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Book reviews and/or advice
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 11, 2010 20:22
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 11:02
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@ greede. Dude -
Its not a good book from the point of view of someone who has seen much better books. Isn't that a sufficient reason to make it bad?
Secondly - These guys never learn anything unique by copying. And thats where they will stay, never progressing to being original. At some point you have to kick away the crutch, and that just doesn't happen. Too bad, so sad.
Also - For any customer base the concepts in the book are better covered in others.
Doesn't make sense to you? That's not my problem.
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 11:12
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greede
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
82
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 14:25
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@ bukboy
Have you actually read the original post?
"Book reviews and/or advice" I dont feel that you've offerd either!
What you've actually done is just moan about the the psy scene, slated offer peoples suggestions and and offerd none of your own.
If you didn't like the book and felt so strongly about it that you felt the need to chime in to say it was crap, why not give a helpful detailed reason for not liking it and then give a suggestion of your own?
I too have read better books about certain subjects and have listed them in this post.
I have already stated my reasons why I thought the Dance music manual would be good for Carl. If you can think of reasons why it wouldn't then why not let him know what those reasons are...
On a separate subject that you felt the need to bring up,
I never said people learn to be original by copying, but people can learn certain skills by it and then develop those skills further.
Maybe you can suggest a mass produced book on how to be original?
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 15:48
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@ greede. I already suggested a much better book. Check it out. It teaches some very important concepts which will allow people to make much more consistent and proficient music. And in so doing release their inner creativity.
Do you then have an objective reason for disliking my post?
I have slated bad suggestions as a waste of money. Snoman is just scamming people. If you can't see that, then don't be resentful of people who do. If you're that set on the book, then you should be entirely capable of taking my criticism of it with a pinch of salt and ignoring me.
Also - there are other books which teach you to be creative and how to evolve your own style and originality. Look up jazz improvisation as a start.
Will take you a lot farther than a book or video tutorial on how to make a bass, perc and squawk.
Personally I feel that psy's best days are over. Initially the scene attracted musical talent from outside, of people who knew what a harmonic progression is, of what tension, flow and anticipation is, and were willing to express their characteristic qualities in the psy style. Now the fledgling artists have completely missed the point, that it took actual musical skill to make decent music and are instead settling for the cheapest and easiest tricks of psy of how to make a bass, and perc, and squawk. What has resulted is a giant worldwide cacophony mishmash of self spreading dwaf dwaf squawk. Its actually quite pathetic to watch.
The old psyheads miss the old parties. They ask questions like - "What is this Shit?!" and say "Just because its new, doesnt mean its good!"
Im sorry if I offended you Greede. It was not my intention to be offensive, just offer a critical and neutral viewpoint. |
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greede
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
82
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 16:29
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Quote:
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On 2010-01-12 15:48, bukboy wrote:
@ greede. I already suggested a much better book. Check it out. It teaches some very important concepts which will allow people to make much more consistent and proficient music. And in so doing release their inner creativity.
Do you then have an objective reason for disliking my post?
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No, infact I appreciate the recomendation.
That is not the post I was refering to...
This was
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On 2010-01-09 20:30, bukboy wrote:
I think that 90% of the trance producers don't really have any musical background, so Snoman's book looks good coz they don't know any better.
90% of psy "artists" have no idea how to do anything besides make a fullon bass and put some percs and squidgies and squawks over it.
Because 90% of the artists in psy dont bother learning, they rely on copying each other which is why 90% of psy sounds the same.
90% of the psy artists dont make any money, coz no-one thinks they deserve any, and the other 10% who sound at least a little unique scrape together a very modest living off gigs. Which is why nobody bothers investing in psy in the first place.
Thats my theory why 90% of guys reckon Snomans book is great. Its actually really crap. I bought it, read it once, and instantly forgot it.
P.S. I wanted to make psy, I dont anymore, Im trying to sell my controller. Its not worth the day job effort it takes to be good.
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Quote:
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On 2010-01-12 15:48, bukboy wrote:
I have slated bad suggestions as a waste of money. Snoman is just scamming people. If you can't see that, then don't be resentful of people who do. If you're that set on the book, then you should be entirely capable of taking my criticism of it with a pinch of salt and ignoring me.
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I am not resentful of your ability to see something I do not, I am just asking you to explain what it is you see, which you still have not as yet.
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On 2010-01-12 15:48, bukboy wrote:
Also - there are other books which teach you to be creative and how to evolve your own style and originality. Look up jazz improvisation as a start.
Will take you a lot farther than a book or video tutorial on how to make a bass, perc and squawk.
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Once again, thanks for the recomendation, but while this book will definitely improve someones music composition skills it will not help them in making a bass, perc, squawk or in any other area of music programming/production.
A music theory book is no substitute for a book on music production.
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On 2010-01-12 15:48, bukboy wrote:
Im sorry if I offended you Greede. It was not my intention to be offensive, just offer a critical and neutral viewpoint.
