbalanced ways. So if this is the case these people are maybe just red flags to a problem we have as society and it may be why the world is so troubled in so many ways, like our collective brain is the one that has a disorder. But regardless who are we to judge and hang on people a negative label as if they are supposed to carry it on their face wherever they go as if it represents who they are? I don’t think we are qualified for that. And as soon as you put a label to somebody you will stop looking at the person, and instead you will be looking at the label. Instead of thinking of the person in terms of their personality and issues and mind traits you will just say oh he/she is bipolar as if that explains to you everything. It’s a bunch of bullshit honestly.
I say if you are going to look down on someone and tag them with a label you better come from a real position of TRUE knowledge, wisdom and heart. Not just some asswipe dressed in a doctor suit drinking his coffee while tagging whole groups of people with a negative label without any awareness of how this can affect people. I mean are these the doctors that are supposedly going to heal us?
As for a solution I would bet more on the people of wisdom like shamans, the yogis, or in that case medical doctors but with a spiritual grounded heart that can think beyond just prescribing a bunch of heavy drugs to dose the "crazy" person. Also I think our society has to finally cross into a new age where we reconnect with our psychic aspects because that’s where a lot of this shit comes from and if we understand it then we will be able to heal many of these so called disorders.
“It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society.” Krishnamurti
I like your words as i agree with them. Still there are people who suffer from "disorders" which can be very harmful for the ones who live with them. EX: husband/Wife situation or a Mother/father towards a son/daughter or the opposite.
rich
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Posted : Oct 14, 2009 18:37
@Ellon: Absolutely. Thanks for clarifying.
@Moki: " taking care for disorders by means of the science of the soul"
This intrigues me. If you Moki, have time, or someone could elaborate on what this is and what it entails. D souls have a scientific structure? Not sure what this means.
Remember to some, there is no such things as a 'soul'. How would this science of the soul be explained to them?
On a side note, and may be related, I practice something called the latihan kedjiwa'an. Which is essentially, 'exercise of the soul'. I can tell more about that in another topic maybe.
RaDioAcTiVe AcIdHeAd
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 06:31
@rich.. how can u say there is no soul and at the same time u practice the Lathihan which is exercise of the soul (maybe u can open anothe rtopic for it... its good to know more abt it)...
and wat Moki says is true... many (maybe not all) of our issues now in this life are related to the soul and also ur previous lives... its been also realized thru many experiments that some physical ailments are also related to past lives...
Also wanna note that the shamans exactly do the same... they cure ur soul... they don give u medicine.. even if they do its all herbs n plants for minor issues... and psychedelics or induced trance state to access ur soul while curing... for major issues
Even hypnotherapy kinda does the same... My wife practices and is studying hypnotherapy... she also learning past life regression... there are many cases... also many cured cases... Most of the not cured ones are because the patient lacks consistency or doesnt not want to wait till the results show up... its not like english medicine to show immediate pseudo results...
Regarding hypnotherapy u can try books from Brian Weiss... he's got few books on them... really good...
?
Aluxe
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 07:46
Thanks for your words Moki
Hey Rich and others, I know from first hand experience that these mental problems are real, trust me I KNOW how hard it can get. It’s just that I am not at all satisfied with the general approach of our medical institutions in treating these problems because I feel it lacks the spiritual perspective of shamans and yogis that is far more in touch with the different dimensions we can travel to through counsciousness and all the hidden energies inside us and how to awaken these to heal, to transcend problems and to reach higher states of well being. And in my view real doctors should try and connect you with these energies and only resort to prescribing medications as a last or temporary solution.
But it’s obvious to me that the medical institutions are not really seeking for the greater truth or a more enlightened solution to our health problems and the current trends are to prescribe meds for everything. And how can we trust the medical institutions when they are in many ways manipulated by gigantic corporations that manufacture all these drugs? So there again we have the same dysfunctional aspects of our society carrying over into the health issue and polluting it on many different levels.
And yeah I don’t like the negative terms used to describe some of these mental problems however this does not mean I am suggesting we ignore that these mental issues exist, that’s not what I am saying. I just feel we should not add ANY negative stigma to the plate, even with terms such as “disorder”, because it just adds more weight on those struggling with these problems and pollutes what could be a more pure and healing approach to the issue.
And then again who knows, maybe it’s our fucked up society triggering certain people that would otherwise be alright in a more compassionate, sensitive and enlightened society. Like look at this world, how could anybody truly sane open their eyes and not feel slightly unbalanced or out of place within the mess we have in this world? But don’t get me wrong, I am not minimizing the issue here and some of these people struggling with extreme mental states really need help. I know that! But I do not want to make these people outcasts and I also do not want to wash myself from the responsibility because maybe we are all part of the problem. Like if our attitudes changed, if our hearts were not so judgemental, if we were more accepting and receptive and compassionate maybe many of these people would not feel so threatened or even triggered into these extreme states in the first place.
Regardless I feel that together as a society we can manifest whatever we want, and heal any disease we want. I really believe that!
rich
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 19:49
@RaDioAcTiVe AcIdHeAd: I myself do believe in such thing as soul, I was just saying what about those who don't believe in such a thing.
@Aluxe: We're in agreement regarding all of that
To both points, you have to realize there are billions of people in this world and they're all at varying stages of consciousness developement. For society to be able to heal itself, it would entail the majority to be at a certain consciousness, right? So, is that possible? What will it take?
Xolvexs
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 21:11
personality is not a country so there are no borders and in absence of borders borderlines do not mean anything. there's nothing wrong with you being yourself at any given point.
Personality is about knowing who you are not what you should be.
i have been told that i am passive aggressive...what the hell is passive aggressive? you are using two opposite words to describe me? and then telling me that i have borderline personality disorder? yes there is a border between being passive and being aggressive..at times i am passive at times i am aggressive...duh i will behave differently when you put me in middle of party with trance music than i would at a opera or mozart symphony...personality is like water....it takes the shape of the surronding and reacts accordingly...the great Bruce Lee speaks about it
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
rich
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 21:54
X, I had the same attitude toward these things until I had first hand experience with someone who affected my life and the life of my kids by crossing 'borders'. It's just not cool and causes a lot of hurt and pain and for the kids, doesn't help them grow to be emotionally healthy human beings.
btw, I'm also called passive aggressive and manipulative and I get defensive about that. But when I see how it affects my relationships with people that I love, it's something I want to work on. Yes it's me, but how can I be a better me? Who wouldn't want that?
but you know all this
Freeflow
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Posted : Oct 15, 2009 23:09
yeah be water! Bruce lee is a legend...
No matter what we are, we all have a childhood and many things are shaped in us during this time.... things that will effect us when we grow up and relate to others.
We all have our problems! but we all have tools to get over these problems and get more insight about our selfs...
If we think about the water analogy, you can say that when you are born you are poured into your mind and body and you become you as you are shaped by the things you experience, so you cant be nobody else but that..
except your gentic code and things you inherit by genes.
As bruce says, if water are poured into a cup it becomes the cup!
we can be water in our minds to some extent but we still need a vehicle, lets say a canoe and a oar to row with, as our mind, body and soul is a unity somethings will take the punch when we crash into a rock or something, taking into consideration about the ego who is very sensitive for crashings, and it has a strong voice inside of use and we should not dismiss it and suppress it.
Im not well read in how the psyche works and i only make my own theory about it..if you feel you can expand on my thoughts feel free and give me your view
And to add
I think that breathing is the solution to many things!
breath deep and breath less...
read about the Buteyko method
Freeflow
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Posted : Nov 18, 2009 01:54
On 2009-10-02 11:26, Moki.Time.Wave.Zero wrote:
i am having a perfect psychic health, thanks for being concerned:-).
ok that should have been added to the best of moki quotes
shahar
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Posted : Nov 24, 2009 20:20
Very nice and interesting discussion here, thanks for all who wrote (except for the last one...).
Mental illness can be very real. The question of whether someone is mentally ill or just not living by society's norms is irrelevant.
The real question is if that someone can function within society without hurting himself and/or others too much.
A psychiatrist who manages a mental hospital who I really learned to respect once told me his truth. He said that psychiatrists have not really got a clue what they are doing when prescribing psychiatric drugs. He said that he just sees someone who suffers so much and when nothing else can help, tries his best to help them. He was an amazing person and very dedicated to his patients whom he treated with so much respect and love.
---------------------------------------------
"Be the change you want to see in the world!"
M.K. Gandhi
"There is only one corner of the universe you can be certain of improving, and that's your own self."
Aldous Huxley
RaDioAcTiVe AcIdHeAd
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Posted : Nov 25, 2009 08:14
Psychiatry an Industry of Death
?
Freeflow
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Posted : Nov 25, 2009 10:14
Quote:
On 2009-11-25 08:14, RaDioAcTiVe AcIdHeAd wrote:
Psychiatry an Industry of Death
Wow! and now i come to think of it!
What is going on is that the real ill people take jobs at institutions and rape and beat people that are forced by law to be there...
All sorts of wackos that work in those places, this also tells that there must be some real whack psychiatrist also..
One day i was walking with my mom and little sister from the grocery store and i felt as we were being followed, so i stopped and look behind us, there was this dude following us, so i turned around and walked against him, and he started walking the other way, i thought hmm,strange, so i followed him and he jumped into his car(that was parked outside the store), i took his reg plate, called the place where you can find out who owns the car... guess what, this dude worked at a institution! haha freaky fuckers...
Here in sweden its a lot of talk about it, some of these places have horror stories from youths...
When i went to high school i was at a boarding school and we lived in old mental asylum! that was some scary place to live! haha And all the stories about it..
RaDioAcTiVe AcIdHeAd
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Posted : Dec 3, 2009 04:20
yeah its scary n crazy...?
Xolvexs
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Posted : Dec 3, 2009 09:55
personality disorders exist on both sides of the border..the question is why do u believe what someone else thinks of you?
When death comes to your doorstep, make sure you are alive