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No problem, I was not offended, I was mearly responding in the tone to which you set.
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 19:35
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Xenomorph Album sounds very good!
Eyy Bukboy maybe a was a little harsh with you.
Must say that i agree with you, having some time to think...
The thing is that im in a phase where i look at one thing from so many perspectives that it gets me dizzy and all i can come up with is that there are no real good answer, everything is so dependent of a scenario and on which level you choose to look at. Its like thinking about the world and universe like a Russian Doll. all these layers...
lets take away the esoteric and mystic about music, and just leave us with the tone systems, rhythms and all the ways we can put these together. Like math.
So there are formulas that has been used over and over again...
thats a fact. But i must be optimistic and believe that there are still ways to put together interesting sounds and rhythms without sounding like 90% of everyone else.... Still we have the basic fundamentals of music, though sometimes different for different cultures.
But they share in common that they evoke emotion, sometimes clearly communicate this emotion to everyone, sometimes free for interpret.
i think glory days come and go, dont you? otherwise it would be a very sad thing... and the music that is recorded is here to stay as long as we take care of it and dont let it slip away...
Also to get back on music, Some music has its seriousness/seriousity. you can really hear that its serious stuff, no jokes and stuff... Music that is meant to be entertaining often has a hint of cheese, a easy going silly vibe... you know smile and be happy, maybe sometimes a little fake...and sometimes not, just a good nice smile cause its so damn good... nothing silly about it, just a happy vibe
So there are so many ways too look at it, and i dont think its necessary to judge just acknowledge that its like this and we choose if we want to be Very serious, serious, not so serious, and crossing the boarder being both a little serious and playful, to playful and a little silly... to joking, and very joking...
you know like black and white but everything in between.... Everything has its place...
=)
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carl.schutte
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
35
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 19:43
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So true freeflow... life is not black & white.
The true beauty is in many shades in between... |
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carl.schutte
Started Topics :
4
Posts :
35
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 19:54
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Thanks Freeflow; I'll have to download these at work... not much bandwidth left at home.
Can't wait though!
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greede
Started Topics :
9
Posts :
82
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 20:14
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I think that one of the reasons why alot of music sounds the same is because as soon as someone makes something different someone tags a new genre to it, then people jump on board and try to make that genre.
If anyone asks me what music I make/play, I just say house music. As soon as you start to say Tech,minimal,funky.. ect you restrict your creativity to a specific sound. |
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 20:36
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I say i make music in my house! 
what ever comes to mind....
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 23:16
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Freeflow - I think its not a case of come and gone, with a next coming to look forward to.
The scene has devolved. What was a lively growing atmosphere of expression and exploration has been subverted by the lowest human instinct. The need to feed off each other.
The dispassionate neutral talent has all left. Rip Dark Soho. And now all that's left is bottom feeders infecting each other with the same death philosophy.
I think its a beautifully demonstrative case study in the DEADLY effects of the misguided applied Ubuntu philosophy.
When you remove the cutthroat competition people, there's no more progress.
You guys can argue and apologise for psy all you like. Thats what I see.
Not to say there arent benefits. Greede says its now a platform for beginning artists. I hope that are only leeching basic info on how to produce a bass and kick with impact, which psy does well, before they move on to better things. How altruistic.
I dont believe that any spirit will return until people start complaining to the party organisers for not avoiding amateurs and "pretend" professionals.
Rant Rant Rant 
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Freeflow
IsraTrance Full Member
Started Topics :
60
Posts :
3709
Posted : Jan 12, 2010 23:57
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bukboy - you choose to look at it this way
The need to dance to good music will always be there..
Those who chooseŽn quick carriers will fade away..
People change, get older, find new meanings.
Some try to find a living.
Lots of the old music we like is made out of passion, passion of creation, unique and innovative! Still its psytrance/goatrance... this is a fact you cant dismiss.
but it can be funky, straight, jumpy and pumpy, groovy, weird, strange, mad, melodic, harmonic, happy, sad, bad. big, bold, ect ect. one more fact is that psytrance is very open to fusion, be it good or bad, its still open for it.
The balance is you and i.
I know you are interested in music, first of all you have shown me some excellent papers on the study of music. And you are still here to discuss, even if you like to be the most cynical around you are still here...
If you like to tweak sounds and create soundscapes, challenging rhythms and find good flow... you dont have to care a tad bit about anything else than to do that....
If you look at this section you find lots of posts "How to do this sound" If you go and listen in the workshop you find half the tracks are copycats, sounds that are so cliche and boring that its BORING!
Lets not use this as our competition, there are lots of people that makes great stuff... go listen to them, they create their own journey.... thats how it should be
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nonseq
Started Topics :
0
Posts :
18
Posted : Jan 15, 2010 23:35
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'genre' thinking is just depressing (sooner or later)... |
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bukboy
Hyperboreans
Started Topics :
40
Posts :
803
Posted : Jan 16, 2010 21:07
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So dudes. Can you please explain this genre thinking concept to me? |
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